Marius,

A prosumer and Cinealta version of the camera are coming.The VG10 is a high end consumer camcorder. It was marketed and priced as such. It just happens to shoot amazing footage that can outclass cameras twice it's price.

If you want pro features such as you describe you have to pay for a pro camera, or accept a degree of improvisation/compromise in return for the picture quality. I happen to think using a VG10 involves far less compromise than a DSLR equivalent, hence my purchase. You don't, hence your return.

these improvements are very easy to make (for Sony); it is in the firmware;

But they're unlikely to make them on a consumer camera. I suggest you wait until the prosumer and cinealta versions come out later in the year and purchase one of those.

It's not a question of how easy it would be for Sony to offer more features. It's about how they percieve the need to slice and dice the marketplace so that they do not cut their own throat.
The specs and features of this camera are well known, and thoroughly discussed/reviewed/dissected all over the web. There is no rational excuse for buying this camera and being surprised that it doesn't have the features of an EX1.
The VG 10 is for consumers and that is a deliberate marketing decision, not a technology/price limitation.
For the professional shooters who need pro features, the solution will arrive in 2011 with the addition of 2 new pro level 35mm chip cams. Sony really wants you to buy these cameras if you want more features.
They are simply not going to give the farm away in a $2K Handicam (actually a $1.2K Handicam, if you discount the lens).
I think it is a clever strategy personally- I can play around with large chip shooting using the VG10. If I get hooked on it, maybe I'll upgrade- I can even continue to use my existing lenses. If not, I'll still have a fun B cam for DOF shots.

Absolutely agreed, Robert. The limitations of the camera are well documented and should be no surprise. Given the regular and vocal criticism of the VG10 I feel the need to re-emphasise how pleased I am with my purchase and the results I'm getting from it.

This is more of the same as the "my camera's controls lock out randomly. It must be faulty. I've sent it back and am getting a D60... What do you mean I was accidentally pressing the photo button with my knuckle?!" farago.

YouTube - Sony nexvg10 locks up while shutter release is pressed.

If people did their research properly before buying the world would be a happier place :)

You told it very well. Each shot is set-up. And, can be repeated for multiple takes.

I'm not sure what the deal is with the LCD. It is big and high-rez. It does not work well with veri-focal glasses. But, the VF really is very nice

Now about audio. Lets assume we have a loud guy on channel 1 and a low-talker on channel 2. In terms of DIGITAL recording, there is no need to not simply allow the difference. The lower signal can peak at -20dB while the loud can peak at -6dB. Digital couldn't care. It's simply numbers. There is no strength or weakness! This is why digital is so great. The numbers can get screwed-up either. Any noise is introduced by the analog stage before the A/D converted. From this point until you view the movie it is all numbers.

In post ,you adjust the numbers to be more equal.

I do believe the LCD and the VF are close, if not the same, as the EX1r. The specs are certainly similar- around 1 megapixel for both.
P.S.- I think it is not the LCD that doesn't work with your glasses, but rather the glasses that don't work well with the LCD :)

The LCD is similar (possibly a different screen coating), the VF certainly isn't the same unless they've done a bizarre downgrade on the EX1R. The VG10 VF has a lack of resolution and has that thing that LED stage lights sometimes suffer from that of you move your head or blink, you can see Red, Green and Blue suddenly appearing from nowhere.

We know Pana limited the data rate of the Gh1 because folks hacked it. Then, Pana locked the code so you can't make the camera better.

But, there are a few firmware changes that would not give away the store. For example you can hold down the shutter button in MF. Why not activate the FA by pressing the shutter button when in AF.

And, the FOCUS button should simply TOGGLE between MF and AF.

These don't seem like marketing decisions. These are more like sloppy design.

Also, does anyone think it odd it hasn't been reviewed in any video magazines?

I get the sense the whole NEX line was rushed. But, the 3 and 5 are sure selling!

My first Nikon prime arrived this morning.

My goodness, how much easier it is to focus with a proper focus barrel. Had no trouble pulling focus to exactly where I wanted it and can hit the spot every single time.

If Sony are expecting professionals to use the e-mount lenses in the (unreleased) higher cameras, they might have tough time. A freely rotating focus barrel that gives no feel or indication of what the hell it is doing is just dreadful. 10 minutes with a Nikon is a different world. Yes the mechanisms aren't as smooth as I'd like for video but hitting the spot with the focus is so so much easier.

For those complaining about focus, ditch those Sony lenses and go and buy something decent guys. From what I've seen so far shooting is worlds apart.

That was exactly my feeling when I used a Sony alpha lens. My god it felt so good. Rack focus was ez!

Of course, the mechanical feel created noise that was recorded. Still, unless one focused during shot, that is not a problem. Or, if one used an external mic, which is likely.

And herein lies the problem. I want to use old REAL lenses, yet so much of the camera function is tied into the electrical connections.

Please describe which mount you bought, and step by step how you set the aperture dot focus and how you set it for shooting.

And that leads to my very old eyes,

Just in case you are not familiar with XR550V here is what difference 0.5" would make. see pict. (this screen is used by Sony in cheeper!!!! XR550V and believe me it is sweet). It would make big difference for all of us. I have XR500, 520 and 550V among seven other Sony cameras (I am Sony guy) so I followed progression Sony made with "500 line" models. How surprise I was when I opened the box and saw much smaller LCD. Anyway, I am happy that 3" LCD is fine for you while shooting HD. Wow! I rest my case.

It strikes me that not having focus assist and shrinking the LCD on the VG10 may have been on purpose. Without focus assist, it's much easier to shoot the blurry footage that DSLRs are known for. You know the shot, starts blurry, the op racks razor thin focus back and forth to ensure the subject is in focus at some point...Yeah. that's it. jk jk ;-)

Les....are you sure what are you talking about....?????

Marius,

Thank you for the photo, but I think that a straight overhead shot not involving diminishing perspective would have been more helpful ;)

Marius, it was an attempt at humor. I could no longer resist.

Henry,
I tried to be objective and aligned the edges of the screens; common sense would be best helper here [one screen is 3" the other one 3.5"] just figure it out.
Les, I have these both cameras now and believe me in real life shooting having that extra 0.5" larger screen is helping big time but as I said before I don't care anymore since I am returning it back to the store.

It was an E-Mount to Nikon adaptor from Ebay. There are lots of retailers selling them. Setup was straightforward, it just bolts onto the camera as a lens would.

The camera functions tied to the lenses are only really for the amateur crowd, so I don't feel I'm losing anything. Having to adjust aperture using buttons is a total joke. The noise from the focus isn't a problem because I would never use an onboard mic anyway. Even the Z1 and EX1 pick up noise from their zoom mechanisms from time to time if you use their onboards.

In short I'll be buying more Nikon Primes. The loss of camera functions isn't a problem and all I am after is a good visual look. The camera handles beautifully with Nikon attached and there are none of the DSLR ergonomic problems.

People who find the screen a problem might want to see if Hoodman have a solution available.

There are so many on eBay. Which did you buy?

And, can you tell me how you set aperture?

Some old lenses have an aperture ring, some don't.

Adaptive for the first work differently from the second.

I set the aperture by using the aperture ring on the lens. Without this you'd be stuffed.

I bought this one:

Nikon F G lens Mount to Sony E Adapter for NEX-3 NEX-5 on eBay (end time 10-Dec-10 13:38:13 GMT)

But I only bought it because it didn't need to ship from Hong Kong. They all look much of a muchness really and looking at what the adaptor consists of there's not alot to go wrong on. It's a fraction of the cost of the "official" adaptors.

OK, here is the test:

I wanted to test my focusing abilities before I return it to the store so I went to the local store, bought Nikon to NEX adapter and used my Nikon 105 2.5 manual lens (great lens btw). I hooked VG10 with 10ft HDMI cable in order to focus as best as I can looking on my 50" LCD TV!!!! from the distance of HDMI cable. VG10 was set to 1/30 F:2.5 gain 6db AWB and I shoot this footage; for EX1 (since the camera doesn't have luxury of hook up with HDMI cable) I used camera peaking function as I always use (great feature that saved many, many as....). Ex1 was set to HD1080/30p 1/40, 3db F:1.9 AWB I tried to get the best possible footage for both cameras, honestly, otherwise what would be the point to do the test. It was filmed from approx 10ft. here is still shot (which stunned me....) you be the judge.....(o, btw...EX1 is on the left side)

I suggest you try again with better lighting. I just tried the experiment myself under standard domestic lighting on a 50mm 1.8 lens and it was struggling. So a 2.4 would be even worse. Gain doesn't really help. Trying to focus a video camera that is struggling to get enough light onto the sensor is always hard, let alone one that is so sensitive to any tiny variations in focus.

Certainly the shots I got just now don't match the results I was getting under daylight conditions.

I was testing MY ability to focus using huge 50" LCD in normal room conditions (and how lack of peaking affects footage); it is not a test of those cameras (ex1 is from different league...) It is like I was trying to shoot documentary....you never have perfect conditions....

The thing about the VG 10 (and I've only had mine a little longer than you) is that it is one of the most fiddly cameras in its price range. It's not a run and gun, you don't just need to set up the camera correctly but the conditions need to be right as well.

Whereas you can put an EX1 into most situations (and I've been in some strange varied conditions with mine) this isn't possible with the VG10.

The VG10 is bloody fiddly and thought needs to go into what you are doing. Consideration needs to be given if a light meter might be a good investment and you will need lenses to suit all occasions. In many ways you need to be thinking "photo" as much as "video".

There are people out there getting good results with the camera and I can see the potential in my test footage. The people on the forums who are finding fault with it are generally run and gunners who mistook the camera for some kind of replacement for the old VX series. I'm not saying this is the case with you, but I was certainly aware of the criticisms before I purchased it.

Fair enough if the camera isn't for you, but on my first week with the camera my impression is that the camera and lenses will add some exciting possibilities to my workflow. I can live with the shortcomings until something better comes along.

You test is confounded by the focal length, the aperture setting (fully open is always very soft), and the lens quality itself. And, of course the everything inside the camera.

You need more light so both lenses are at f5.6, no gain is used, and both lenses are set to mid-zoom.

But, that will still not give you a valid test because of the Sharpness control on the EX1 and the codec.

==============

Your comment that "it is like I was trying to shoot documentary....you never have perfect conditions...." Of course not. No offense, but all you've said is that FILM makers with NO focusing aids, were so skilled they could do what Marcus describes as is needed with the Vg10 very rapidly and in harsh conditions.

I'm not saying I'm super skilled, but my first Bolex had a side-scope that you aimed at the subject, noted the parallax distance, and set distance on one of 3 lenses. Then one used a lightmeter to to get the exposure and set the lens aperture. One also had to wind the spring-motor! Yet, somehow, I spent a summer in Europe shooting and had very few bad shots. Everyone who shot film did this. The spring motor died so I bought a K2 with a 3X zoom lens AND had a selenium photocell driven meter inside. But, when I bought another Bolex I gave-up the meter. Moreover, I carried my baby 20 miles through the snow to get a shot!

I think this "my camera can't" really should be "I can't". Run and gun is no excuse IF you really are practiced! Perhaps when buying a camera cost about as much as a VW, so one used one for a very long time, it really helped develop skill. And, because Bolex changed so slowly, one was not lured into buying a new one.

With all respect; I know there are many veterans with tremendous experience gained over the years of shooting in very challenging conditions; they could teach and share their experience with our future filmmakers because laws of optics didn't change but guys, please stop comparing what was it like 20 years ago to present, amazing times - now equipment is different and we can watch it on huge HD screens (soon in 3D) - now shooting in full HD we can see "shape of dandruff flakes" ;-) on someone's shoulder....it is a different ball game.

Just to confirm, I repeated my experiment from last night with a single video light and focus was perfect.

Just to follow this up I did an extended test today with my two new lenses (the Nikon 50mm and the Sony 16mm pancake).

In the bright snow the Sony pancake was a nightmare. Utterly impossible to focus. The never ending focus ring makes it impossible to judge where you are in the focus range and on the wide angle shots this lens is designed for you just couldn't see a thing on the viewfinder or the screen. I suspect this lens will be the first candidate for Ebay when my collection grows. On autofocus it was fine but overall it's a massive disappointment.

However the Nikon 50mm was a delight. I could hit the spot perfectly each time with no issues. Having a proper focus control with a start and end (+ distance markings) makes all the difference. The only point where it was slightly more difficult was towards the end of the focus range where it took a few moments thought to get it spot on. In short a delight and lovely images to boot. The Nikon 50mm + adaptor should be the first 3rd party lens a VG10 owner looks at because they are so cheap for the image quality you get.

shooting on snow with such great light what shutter speed did you use and what range is recommended?

I was using 1/400 and 1/500 shutter speed due to the fact I don't currently have any ND filters for this lens.

I can't remember the f-stop I was using as obviously with a manual lens there is no readout on the LCD. Somewhere around F4 I think which is the lenses sweet spot. However it was constantly changing as I had fast moving clouds overhead so the lighting was very dynamic.

But shooting with the Nikon felt so natural. All of my gripes when shooting with it are down to the focal length not really being suited to what I wanted to shoot (I bought it for interviews not landscapes). So I suspect my next purchase will be a wider lens.

The only thing to note with these lenses is they are designed for stills. This results in the mechanics not being quite as smooth as a dedicated video lens. Also of course the EX1 and similar cameras have a much larger focus ring which gives more precise control.

And going back to the Sony 16mm, some of the wide angle stills I took with it look very nice indeed. It has potential but I can't help but think the focussing issue is a biggie. You either trust in the autofocus or effectively shoot blind.

[edit] Here's a review of the Nikon 50mm 1.8 for anyone interested. It's what persuaded me to get mine. They can be had for as little as £79 new in the UK:

http://www.kenrockwell.com/nikon/5018daf.htm

Would be interested to know what anyone reckons the actual focal length is after conversion + the usual cropping.

This was a quick test in the snow with the 18-200 kit lens. I've left the footage completely raw and ungraded. 1/100 for the stuff in the trees and 1/50 for the stuff on the ground + 6 db of gain. I was at maximum zoom almost the whole time with the lens as open as possible so I think about f5-6 depending. A little approximate with the settings and the focus at times (cos Robins move faster than the people I'm used to filming!) but it should be a decent indicator of how the lens holds up under these conditions.

YouTube - ROBIN IN CHRISTMAS SNOW SONY NEX-VG10 TEST

Marcus, focal length on 4/3 and NEX cameras with DSLR lenses is 1.6x - so 50mm = approx. 80mm

Interesting. Thanks.

It looks like Nikon sell a line of lenses that are for APS-C sensors so I guess they might do what they actually say on the tin so to speak.

IWould that bring vignetting back into the equation?

Not sure.

Bit of a minefield to be honest.

My understanding was that we didn't have to worry about vignetting using slr lenses because of their increased size. Presumably, if you start plugging in lenses intended for micro four thirds cameras vignetting rears its ugly head again.

Then again, this is something I'm similarly unsure about. Happy to stick with my kit lens, the 16mm e-mount, and a cheap 50mm 1.8 and 30mm f.2 for now...

For my needs I think I'd like to try and find something wider than the 16mm if I can. There is a wide angle adaptor available for it but although I like the images and portability of the lens, I don't like the way I have to use it.

Likewise a longer telephonto might be handy. Perhaps a lower end zoom lens. And like you say, something around 30mm that's fairly fast would be nice.

The thing about lenses, e-mount aside, is you can take them with you and you should get most of your money back. Just had my eye on a Sigma zoom on Ebay that has only gone for about 40 quid less than the best price I can get one for new! A decent Nikon or similar is an investment in your business that you should get most of the money back on if you sell it.

Exactly. The lovely thing about the NEX and micro four thirds systems is that were not tied to a brand in the way that true DSLR users are.

I've spent the last couple of weeks ebaying stuff as well. No doubt we shall end up duelling for the odd really sweet prime ;)