Re: EA50 - B camera ideas
 

Jos,

You said “your plan is to get a Canon and a Sony” and adjust them to be a matched set. That is beyond my comprehension. If you have not made the purchase yet, why would you set yourself up from the start with a poor match? Electronic compensation is not a good solution for me.

I have fifteen years of experience working on video projects of all budget types. When we are working in a truly professional environment with broadcast cameras, CCUs, and a proper budget mismatching does not exist. We never hand an editor or client a bunch of footage and say “Oh by the way, it all came out of good cameras, but you will need to adjust them all in post”. It just does not happen. These days, with everything a NLE can do, and the cameras abilities to adjust, it may be tempting to rely on technology. But in my experience that is still the realm of the semi-pro or amateur. Professionals get it right in the acquisition phase. And that is not hard for us to do when budgets are small and we are working with pro-summer gear.

So Jos, I am not picking on you…..I AM questioning your choice of cameras you have not purchased yet. Save yourself now, before you take the plunge.

Steve

Re: EA50 - B camera ideas
 

Hi Steven,

No offence, and I fully understand your helpfullnes. But I might have been unclear. I have no intention of match anything in post. This would be a clean disaster, as you describe.

I had a XA10 end a Panasonic before, and they where matched up as cameras. What I did was tweak the picture profile of the Panasonic HMC151 to match the Canon XA10. This worked nicely. I had another profile matching a Sony.

I am doing events and stage performances with one total camera and one for close ups. The Canon XA10 was doing the total shots . And here the sharpness was an extra help here. I did borrow a EA50 before my cameras was nicked to see if I could tweek the profiles to match. And it was indeed possible.

I will be doing corporate video as well and the EA50 on its own are very nice for that. Especially as I have some emount optics.

But I have just been able to try a XA25 today and Canon seems to have seriously improved the image quality, so it might not as easy to match the two cameras.

The best

Re: EA50 - B camera ideas
 

Hi Steve, I too own both an EA50 and a VG30 plus a CX730. I love the VG30, however, I don't always find it to be the perfect match to the EA50 as I have dampened the colours a little using the picture profiles on the EA50 and I can't do that with the Vg30 and so am left with its rather high contrast image. I am talking with Schneider about the possibilty of them making me a 1/2 Digicon filter that Craig has referred to and they can do so for $140 but so far only offered me a 67 or 72mm thread and I want a 49mm for my 35/1.8 that normally sits on this camera. How do you get around the problem, perhaps you don't bother with the PP on the EA50? Do you have the cinematone turned on or off on the Vg30?

Re: EA50 - B camera ideas
 

James, why don't you simply use a filter thread adapter on your lens? (ie: 49mm>67mm) I use them all the time as one of my Heliopan Skylights is 67mm and I adapt it to the 40.5 thread on the SEL16-50mm motor zoom.

Re: EA50 - B camera ideas
 

James, what preset do you need to use in the ea50 to match it with the image from the vg30?

Re: EA50 - B camera ideas
 

Still working on that Noa but will post once I have satisfactory results. I have dabbled with your JR45 Cine profile but am finding it too contrasty and a little red, so continuing some tests.

Re: EA50 - B camera ideas
 

Hi James

Peter and I shot last weekend's weddings on the PP3 profile with colour level lifted from zero to +4 and I must say I really like the result!! Pete will also be posting his results later too! It's worth a shot?

Chris

Re: EA50 - B camera ideas
 

Of course Craig, thanks I will give that a try.

Re: EA50 - B camera ideas
 

They are not my preset, I just copied it as well from another source :) But you are right that the reds are more pronounced but I don't find it contrasty, it's actually quite flat.

Re: EA50 - B camera ideas
 

Hi James,

The match for the loaned VG20 I was using with my EA50 was just PP1 or off (i see little difference between those two anyway). I was shooting corporate meeting lectures so the match was great. I do not have to get real fussy with those shoots. I was using my Canon lenses and everything looked good. For you guys that are tweaking every last pixel of perfection out of it you might not be as happy as I was.

I am now shopping for a VG 20 or 30 on E-bay. I have never purchased a used camera of any type before. Or a new one from E-bay. I get most of my stuff from B&H. In this case, for a cheap "B" cam and fly cam the E-Bay prices are about half and it is not a big investment so I will probably pick one up pretty soon. I will let you know if I still think it is that great after I put more time in on it. I still believe it is a good "B" cam for the EA50. But you are correct that is not true once you start utilizing the versatility that the EA50 comes with.

Are you happy with your VG30? Does the cine profile match PP5 on the EA50 by any chance? I did not get a chance to compare them.

Steve

Re: EA50 - B camera ideas
 

To be honest I have been struggling with the new cameras. The ea50 can achieve some amazing stuff particularly with the focus transition tool, perhaps worth buying the camera for alone, I wish the vg30 had that function. The ea50 is fine when you have all day to set up a shot but for weddings it is quite cumbersome in too many ways to list them all and the LCD is far inferior to that on the vg30, next to useless if you ask me and with no viewfinder, you need to have done a lot of testing before. But I have the camera now so will stick with it. Am probably going to get a canon xa20 to use alongside the other two, I miss my fast long zoom and desperately want it back!

Re: EA50 - B camera ideas
 

Realy? Why do you find the lcd of the ea50 useless? Combined with the focus aids you get like peaking, magnification and spotfocus during record I find it the best lcd I have used so far on any camera I had in the past. I can understand the lcd of the vg30 to be superior from what I have read about it but useless?

Also watch out with combining footage from a xa20, the sharpness difference between the 2 camera will make matching images difficult, I allready have this with my cx730 and those are not as pin sharp as some camera's out there.

Re: EA50 - B camera ideas
 

The Vg30 has a high resolution O-LED viewfinder and this is a big upgrade from the Vg20. (an O'LED viewfinder is a $350+ option for an NEX-5!) Both VG20/30 cameras have silly little swing-out LCDs and IMO, the only thing they are good for is setting up the menu prior to a shoot. I would not use the LCD as any form of reference during a shoot.

Re: EA50 - B camera ideas
 

James,

The EA50 is designed to be an event camera. Weddings, corporate events, and run and gun are its strength. It is not a cinema cam. Focus Transition is on the bottom of my list of features this camera offers. Maybe your trying to over think it? I would like to hear more about what your doing with it. Maybe we can help?

Steve

Re: EA50 - B camera ideas
 

Hi James

Am I right in saying that you are the one who doesn't use the viewing tube either?? I trust the focus peaking on the camera in manual and that's all I use ..I certainly wouldn't try to focus without peaking!!

As for focus transition if you are shooting manual focus anyway wouldn't it be a lot easier just to do a manual shift ..that's how it was done in the old days!!

I use my viewing tube PLUS a 52mm CU lens (+2 dioptre) screwed into the top and it makes a huge difference to me ...maybe that's worth a try. After using 260K LCD's on my Panasonics the EA-50 to me is amazing resolution but I still wouldn't use just the image on an LCD for focussing anyway

Chris

Re: EA50 - B camera ideas
 

All I know is that focusing without peaking was much easier with my z1, obviously smaller chip so bound to be but it is the LCD in bright sunshine that I find to be the problem and I don't like the viewing tube. I would never have used focus transition in the past but I do find it to be useful on this camera with its larger sensor. Must be me but I still have my reservations about this camera for weddings.

Re: EA50 - B camera ideas
 

Well, so far I have been really delighted with the cameras (I have two of them) at weddings but then again I had Panny HMC82's previously so the Sony's should be better. Even shooting weddings with the stock lenses have been great..with run 'n gun handheld the big sensor takes a little time on AF but nothing that causes any issues. My season is over now but I did the last 16 weddings of the season all on the EA-50's and brides are happy. The only extra's I have are a Tammy 17-50 F2.8 constant for low light Churches and also a Tokina 11-16 F2.8 for stuff when I just want to point and shoot like guest interviews

I've used both the stock 18-200 and the 17-50 at weddings as even with the 18-200 I run in manual ...The 18-200 using AF on the stedicam also does a great job.

Different strokes for different folks but I found the transition from 1/4" chips to big sensor painless ..yep I certainly wouldn't attempt to use the LCD without the tube even if you use the shroud part of the tube in bright sunlight. Focus Peaking is always on with both cameras!

Chris

Re: EA50 - B camera ideas
 

I agree this might be a problem and I now also have the same 730 as you, but having now shot 4 weddings with the ea50 and its 10x zoom, I just feel I want to be able to get closer to the action without standing any nearer. The xa20 offers 1080 50p and a 20x zoom, unmatched as far as Sony are concerned, why that is, you would have to ask sony!

Re: EA50 - B camera ideas
 

James please let me ask a question. Are you relatively new to shooting weddings? The reason I ask is because the EA50 is a wedding camera and some very picky veterans here are quite happy with it in that environment. I am trying to figure out how I can offer assistance, as you say you are struggling with it. I have been in this business 20 years, commercial, not weddings. My point is, that kind of longevity meant we had to learn how to shoot first and foremost. The cameras did not do anything for us. I am wondering if it is technology you are disappointed in, not the specific camera. Some guys get so caught up in the technology their expectations from the camera become unrealistic.

I bring this up with all due respect. I know nothing about you. The EA50 is a general utility type camera designed with weddings and events in mind. It does a very good job of that. I am trying to figure out why you are struggling with it so I may offer assistance.

Re: EA50 - B camera ideas
 

My opinion is that the ea50 is not for everyone, it's not an easy camera to work with as you need to blindly know where all the controls are outside the camera while you are shooting and that only comes with a lot of practice. I still find changing exposure manually with that small wheel not handy, you often need to turn it a lot to make bigger exposure changes, the manual focus on the stock lens is also difficult in run and gun, since it's electronically and not very accurate it makes correct focusing not that easy and the stabilization is not "that" good. I don't find the reach of the stocklens zoom not sufficient, for me it's plenty at weddings but useless nonetheless as the lens ramps too quickly making you push the iso way above 1600 before you know it.

Those are all things that make the camera difficult to handle in run and gun when you use the stocklens, you could let it all in auto if you are afraid you might mess it up yourself when it goes too fast but the risk of letting your camera mess up is bigger as well.

Re: EA50 - B camera ideas
 

ALL servo lenses suck when you try to manually focus them. It is the nature of the beast. And some are worse than others. Have you ever tried to manually focus a Canon XL series lens? It will make you crazy!

It is not the iris wheel that bothers me. It is the menu wheel. I constantly push it past the detent while spinning it, selecting something I don't want.

Every camera has quirks. I have not found a perfect one yet.

Steve

Re: EA50 - B camera ideas
 

Noa makes many of the points that I feel. I have shot approximately 200 weddings but 196 of them with a z1. I moved to the ea50 as I wanted the creative freedom that the larger format gives you but with the form of a video camera. Ideally I would have liked a fixed lens as I feel this is most practical for shooting weddings but nothing available at the right price. Surely if you shoot weddings like I do, when I see a shot I want to be able to frame right away using the zoom and the ea50 is maybe not the best camera for that kind of work. I also like to use the rocker in a creative way. (Slow zooms etc), I hate having to flick the switch from manual to servo and back again to be able to do this, why couldn't the servo be a true variable servo like we have on fixed lens cameras? I am sure there is a valid technical reason but I can 't believe I am the only one who finds this frustrating. The digital zoom is pure gold only that the image quality does deteriorate particularly in low light. Low light and telephoto, I am quite sure that none if us want to be shooting at 24db when zoomed in! It is not that I don't like the camera, for certain apps like my corporate stuff it is great but not enough on its own for me with weddings. The other day I had been shooting with the camera all day and we came to the dimly lit marquee and I said to hell with this and got out the cx730 and wow it was a breath of fresh air. I could get the shots I wanted quickly and with no fear of poor light. For a £700 camera, this does not speak well for the ea50 as a run and gun camera. I am pleased that so many of you are having success and I think noa is right, the camera does take more getting used to than some but unless Sony invent a zoom lens that works with the rocker and is faster and maybe even longer this camera will never be suitable for many of the candlelit weddings I find myself at and lights are not an option with my clients unless I want a lynching!

Re: EA50 - B camera ideas
 

Well, it's actually just a big dslr, I have been shooting with my T2i's since 2011 so I already knew what to expect from the ea50, the stocklens, eventhough not perfect, is actually a bonus because I never had a dslr lens that could autofocus. The ea50 is better in every aspect compared to my t2i, only not in size and weight which can be an advantage but also a disadvantage.

Also if you want to shoot candlelit venues you need to shoot with fast primes or at least get a fixed f2.8 zoom lens, the stocklens is useless for this purpose, the ea50 is designed to work with all types of lenses and if you don't use that to your advantage then you are indeed better off with a fixed lens camera, especially if you are a solo shooter.

It's not a "whip out of your pocket and start shooting right" kind of camera like the cx730 is, that one is designed to shoot well in auto, that's why I prefer to use the cx730's during the legal part at the townhall and during the church, I can use 2 of those and know my shots will look ok and that I won't miss any important moment, something I could not guarantee with two ea50's. I just need more time with that camera to get it right.

Re: EA50 - B camera ideas
 

James,

You have had so many complaints about this camera I finally jumped in sincerely believing there must be something I or we could do to help you. Your post above does make sense out of everything to me now. I thought maybe you did not have enough experience to properly set up the camera or something like that. That is part of the problem but you may disagree. And you’re not going to like my suggestion. I am going to tell you the truth “as I see it”.

I have a sense of humor and want to throw out some jokes but I don’t know you so I will refrain. I will however tell you what I “think”. It does not matter how many weddings you have shot, for hire, in the past. You do not understand photography, cameras, or technology well enough to have made a good purchase decision to serve your needs.

You say you have professionally shot 200 weddings in the past with your Sony Z1 and now you bought the EA50 to step up to a more professional camera. You say it is important to you to record the candle lit receptions common at some wedding receptions. So you chose to go from a camera with a fixed zoom that goes from f/1.6 to f/2.4 for its maximum aperture to a camera with a “kit lens” that runs from f3.5 to f6.3. Now you are, as you say, frustrated and disappointed. You have made a lot of posts about your frustration with the camera. Above, you say, pulling out your handycam “was a breath of fresh air”. The EA50 is clearly not the right camera for you.

Understanding aperture with all of its abilities, limitations, and effects on the image is one of the most basic functions of all photography. Expecting any f6.3 lens and camera combination to serve you well at candle lit receptions is not going to happen. You clearly made what has to be an uneducated decision, in my opinion.

I know that sounds harsh, it is. I am not picking on you personally; I see things like this all the time. In our industry anyone can print a business card and call themselves a professional. With today’s technology it is tempting for some, to rely on the camera to compensate for what they never bothered to learn. By choosing a f3.5 to f6.3 kit lens to professionally shoot candle lit receptions and then be surprised it does not work well, I can only surmise you do not have a deep understanding of the basic mechanical functions of recording light.

No offence intended. We all come here to ask and learn. I sincerely suggest you learn more about how cameras and lenses work.

Steve

Re: EA50 - B camera ideas
 

Is it me or was that last post a bit unfair? I will, however, resist the urge to retaliate and gracefully bow out of this discussion. Up to this point I had found this to be a fantastic forum and a great place to share experiences but from now on, I will keep my opinions to myself. It's only a camera, I do understand it, I like it and will continue to enjoy using it.

Re: EA50 - B camera ideas
 

I'm sorry if I offended you. I stated the conclusion that I drew from your posts. Right or wrong it is just my opinion. I do not think it was unfair, it is an opinion. It would be a shame if you discontinued your use of this forum because of me. In the future I will refrain from responding to your posts if that helps. This is a civilized forum and many of us disagree with each other on a regular basis. There is no need to go away.

Steve

Re: EA50 - B camera ideas
 

For what it's worth James, I do understand your frustration as I have worked with a z1 alike camera (I had a Canon xh-a1 and a panasonic dvx100b before that) and I believe it's not because you don't know what you are doing. A large sensor ea50 is just a totally different camera then your z1 and it takes time to get used to that, in my case because I was used to working with a dslr my transition to the ea50 was pretty painless but when I used my dslr for the first time I was happy I still had a regular videocamera because I thought the 550d was a pita to handle.
You just have to work around the what you call limitations and make use of the strengths the camera has, I also think what you want does exist but costs a lot more then the ea50 so you have to take it for what it is. It's like with my personal projects that I do which I post on here, I think they do look pretty but that is only because I take the time to get it right, let me make the same film under timepressure like at a wedding and it won't even look half as good. If I would shoot it with my cx730 it would look pretty much the same in both cases. And don't mind Steven, he's just an old grumpy man but he means well :D

Re: EA50 - B camera ideas
 

Hi James

Steven is always around to assist and his advice is appreciated. It's tough to assume someone's experience and knowledge especially if they only have done a small number of posts and haven't told you much about themselves so you have to assume they are asking for advice thru lack of knowledge of either the industry or a newer system ... I have shot maybe close to 2000 shoots over 23 years but I'm still quite happy for people to tell me things I need to know and I applaud both Steven and Noa for taking the time to post replies.

My previous cameras were also small 3 chip cameras and moving to large sensor cameras means some adjustments.. Noa was one who warned me about the big difference but I adjusted easily, thanks to his information.

If you are given information that assumes lack of your own knowledge just take in in your stride, it's never meant as an insult, just two great guys trying to help and their posts and advice, for me anyway are very much appreciated.

Chris

Re: EA50 - B camera ideas
 

Fair enough, all valid points, it is a different experience and I knew it would be, less so than going for a dslr but still a learning curve. I have already achieved some great pictures with the camera, simply stating what I think might be its weak points in the hope that the next generation ea51 might fix. No need to ignore my posts Steven ( unless of course you want to). Thanks again

Re: EA50 - B camera ideas
 

Class act James. I reread my post....it was over top....I could have said things better. I'm Sorry.

Steve