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-   -   My nx70 tests (https://www.dvinfo.net/forum/sony-nxcam-avchd-camcorders/497470-my-nx70-tests.html)

Gerald OConnor June 21st, 2011 04:24 PM

My nx70 tests
 
It just arrived and the battery is charging, feels pretty solid hope it takes video as good as it looks. The little dc charger compartment covers is a little bit in the way when charging, hard to plug in the power cord but that's no big deal.

Gerald OConnor June 21st, 2011 08:00 PM

Re: My nx70 tests
 
Been shooting a little in auto and manual modes and im very impressed so far. Need to open the book up a test out some manual mode stuff. The macro mode is the best I have ever used and seen in a video camera so far.

Mike Beckett June 22nd, 2011 06:33 AM

Re: My nx70 tests
 
The great thing about this is that you'll find you don't have to charge batteries very often, this camera seems to run forever on one battery! The NP FV100 highest capacity battery is excellent.

Ron Evans June 22nd, 2011 06:47 AM

Re: My nx70 tests
 
I can only comment on the CX700 which after a 2 hour theatre show using the FV100 battery is still showing over 6 hours of battery time left !!! In comparison the 970 battery on my NX5U is down to 2 hours.

Ron Evans

Gerald OConnor June 22nd, 2011 06:28 PM

Re: My nx70 tests
 
This is the only clip that Vimeo would convert for me and it's Dolby audio all the others are LPCM

YouTube - ‪Sony nx70 1080p60 macro test‬‏
Macro test LPCM audio somno damn sound lol

Matt Sharp June 22nd, 2011 08:15 PM

Re: My nx70 tests
 
Gerald I see you have both the XA10 and the NX70, could you snap a few pictures of them side by side for a size comparison?

Gerald OConnor June 22nd, 2011 08:33 PM

Re: My nx70 tests
 
AVS Forum

AVS Forum

AVS Forum

A few quick pics

Matt Sharp June 23rd, 2011 04:43 AM

Re: My nx70 tests
 
Thanks! Wow the NX70 looks huge next to the Canon. Too bad Sony didn't include a zoom rocker on the handle, still won't stop me from getting it though.

Mike Beckett June 23rd, 2011 05:50 AM

Re: My nx70 tests
 
Hi,

Any chance of some pics on here? The other forum is asking me to register, and I don't really want to have to do that. Thanks in advance.

Gerald OConnor June 23rd, 2011 06:21 AM

Re: My nx70 tests
 
Wow sorry about that, my IPhone pics would not post to this forum but did on AVS. I will try to get to my city computer with Internet today, I live in the woods crappy Internet service wouldn't upload.

Mike Beckett June 23rd, 2011 06:46 AM

Re: My nx70 tests
 
Excellent - thanks! This is a useful comparison for a lot of people. I nearly bought the XF100 or XA10, then Sony came up with the NX70, my perfect camera.

Gerald OConnor June 23rd, 2011 08:59 AM

Re: My nx70 tests
 
7 Attachment(s)
Here are My pics of the xa10, and nx70

Mike Beckett June 23rd, 2011 10:19 AM

Re: My nx70 tests
 
Thanks for the photos, Gerald!

That XA10 really is tiny! Great little camera too, by all accounts, but I'm not sure my giant hands would be good with that.

Gerald OConnor June 23rd, 2011 02:37 PM

Re: My nx70 tests
 
Here are some low light tests for the nx70 and canon xa10
room lite with a 60 watt energy bulb



Troy Moss June 23rd, 2011 03:03 PM

Re: My nx70 tests
 
Thanks for comparing the Canon XA10 and the Sony NX70 for low light. Looks like the Sony NX70 stands firm in this category when compared to the Canon XA10. I will do night testing (outside) this weekend and will try to post early next week.

Gerald OConnor June 23rd, 2011 05:26 PM

Re: My nx70 tests
 
I don't notice any nx70 focus issues but someone commented they did. I also think both did very well in low light but feel canon was a little better. Thanks

Adam Palomer June 23rd, 2011 06:40 PM

Re: My nx70 tests
 
I opened these clips in two different browser tabs, paused the two on matching frames and then switched back and forth between the two. From that, I was able to see that in auto mode the Sony's low light performance was slightly better. As for manual mode, well, that was a bit tricky. I'm not sure.

Gerald OConnor June 23rd, 2011 06:54 PM

Re: My nx70 tests
 
Adam the more I look at it I think Sony in all auto best gets the colors correct at full zoom but it's a bit blown out orange/red wide angle the manual settings are most likely me and poss white balance I used indoor WB on all tests both cameras. I could properly do much better after useing white card for MWB. The canon seems brighter and sharper putting my pick for canon at this point need to do a bunch more tests.

Adam Palomer June 23rd, 2011 10:27 PM

Re: My nx70 tests
 
Gerald,

Thank you for that explanation. The Sony does seem to retain better color in low light.

My experience is that manufacturers sometimes set White Balance presets at slightly different values. So the Indoor preset could be different on each camera.

I think the best way to compare the two in manual mode would be to set them both on a table next to each other and cancel all the auto settings. It's best if the light source (60 Watt bulb) was to the side of the camera or behind the camera. That way, lens flare and other possible optical distortions won't affect the cameras.

Iris
Shutter speed
Gain
Frame rate
Resolution (480, 720, or 1080)
Focus
Manual white balance
Scene modes (should be turned off)
Image stabilization (Off)
Interlace vs. Progressive


All the above should be done manually.

Given that the aperture of lenses usually changes as one zooms in or out, I think matching the focal length on the two cameras is the scientific thing to do. So since the Sony has a wider lens (26mm), I suppose you could zoom it in a little to match the Canon's 30.4mm.

Also, I don't know if the Canon has a Backlight feature or an Extended Focus feature, but these settings should probably be looked at, too.

Final note: It's possible that in Auto Mode the Sony is programmed to boost the gain to 24dB while the Canon is programmed to boost it to 18dB. I don't know that for a fact, but it's a possibility that should not be discounted.

Ron Evans June 24th, 2011 05:51 AM

Re: My nx70 tests
 
I think you may find the picture is better in auto mode on these small single chip cameras. Rather than going full manual I have found it better to tell the auto controls what I would like done to the picture. There is AE shift ( make it darker or lighter) and WB shift. The NX70 has an advantage over the CX700 in that one can set gain limit. But even at full 21db gain the CX700 seems to have less grain than my NX5U at 12db !!!

One has to be careful in comparing models to not measure based on a manual set only. Much like evaluating cars on how fast they will go in third gear of an automatic transmission !!!

I use my CX700 and XR500 as full stage fixed unattended cameras for my shows with my NX5U in full manual. The CX700 and XR500 are set with AE shift at max negative shift with auto scene detection on. The only part of any scene that is over exposed are obvious stage hot spots that I cannot avoid with the NX5U at any setting either and both these little cameras ignore these poor lighting instances and correctly expose for the main stage in almost all conditions. The one area they do not manage is a black stage with one spot light on an actor. If I zoom in with either the CX700 or XR500 they will switch to spotlight mode and correctly expose. They will also manage focus to maintain max depth of field and will alter WB depending on scene detect or if faces are detected.

Sometimes I really wish the NX5U had some of the smarts in these little cameras !!!!

Ron Evans

Adam Palomer June 24th, 2011 06:24 AM

Re: My nx70 tests
 
Ron,

You make an interesting point and it makes sense. But, from a practical point of view, if a camera performs in auto mode better than it does in manual mode, then doesn't that defeat the purpose of investing so much in a camcorder?

I personally like manual controls as they provide me with the artistic freedom to adjust the image to my liking. At the same time, if I can accomplish the same results with a $500 camcorder instead of a $3000 camcorder, then it's obvious which I would pick.

At the end of the day, at least for my needs, I would pick the camera that performs better under full manual control, with no factory presets. I don't doubt that one can achieve better results using a mix of the two, manual and auto, like you suggest. However, it's something that I personally never liked when interacting with electronics. I mean, when I set an iris to 1.8f I know that it will let in more light. But, with consumer cameras, the various AE settings and scene modes turn the whole shooting process into a guessing game. But, like I said, that's my own biased preference.

Ron Evans June 24th, 2011 09:33 AM

Re: My nx70 tests
 
I agree in terms of artistic freedom that manual controls are the way to go. Just don't confuse freedom with better video quality. A lot of engineers spent a lot of time designing a computer to make judgements at lightning fast speed to get the best shot. Much faster than a humans fingers !!! If you want to do something not possible in editing then I agree manual control at source is the way to go. However for full artistic freedom a DSLR may be a better choice for less money than the NX70.

The attraction of the NX70 over the CX700 to me is the manual controls so I am not pushing full auto mode for everything. Also the attraction of the NX70 over the NX5U for me is some of the automatic controls that the NX5U lacks. Different tools for different jobs.

Ron Evans

Jean Philippe Stuart June 24th, 2011 01:31 PM

Pcm or dolby?
 
Hey Gerald, on the macro video posted on Youtube, why the PCM (camera factory setting apparently) didn't work?

Gerald OConnor June 27th, 2011 01:19 PM

Re: My nx70 tests
 
Well after a lot of little tests I sent it back. The main reason was no pcm sound playback in 1080p60. A 3k camera should not do this and at this price point I want it to just work not have little issues. Two things I hated with this camera was the zoom rocker's speed and the import software. Two things I loved about this camera was it's nice sharp/color video and the macro function. I have to say in auto mode the camera did great. Another little issue I had and I posted on my vimeo site
was in good daylight it would lose focus while panning and had a hard time re-locking on. I wished it did better for me but it had to many little issues for me to keep it.

Ron Evans June 27th, 2011 01:44 PM

Re: My nx70 tests
 
I think the PCM sound issue is an NLE issue rather than the camera. What NLE are you using? I think the camera focused really quick from your Vimeo video. I don't think any camera will do much better with the speed that you were panning in the beginning over the cars. It focused really quick in the other shots when you zoomed in to various items.

The zoom control on my CX700 is also very sensitive much worse than the XR500 or SR11. I expect its the same with just the lever changed.

Cannot comment on your install of the software or its operation with the NX70 but both the CMU for my NX5U and the MBS for the consumer cameras work great.

If you operate in automatic most of the time and do not need the XLR audio or water proofing the CX700 may be a better choice and save $2000.

Ron Evans

Mike Beckett June 27th, 2011 01:49 PM

Re: My nx70 tests
 
I find the auto focus very good indeed, but everyone's use is different.

The zoom rocker does make it tough to get a slow crawl, I haven't had any joy with that. But I don't really zoom that much - and when I do, it's on tripod, with a lanc control. It's great for crash zooms and for framing.

I was out with the camera again this past weekend (footage to follow) and couldn't be happier with it. I'll be happier when a 37mm fader ND is available to cope with ultra-bright weather.

Peter Erfurt June 27th, 2011 03:04 PM

Re: My nx70 tests
 
I think that you'll find that using the zoom-controls on the touchscreen is MUCH superior to do slow zooms than the physical rocker. Try it out, and I bet you'll be surprised.... :-)

Troy Moss June 27th, 2011 07:20 PM

Re: My nx70 tests
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Gerald OConnor (Post 1661132)
Here are some low light tests for the nx70 and canon xa10
room lite with a 60 watt energy bulb


canon xa10 lowlight test auto settings on Vimeo

Sony NX70 Light all auto settings on Vimeo

If you pause the two "Auto Setting" videos at 20 seconds, you will clearly see the low light winner is the Sony! Compare all the colors on the teddy bear in the video too.

Gerald OConnor June 28th, 2011 03:35 AM

Re: My nx70 tests
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Ron Evans (Post 1662165)
I think the PCM sound issue is an NLE issue rather than the camera. What NLE are you using? I think the camera focused really quick from your Vimeo video. I don't think any camera will do much better with the speed that you were panning in the beginning over the cars. It focused really quick in the other shots when you zoomed in to various items.

The zoom control on my CX700 is also very sensitive much worse than the XR500 or SR11. I expect its the same with just the lever changed.

Cannot comment on your install of the software or its operation with the NX70 but both the CMU for my NX5U and the MBS for the consumer cameras work great.

If you operate in automatic most of the time and do not need the XLR audio or water proofing the CX700 may be a better choice and save $2000.

Ron Evans

I was useing Sony Vegas Pro 10.d I also tried to upload to Vimeo and any clips that I have raw in 1080p60 with PCM will not upload and convert gives errors. If I used dolby it was fine. The sound played fine direct from camera to tv. I don't use my cameras in auto that much mostly manual settings but the nx70 was great in auto. I will post a xa10 clip same panning never lost focus when the Sony lost focus it reminded me of it's little brother cx560 who could not stay in focus. When I had my nx5u I only lost focus in lowlight areas never in daylight. I hope they fix the PCM issues it could be a great camera. I may go back to the xf 100 or the xf300. I also like the Sony fs100.

Gerald OConnor June 28th, 2011 03:38 AM

Re: My nx70 tests
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Peter Erfurt (Post 1662190)
I think that you'll find that using the zoom-controls on the touchscreen is MUCH superior to do slow zooms than the physical rocker. Try it out, and I bet you'll be surprised.... :-)

Sent it back, never tried the LCD zoom but I did a bunch of hand zooms but they looked jurkie not being smooth like a good slow rocker could do.

Ron Evans June 28th, 2011 06:49 AM

Re: My nx70 tests
 
What project setting were you using in Vegas? Camera clearly works fine since it plays back to your TV correctly. Would be interested in any other users who have tried PCM audio with Vegas or Edius.

Your experience of NX5U is different to mine as I can never really get my NX5U to focus well in auto. Yes it doesn't change much when I pan is true unfortunately it is rarely in focus that way either ! Just like my FX1 the NX5U seems to focus on a spot that I am never interested in !!! Always run both in manual. They are only ever used in low light theatre so that may be the issue but in the same conditions the small Sony's ( SR11, XR500 and CX700) lock in focus fast.

Ron Evans

Gerald OConnor June 28th, 2011 07:22 AM

Re: My nx70 tests
 
Hi Ron there has been a bunch of us complaining on the PCM Bug
http://www.dvinfo.net/forum/open-dv-...p-windows.html
I tried numerous ways in Vegas and was unlucky, there may be a way but I couldn't find it. It works well in Dolby but if PCM is better I want it to work. It properly I'd a firmware issue for the camera.

Ron Evans June 28th, 2011 08:00 AM

Re: My nx70 tests
 
I don't think its the camera at all since the playback is fine to the TV. It is the NLE's not decoding both 60P and PCM audio. That is why I asked about project settings. PCM audio was an issue when the NX5U first came out as I think only Vegas and Edius could playback the audio. Neither Premiere or FCP would recognize the PCM audio in an AVCHD stream.The same is now likely true for 60P and PCM audio. It would be good if someone would try the 50P/ 60P with PCM in Edius. For project settings in Vegas was 60P ( double NTSC in Vegas properties) selected ? There isn't a preset for 60P in my copy of Vegas so to set up a timeline one must create a preset from the 60i preset. Set field order to non progressive and rate to double NTSC. and save as the 60P preset. The timecode may effect the way PCM is played.

Ron Evans

Mike Beckett June 28th, 2011 08:20 AM

Re: My nx70 tests
 
Ron,

Check the other thread - Claire tried my "problem file" in Edius and the sound was fine. The other NLEs and other playback software just need to catch up. It looks (hopefully) as if this is not a camera problem.

Ron Evans June 28th, 2011 09:02 AM

Re: My nx70 tests
 
I knew Claire has a Panasonic 50P camera and edits in Edius so it is as I expected. Vegas dealt fine with my NX5U PCM audio, in fact camera came with a copy of Vegas. I just wondered if the timecode has an affect on playback. Have you tried PCM audio with interlace?

Ron Evans

Mike Beckett June 28th, 2011 09:05 AM

Re: My nx70 tests
 
Ron,

As per other thread - every combination of audio and video works fine with PCM, except 50p/60p.

So 50i PCM, 25p PCM are fine, as are all the Dolby Digital options.

I didn't think to try the time code settings, I might have a play with that later to see if it makes any difference. I honestly don't think it will help, but you never know.

Edit: fiddling with all the timecode settings, it didn't make any difference.

Jim Stamos June 28th, 2011 01:25 PM

Re: My nx70 tests
 
hey ron,
im surprised that the zoom on this cam is so sensitive and you cant get a nice -slow one. as weve talked before when i got my cx550, it has the same chipset and similar in most ways except for the xlrs and other minor features. my cx gives me a very controlled zoom and this is the consumer line. i wsa going to get the 70 as a compliment to my ex1r and the cx but the zoom deal is discouraging me now. hopefully sony will see this as a major issue. i remember playing with the 70 at nab and the zoom was very fast. i thought it being a prototype this would be fixed. obviously not.
too bad for those that plunked down 2800.00 for it.

Ron Evans June 28th, 2011 01:36 PM

Re: My nx70 tests
 
Jim I don't think it is similar to the CX550 it is similar to the CX700. Chip set is different as are a lot of other things. LANC control of my CX700 works great so it is the mechanical action that is the issue and is obviously carried over to the NX70. The new menu of the NX70 as well as the manual controls look great over the CX700. I don't need the water proofing or the XLR so I am still pondering on getting the camera.

Ron Evans

Jean Philippe Stuart June 28th, 2011 04:07 PM

Re: My nx70 tests
 
What's you guys opinion comparing this camera with the Sony AX 2000. And any luck with uploading and editing in FCP6 or 7 or X?

Gerald OConnor June 29th, 2011 07:37 PM

Re: My nx70 tests
 
This is the canon xa10 test I did to compare to the focus walking test I did with the nx70

xa10

nx70

I have documenting this swing set project for my two young sons so when there older they can laugh at me when I tell them how long and how much money it cost for this free swing LOL thanks for looking.


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