I see no reason for disappointment. Not only is the lens quality, camera features, and economies of scale entirely different, but 3-chip cameras have to have enormous backfocus. That forces the optical design to be much more expensive for the same level of quality. If you want to have that feature for that price, you have to accept the other things that go along with it.

That is true, but not with FCP, as it will not edit AVCHD. So actually after transcoding the footage between the quality loss and large storage (even ProRes is 0.8GB/min) I would hardly call it advantage.

robert-

u make a good point.

so if different cameras are used for specific reasons, do we start treating our nle edit systems the same way?

sure i use fcp, but if apple refuses to adapt to avchd then should i be looking to vegas when i use a camera system like nxcam?

ymmv

be well

rob

Actually I have a broader perspective with respect to editing AVCHD. It isn't a "friendly" editing format in any NLE. It's very processor intensive even if your NLE supports it. It's better to convert AVCHD footage into an intermediate codec such as Cineform (also available on a MAC), which is much easier to work with.

If you are proficient with FCP, an issue like this shouldn't be a reason to switch to another NLE - it's a pain to change your working environment.

But... surely that's FCP's problem, yes? AVCHD has been on the market for years now. What are they waiting for?

"But... surely that's FCP's problem, yes? AVCHD has been on the market for years now. What are they waiting for?"
It's not just NLE, it's also machines themselves. And AVCHD doesn't offer substantially better quality then XDCAM at the moment (yes I did read your article, but the frame grabs did not convinced me, they looked equally blurry both in AVCHD and XDCAM). Don't forget that now people tend to think a bit more sober and they are not going to dump a whole lot of money into new computers, specially that AVCHD is not even recognized as a "broadcast standard", while XDCAM is (that leaves for now AVCHD in event/corporate category). The era of running out and getting a new gadgets is over is not going to come back for a long time. For small (like me) or big it's all about bottom line.

I agree. Use the tools that work. I don't expect to do everything with one piece of software. Even on the PC which I use, I have Edius as my main editor but also use Vegas and Premiere too as well as several others. For authoring I mainly use DVDLab Pro2 for SD but DVD Architect for Bluray ( I have Encore but rarely use). As far as hardware is concerned, use what the software needs.
I don't use a hammer for all the woodworking I do either so why limit oneself to one compute platform!!!
As input, most of my projects are 4 camera edits with two Sony FX1's and two AVCHD cameras, a Sony SR11 and XR500. Even at the 16Mbps AVCHD these two have higher resolution than the FX1 that is noticable as well as better colour. One reason I did not upgrade to the FX1000 and was waiting to see if Sony would bring out a competitor to the Panasonic HMC150.
Ron Evans

So guys will my PC with Intel Quad core 2.40GHz CPU can handle this AVCHD codec? Because I have now the Z5 and I want to buy a second camera so this new NXCAM might be the one.

Stelios

Depends on your editing software and your graphics card. If using Premiere Pro CS4.2, with an nVidia graphics card, you should get close to realtime playback, if not full realtime playback. If using EDIUS Neo 2 with the AVCHD Booster, you should get full realtime, even perhaps multiple streams of realtime.

If using Vegas, don't expect realtime playback.

If using Avid, you'll have to transcode away from AVCHD into something else.

With Vegas transcoded to Neoscene (I am assuming Cineform's Neoscene can be used to convert) you can have a real time playback, depending on your processor, playback quality settings, and amount of filtering and/or color correction.

I am using (don't laugh...) Corel VideoStudio Pro x2 and my graphics card is ASUS EAH 4350. So could my NLE habdle the AVCHD?

Stelios

I like the idea of the NXCAM, as I have been looking at buying the Z5 for quite some time.

Only issue is, my computer has an Intel Quad Core i7 2.93 GHz processor, 2 GB DDR3 RAM & an Nvidia graphics card and struggles to edit the AVCHD footage from my current cam (Canon HG10), and I can't see the NXCAM being any less processor hungry.

So, in my position, I guess I'm better off sticking with the idea of the Z5? I could always buy the HVR-MRC1K right?

You can always transcode the footage to something your NLE is more happy with, if you have the time.

David - What would you suggest converting it to? I'm using Premiere CS4.

Surely, If I was to transcode the AVCHD footage, I'd be just as well buying the Z5 & just capturing the tape to my PC. That way i've got a hard copy too?

Ollie:

NeoScene from Cineform transcodes both HDV and ACHDV for a sweet editing experience. I am hoping NeoScene will handle the NXCam ACHDV the same as it does for the Canon 5D and 7D. You should take look at the Cineform forum for more information, or go to Cineform.com. For professional results, I think it is important to transcode from these capture formats to an editable format no matter which way you go.

Hi Chris,

Thanks very much for your reply. I will check Neoscene out!

I've just found a Z5 on eBay for £1400 (bids). The seller has added this to the listing:

operation 6x10......tape run 0x10
drum run 1x10....threading 2x10..

Excuse my ignorance - but are these stats good for a second hand camera, futhermore - what do they actually mean?

Don't know about Premiere.

Regarding your second point, the NXCAM seems to have certain other advantages over the Z5, a 720p/50 mode being one of them. Sony are also making a lot about the high res viewfinder, and I think there's a lot more.

It really depends if you really want tape or not. I know quite a few people who want it for the DVCAM/tape backwards compatability at times, yet also want an HD compatability. It's becoming different now that solid state doesn't necessarily mean expensive media. And whilst you may not be able to edit AVC-HD natively now, maybe you'll be upgrading your edit system within the lifetime of the camera?

Fair points David. I won't have the money for a new cam for a couple of months anyway - so I will re-consult you guys regarding my final choice once I know the cost of the NXCAM compared to the Z5.

Thanks for your help to date!

I am also in the same boat as Ollie. Waiting to see the price of this new camera and also if NeoScene from Cineform can easily convert the AVCHD files to something that my PC and NLE can handle easily (as Chris Barcellos says) then I will buy this new camera to pair with my Z5.

Stelios

Stelios, Corel VideoStudio Pro X2 is just a step down of Premiere Pro or Final Cut.
In fact, it is MediaStudio Pro 8 (discontinued) with less tracks. If Corel puts 2 or 3 audio tracks more this app will be the best behing PP or FC.
Ah, it has 6 video tracks, very powerful for an "aficionado video editor".

Well, VideoStudio Pro X2 can works with proxy files. It can convert all files to something lighter in size and can get "any" codec that you have installed in your computer. Total flexibility.

I'm editing HDV without proxys in a XP SP3, 3 Gigas RAM and Intel Dual Core 3 GHZ. Perfect.

I have made some tests one year ago with some Panasonic HG-150 clips and works well with proxys and very bad in native mode.

And no, I don't lough. I smile because this app is a little treasure ;)

Have you upgraded to CS4.2? Your system should easily be playing back AVCHD, full-screen, full-frame rate, in realtime. Make sure you update to the latest version and try it again.

Mikel

You made my day!!! because I also love this program because it has everything that I want for my requirements and certainly my clients, so far, are happy with the product I deliver using VideoStudio Pro x2.


Stelios

Barry - No, I haven't as I didn't realise there was another update (I installed 4.1 not so long ago). I will install & let you know how it goes.

I've installed the update, and it's great - a lot quicker to load aswell as smooth play back of AVCHD. Would it still be a better option to use NeoScene to convert the footage anyway?

My experience with NeoScene is that it is nowhere near as fast as the native AVCHD files, in either Premiere or Vegas. However, I am assured that that is abnormal behavior, and so I'm filing a support ticket with Cineform to see if we can figure out what the problem is.

So -- if you're happy with the way your system performs with AVCHD now, I can't see why you'd want to go to another format, spend a hundred dollars, and increase your file sizes by 10x. (I'm using NeoScene mainly to get rid of the 2:3 pulldown in GH1 footage).

But, on the other hand, if you're still not happy with the AVCHD performance in 4.2, then try downloading the demo of NeoScene and see how it works for you. It's very inexpensive and if it makes you happy, then you're happy!

You might also like to try GV NEO with the Booster pack that has a 30 day trial.

Ron Evans

Thanks a lot for your help Barry!

I'll give 4.2 a go for a while & see how I get on :)

NXCAM Pricing ?
 

Anyone know estimate pricing for Sony NXCAM? USD3000? or less

Since the Z5 costs $4,100, this NXCAM will not be anywhere close to $3,000. More like a street price of $4,500. Still, I'm hoping for no more than $4,000.
But then again, April is a long way and Sony may want to think twice about pricing it too high if Panasonic decides to release a successor of the HMC150 with the same chips that's in their HPX300.
As far as Canon is concerned, with all that time that there spending, what ever they release better be good to make it worth the wait.

It remains to be seen how Sony and others will react to the Red Scarlet. For $3700 one can purchase a 4K camera with 2/3" sensor, removable lens and a better codec than AVCHD.

If Sony want to remain relevant, they're going to have to price the NXCAM around $1800 and a removable lens version (ala Z7U) around $3000.

I could be wrong, but that's my take on it.

It means the Z5 has been turned on for 60 hours, has run less that 10 tapes and laced and unlaced less than 30 of them. It's hardly been used.

Of course these are just numerical figures. If the loading and ejecting of tapes is done on a wind-swept beach then these 20+ will be far more damaging than 300 loadings done on an English summer lawn.

tom.

For $3700 one cannot do that -- yet.

FWIW, we should know more from RED on Monday...

No doubt. If Scarlet is for real, then forget about these other guys... if and when.

Might as well state the obvious: there's an Internet Law specific to this particular market which states that any new camera announcement from any manufacturer will invariably and inevitably draw a comparison to RED. I think that's remarkable.

I would definitely like to see a full packaged Red Scarlet with an interchangeable lens included for $3,700. If that comes out at around the same time as this NXCAM than yes it will make a dent.

Lest wait until we see the prices and dates first.

Should this be a reason for a new acronym?! I propose... FRED (sorta like FUD)

Fear... I will buy the wrong camera just as RED announces something?

Ridicule - from everyone waiting for RED because I bought and used something else...

Ephemera - the promise of "something" ghost like on the horizon that makes my camera an obsolete piece of junk...

Doubt - well, we all know the minute you buy some new tech gadget it's "obsolete" and replaced by something better, so why does this still surprise us???

As for the NXCAM pricing, I hope Sony prices it with a mindful eye on competitive products rather than just within their own products. The big jack-up of the EX-1R price is not encouraging. The new features incorporated in the EX-1R are nice but there is no way they justify the BIG price increase. Personally, I resent that; it makes it seem like a ripoff. If Sony's marketing staff are looking outward to the market rather than inward to their company's politics, we should see a reasonable price for the NXCAM - time will tell. As for now, it doesn't even have a model number yet.

I have a Mini DV tape deck taken from a camcorder here in front of me, and it's an eye-popping assembly of tightly-toleranced, delicate, beautiful, complex and tiny parts. OK, they've been building these for 15 years now but even so, when you look at it you want to breathe the other way for fear of upsetting the micro-engineering balance of the thing.

Then the NXCAM pops up and all this delicate electromechanical engineering is jettisoned, and in its place is a couple of card slots with a few gold-plated edge contacts. Boy, look at the space saving! Look at the increased reliability (and fewer warranty returns). Look at the cost savings in build, test and number of parts used.

It looks to me as I marvel at the intricate workings of this tape deck that the NX should in fact be loads cheaper than the Z5 to produce. The fact that it won't be reflects Sony's market position, justifiably earned in my view.

tom.

The EX1R costs $6,300 at B&H in case you didn't know. The difference in price isn't really that much compared to the older EX1.
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produc...M_EX_Full.html