@ Greg & Keith
The issue on my lens is maybe not the same than Bruce's, but it's an issue, indeed.
Don't you see that the focus is going to the background when zooming out.
I've observed that it occurs between 15mm and 10mm focals.
According to the stills made with the Z7, I do not see the sharpness on the center subjects on the wide shots.
Please someone tell me that I'm not alone to see that back focus issue. ;)

Yes, I do see that now that I understand the context of the pictures you posted. But that might be a different issue altogether (though they are both back focus problems). In my tests with my camera, I don't have these problems. It does sound like there is a quality control issue with the lenses.

Keith

I'm wondering if there is a correlation with the serial numbers and the back focus issue? It does seem that there are quite a few people with the problem, but then there are others saying that they don't have the issues so apparently it is not present across the board. I really want to buy this camera but I'm just afraid.

Update - Owners Need To Read This
 

1 > If you are having focusing issues pertaining to the manual focus as I had written about in the previous post, YOU MUST LET ME KNOW ASAP. If you are having this problem, reply with information on what setup you used and/or samples. If not, post as well.

2 > Bruce and I are overnighting our cameras to Sony and they are having a tech from Japan fly in to examine these issues.

3 > I will update everyone as applicable but probably not until the middle of next week.

PLEASE ONLY POST IF YOU ARE AN OWNER OF THIS CAMERA AND HAVE RESULTS REGARDING THE ISSUE AT HAND. I NEED TO CREATE A LIST OF WHO HAS THE PROBLEM AND WHO DOES NOT AS PER SONY'S REQUEST. IF THIS DOES NOT GET DONE IT WILL NOT GET RECTIFIED.

====== Info regarding issue:::

Zoom in on objects that have a similar focal distance with regards to where they are....makes sense....focus on the center object at full telephoto and zoom out. The left-most area will appear blurred. Zoom back in and pan to any of these objects and they are in focus. The concept is simple and if you don't understand, think of it this way - if you film a wedding and zoom into a bride/groom in the center aisle, the zoom out, the left side will be out of focus whereas the center and right will be in focus. But, if you zoom back in, the focus is intact. That's a serious problem.

Here's a link for the non-believers or whatever....

http://rapidshare.com/files/108111585/test002.wmv.html - I am not leaving this link up for too long.
http://www.vimeo.com/908039
It's 89 seconds long. Can't be more obvious. Consistent on ALL cameras. (ref:glimmer)

Dont forget you have to open your iris all the way to 1.8-2.0 when you are at telephoto 75-80%. If you get way overexposed just turn your ND filters on an if that is not enough then start raising your shutter speed. If you have plenty of light your auto controls will never reach these settings. If you hav elow light like a reception then your camera will get to these settings, which is why it is important to resolve these issues because low light footage is tough enough to deal with blurring it makes it look crappier. For any film look folk this is critical because this is where you live in your camera when generating shallow DOF (ref:bruceo)


======



Call / PM / email / Post with questions.


mll

Hi
I just joined. What a great forum.

I have a Z7; I'm from the UK so it's a Z7E. I had exactly the problem you're talking about.

When I got the camera it seemed fine... I took the lens off and fitted an adapter (Les Bosher) for my Nikon lenses, had a play, then replaced the Zeiss and did some test shooting. I got the 'blur problem' and pretty much freaked out. (What have I bought!?) It's not a slight degradation... it's immediately obvious on a larger screen. (Left side blur and general lack of sharpness.) I did some tests at different apertures, and did reference shots with my matching length Nikons. The aperture made little difference to the effect, in my judgment.

The point is, after taking the zoom off and putting it back on, the problem went away. Indeed, I've tried to replicate it (using the method outlined here) and I can't. My Zeiss lens is now sharp edge to edge.

I'm no expert, but I feel there may be a way to fix this lens to the body that means it looks and feels right, but it's a bit skewed. That would match the problems of side focus. I've looked and can't see how that could happen...

There is a problem here that needs some attention from Sony. Thanks for raising this. However, it might be worth having a try with removing and replacing the lens. I know that I need to fiddle it into position with a final fraction of an inch at the end. (Not trying to teach anyone how to fix a lens, just suggesting something...)

PS. I won't post my shots as they are just the same as the others here. I've got test frames showing a comparison of the Zeiss against my matching length Nikon. I'll put that in another thread to keep this clear. (BTW the Zeiss wins!)


www.henrypeplow.com
http://web.mac.com/hpeplow

berkshireav.com/test.wmv

Here's just a short quick test. Aperture full open. Focused and then zoomed out to 80%.

kdbf

You need to zoom in and properly manual focus and then zoom out, so the initial focal point is consistent. What you showed really doesn't illustrate the issue......

I zoomed in and focused before the beginning of the clip. Everything was manual. The reason you don't see the issue is because it does not happen with my lens.

Perhaps, but for the purpose of finding out if your camera is affected or not, you need to have a more controlled setup.

If you're going to focus on your vehicle as you did in the sample clip, use a tripod to get a more solid shot, zoom in and focus, having the iris yield a 2.0 F-stop...zoom out, and check focus. Try to get enough immediate objects on the same focal plane. If you're using the car mfg. emblem, there's not too much for the sake of this test to determine the results by, based on the car curviture and red brake lights.

The only thing I would add is that if someone has no issues with their lens ... great for them. But I'm assuming that at this point with cameras being sent in it's more important for those of us who actually DO have a problem to make it known ... and mine most certainly does.

True....we've been trying to figure out, at least for now, if it's based on certain runs, batches, resellers, or whatever else, but it's very sporadic at this point for both the Z7U and Z7E as well as place of and time of purchase. I'll know more Wed/Thurs of next week. As of this particular post, I've got about 25 with the problem and two without...I question the two without.

MY post from other thread
 

I've been working with Dominic at Sony in New Jersery since the 2nd week in march, I got one of the 1st cameras and my friend got 2 and we both have trouble with CF card glitzes and auto focus, SN on my camera 100110 his was close to this, Sony asked me to send my camera in so I did--here's my post --Marshall keep up the good work and maybe we can get this fixed
Sony finally had me send them my Z7U

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

After posting video from my CF card for Sony to see and also sending m2t clips to Dominic he had me ship my camera to him on thursday. They tried with their cameras to duplicate my CF card promblem---on short clips digital glitzes in the last of a clip or the 1st of a clip -- but theirs worked fine, which is a good thing, at least I know recording short clips does work-- and also the auto focus promblem. I went outside and recorded a lot of short clips--35of which 23 were bad ones, and also I recorded the auto focus promblem all on the CF card and sent camera, CF unit to them to test. When I find something out I will post it on this forum.

April 19th and I can't see footage from either of these links. The Vimeo is protected and the rapidshare won't let me enter all the digits to the access codes.

try the vimeo link again. by default they're protected....

What if I hosted the video. Then we won't have these access problems. Marshall, I'm sending you an email with our FTP upload account info now. The address I have for you is at comcast dot net. If that's not the right one then please contact me, chris at dvinfo dot net.

1. Download the file www.dvinfo.net/media/sony/test002.wmx

2. Re-name the file extension from .wmx to .wmv

3. Open locally with any .wmv-capable media player.

New test . . .
 

New test:

First, I wonder how well the Z7U does its back flange set up. I've tried to get good focus AFTER repeatedly doing the back flange setup - both manually and in auto. What is the best way to do the black flange setup?

The problem I'm finding is the camera (I have two of them) can't hold the focus from telephoto to wide without going soft. Even though the cam has back focus adjustment -- it still seems to have back focus problems.

Once I finish testing, I will throw some pics up if they prove to be conclusive. But what I'm finding is that if I focus on a small object (approx. 8 ft. from camera) and use expanded focus to get a really sharp image at tele, it looks quite soft when zooming out. Note: I set my camera’s distance read out to feel instead of metres.

Try this to check your Z7's: Shoot object 8' from camera. I shot with iris open at 2.0 (tele). MANUAL focus on object at telephoto and then zoom out. After going wide (either all the way or at least past half way out) change the focus in 1/2 foot increments starting at 2.5' then 3.0', 3.5' etc. Upon playback you might find that an object located 8' from camera MIGHT look better focused when the camera focus is set to 13' or 22' for example. This is what I'm finding. I've found this to be the case with the V1U camcorder -- but it was a fixed lens camera. Why is this happening with the HVR-Z7U's?

Another way to show this problem is to zoom out from tele about 1/3 to ½ way toward wide. At this point try to obtain the BEST focus you can (you might need a good monitor to do this effectively) and then zoom back to tele. If you cameras are like my two you will see that the image is soft.

Any feedback would be helpful to me and others with this issue (and Sony I hope).

Ian

Ian,

I don't own the camera, but at NAB I was doing this exact same test and finding the same issue on the demo camera there. I asked asked about it until they got an "engineer" who did a few back focus tests only to continue to have the problem. He finally took the lens off and reset it. He said the the lens had not been tightened down completely and that at times he has seen them come just a bit loose and not completely tight all the way. It never appeared to be loose to me, but this fixed the problem completely. I dont think this is related to the other lens issues, but perhaps this might be of help for yours.
Andy

Ian I have the same issue, please post stills from the memorystick to show your issue.

In my case, I sent the camera back to a Sony tech. He said all was ok.

Sony don't want to accept that issue for the moment.

Yesterday I installed a Fujinon 17x5.5 on my Z7 and all was ok after having set the real back focus ring on the Fujinon lens.

Suggestion, Turn off macro when adjusting back-focus
 

macro shifts the lens groups in lens and may interfere with proper back-focus adjustment

Thanks for the suggestion of turning off Marco. This is one of the first things I did after noticing the issue. The back focus problem is there if marco is left to its default "on" or turned off.

Thanks again . . .

Ian

Carefully inspect the lens-mounting flange and lens, then a check must be made on the rear element of a lens for any mis alignment to the camera focal plane

I don't understand why people are trying to make this problem out as a back focus problem, my understanding of back focus doesn't have anything to do with the problem described by the users on this thread. Mounting the lens correctly doesn't have anything to do with an anomaly that renders part of the frame softer than other parts of the frame. To me, this describes a lens that is fundamentally malfunctioning and isn't up to spec.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but from Bruce's and Marshall's description, zooming out full wide doesn't exhibit any noticeable anomaly, that it is in the range of 70-80% tele. Also, doing the back focus flange adjustment as per described by the manual in camera doesn't fix the problem. That would eliminate the possibility of a back focus issue, and thus we have a lens that isn't working the way any of us would expect it too.

As for me, this issue is the only thing that is holding me back from buying this cam and I am not really interested in any other cameras at the moment. I would greatly appreciate any update on this. Thanks in advance.

Count me in...
 

We've had our Z7U for a little over a month now but had not come across this problem yet since we haven't really stretched it's legs yet. We've got a shoot booked next week where we were are needing to employ narrow DOF. So this issue makes me a bit nervous.

I've been keeping my eye on this thread the last couple of days and finally got around to doing the test myself. Below is are links to the stills including an enhanced comparison of the left, center and right areas of the frame.

http://img88.imageshack.us/my.php?im...camtestpi7.jpg
http://img370.imageshack.us/my.php?i...comparesg1.jpg

I guess you can count me in as one of the problem cases. I'll be talking to my local reseller but I would appreciate being kept in the loop on any response from Sony.

Thank you Bruce and Marshall for spearheading this issue for us.

Sony's Reaction
 

My prediction is that Sony is going to say this is normal for the lens and they will not do anything about it. Marshall has been working 25/7 on some of these issues and I appreciate it, but I would be pleasantly surprised if Sony even agrees there are any issues or problems.

Bruce

Got the "repaired" cam in.... The left side does not blur, but now any blacks on the right side are grey. Move the focus chart to the left and the black is black move it to the right and it turns hazy grey.

Hmmm... having said I thought the problem had gone away, I did some more tests and found it's still there. (The blur at wide end of the zoom, exactly as outlined in this thread.) I sent some stills to Sony PrimeSupport in the UK and they accepted it was a problem over the phone. They are forwarding the tests to Japan for comment. I should hear on Tuesday/Wednesday.

Thanks to all those pushing to get this sorted.

Left object, upper-left spoke has more CA than any other part of the image.

While it's normal for there to be CA -- it should be symetrical around the center.

anything new on this thread, i have been seeing a overall softness to our images and i am trying to think if i should change manufacturers or is there a "sony" fix
joe

Any News? Anyone fixed the problem completely?
 

This thread appears to have died... Any news on what is going on with the lens issue? I'm pretty sure my camera has the same problem, there is definitely some blurring on the left side of the lens when zoomed all the way out. Has SONY acknowledged the problem? and are they fixing it?

Max Carlson,

Register you camera on Sony's website, if you haven't already, with the model number, serial number, etc. Then contact Sony Repair service center (for you, in California) and ship your camera to Sony for lens repair. I am told it only takes a couple weeks and Sony will repair the lens focus problems that have plagued the early versions of this camera. Good luck.

Sony has had both of my Z7 cams back several times. They have had 1 of them right now for 2 weeks and are supposedly sending me a new replacement, we'll see if it fares any better. I actually just went back to the Z1 as my primary cam on the last 2 shoots since the Z7 hasn't shown much benefit over the Z1 to me up to this point.

how did you find going back to your Z1 Bruce

Off the top of my head.....

Image wise they have seemed to be pretty much the same except in dark situations at telephoto where the Z7 stops to 2.0 and Z1 stops to 2.8. The built in lens of the Z1 zooms and focuses manually on servo MUCH faster than the Z7 which is a necessity for Lanc and run and gun use. I find on shoots I am getting to my composition and sharp focus several seconds or more faster than the Z7 which is big for me. I can use the CO zoom thru WA bayonet mount on the Z1 and the fact that Sony changed the 72MM bayonet mount on the Z7 so you can't use Z1 72MM adapters is bullcrap in itself much less the fact that you still can't even get a proper WA adapter for it months after release.

Z1 uses color peaking and Z7 downgrades to Wite/Black only which is virtually useless on the tiny & glossy LCD screen. Yeah it is nice that there are more pixels on the screen, but with the small size, gloss and useless black peaking all the screen does is trick you into thinking you are in focus when you are not. IMO the larger LCD on the Z1 and red peaking trump the Z7 yet again.

I like the CF recorder, but SONY Vegas doesn't work well at all with them, so even though I was one of the first to take delivery of these cams I still have to capture all the tapes anyway. The CF also gets hot as fire, which is why I think the extended batteries run time is significantly shorter than on the Z1.

Actually on the last 2 shoots the only thing I recall missing from the Z7 is the live histogram.

I noticed on the Z1 when zoomed in the iris decreases i have had it go below 2.8 i wonder is there anyway to disable this so you can open the iris all the way
I have always been using a pro lens and could always zoom in and open the iris to what i liked so when i picked up a z1 or z7 for the first time i thought i was doing something wrong but i guess i wasn't

Rob

Vortex Video
 

I had some general concerns as well, however, after purchasing and watching the Z7U Instructional video from Vortex Media, I felt real comfortable with the camera.

I think thats how it is, the more you zoom in the darker it gets.