Difficult decision: Get an NX70 or something else?
 

I have been doing a ton of research on various cameras trying to find the best one. The NX70 seems like a good solution, but I'm a bit hesitant based on some of the negative comments, and the zoom rocker. The new firmware is due out tomorrow actually, so I'm waiting to see how that works out. I want to hear the feedback. The reason I like the NX70 are:

- 3 CMOS sensors.
- dual XLR inputs.
- shoots 1080p/60.
- ** new firmware adds 30p also, which I thought was a glaring ommision.
- waterproof: the main use for this will be outdoor garden, nature videos, so rain/sprinklers, etc are always possible.
- More manual capabilities than the consumer versions
- SD card (my current camera is MiniDV - I'm done with Tapes!)
- 28Mb/s, a bit better quality than the standard 24
- Low light performance, this is useful in certain evening and early morning situations.

I've looked at the possibility of the soon-to-be released CX7600. That lists at $1500, so quite a bit less expensive, but does not have all of the above features.. maybe it's worth it?

Other options are the Canon XF100.. some things I don't like about the XF100:
- no 1080p/60, only 720p/60
- uses compact flash
- unfamiliar with the MXF format..
- single sensor.

I've seen the NX70 listed as NX70, NX70U, and even NX70F.. are these different variants? Is there a way to make sure you get the most recent build from Sony, and the possibility of a fix or two in hardware? I'm not sure what the -U, or -F mean.

Any thoughts about this purchase would be greatly appreciated.. I never expected to have this much trouble buying a camera..

Cheers,

Ed

Re: Difficult decision: Get an NX70 or something else?
 

The NX70U is a one-chip camcorder.

Re: Difficult decision: Get an NX70 or something else?
 

Oh.. yes, I got confused between the NX5U and the NX70..

The NX5U has 3 1/3" sensors, while the NX70 has a single 1/2.88".

The NX5U is listed at $3,999 on BH. That is $1200 more than the NX70. I would perhaps consider an NX5U, but I was disappointed to see that it does not support 1080p 60.

I did not mention in the original post, but I also do some sports video, tennis specifically. So the progressive capture formats, in 60FPS are quite important to me. The NX5U has 720p60, which is okay, but they also have a sports capture mode that captures in 60i. I've done a fair amount of work with sports video, and capturing interlaced is not desirable in general.

Normally you split the interlaced video into two half-resolution frames. This is usually a pain to accomplish, but yields 60fps on a standard MiniDV camera.

I was really hoping to have a camera that captures 60p, and then I have the slow motion and full resolution. One thought though is, if the NX5U captures 1080i/60, which in fact means that it captures 120fps half-resolution, that could be quite impressive from a slow-motion perspective. But that still means one has to perform the deinterlacing, unless the camera has the means to do that for you.

Re: Difficult decision: Get an NX70 or something else?
 

NX70 is essentially a CX700 in a waterproof housing. With the XLR attached it isn't waterproof and there are lots of comments about the variable zoom controller. The CX700 zoom control is very sensitive but does work with a little practice very well. If you need the water proofing get the Sony waterproof housing for the CX700 or the newer CX760 when it is available. Will be a lot cheaper with likely the same performance. The XF100 is a more capable camera with a lot more controls. Just a little more than the NX70 the Panasonic AC130 would be a better camera too.

Ron Evans

Re: Difficult decision: Get an NX70 or something else?
 

The suffix designates the country/region of the camera. Other than that there's only one version of the camera. We're only just now getting a firmware update to "fix" the terrible zoom rocker it's had since release.

Having had an NX70 for 8 months I'll say unless you need the weatherproofing go for something else. The JVC HM150U and Canon XF100 look like a good alternatives if you don't want to jump up to the AX2000 price range.

Re: Difficult decision: Get an NX70 or something else?
 

Would the AX2000 be a good step-up option? The cost difference is not as great as the NX5U.

I cannot tell from the BH specs or the sony.com specs if the AX2000 shoots in 1080p60 or not, or even if it shoots in 720p60. I will have to find the manual for it and take a look.

It does have 3 CMOS sensors I believe.

Re: Difficult decision: Get an NX70 or something else?
 

Neither the AX2000 or the NX5U shoot in 1920x1080P60. The NX5U will shoot in 1280x720P60 but I do not think the AX2000 does. One of the differences of many from the NX5U. I think the Panasonic AC130 is a better buy at the moment. Will have to see if Sony brings out something new at NAB next month. If you do not need a camera right now I would wait until after NAB.

Ron Evans

Re: Difficult decision: Get an NX70 or something else?
 

60i is 60 exposures/fields nominally a sec ( 59.94 actually) at half vertical resolution. This is what I shoot all the time on my NX5U. It has the same temporal motion as 60P just half the vertical resolution. Depending on the playback system this can look just as good as progressive. ( ie my Sony 240hz LCD I see no difference between the 60i from the NX5U and the 60P from my CX700) Extracting stills there is of course a big difference. I make interlaced DVD's so I always use a 60i timeline to edit anyway.

Ron Evans

Re: Difficult decision: Get an NX70 or something else?
 

Re. the waterproofing side of things. See my other post on the topic:

http://www.dvinfo.net/forum/sony-nxc...rproofing.html

It was, basically, pants in heavy rain, due to the sound and inability to use a zoom remote control. But mainly the sound.

Oddly, I had to buy a petrol raincover for it for future wet days. Go figure!

Ed - a good resource for user manuals, including the NX70 and AX2000 is here: http://www.humanvalues.net/hdv/pdf/

Re: Difficult decision: Get an NX70 or something else?
 

I just took a look at the AC130 manuals and brochure. While it does not support 1080p60, it does support 720p60, which is fine. It also supports over/undercranking, which is even better.. from what I can see, this camera meets or exceeds all of my requirements. It is more expensive, but it appears to be a better solution overall.

Re: Difficult decision: Get an NX70 or something else?
 

The AC130 is not waterproof, but, based on the various comments, the NX70 waterproofing isn't all it's cracked up to be anyway.. I do wish the AC130 had some higher bit rate captures, but that's about the only 'negative' I can see at the moment.

Re: Difficult decision: Get an NX70 or something else?
 

Ed,

The AC130 doesn't have under or overcranking, tht's the AC160. It seems to be a pretty good camera, one tht I have my longer-term sights set on.

The NX70 isn't the worst camera in the world, but it coul be a lot better. The ac130 has some issues too... No camera is perfect!

Re: Difficult decision: Get an NX70 or something else?
 

I was looking at the Panasonic brochure. I missed that it covers the 130 and the 160.

Re: Difficult decision: Get an NX70 or something else?
 

Can you elaborate on some of the AC130 issues.

Are they shared by the 160? I'm almost ready to just dive into the AC160 - the overcrank capability got me excited.

Re: Difficult decision: Get an NX70 or something else?
 

Ed,

The AC130 does allegedly have a "different" focus system. There's another forum which I won't mention here, with a whole raft of people unhappy with the focus.

On the other hand, a lot of others say it's a more "pro" system and you should either use manual focus or learn how to make the auto focus work for you.

It's not the end of the world, as I said I'm keen to get one of these cameras as soon as I save up.

What I'm trying to say is that every camera will have something that you're unhappy with, even the AC130/AC160. Nothing is perfect. It's just that the NX70E has a few howlers that should never have happened.

Re: Difficult decision: Get an NX70 or something else?
 

I think there will be new firmware for the AC160, not sure about the AC130 that will give 1920x1080P60 too. As Mike says nothing is perfect there are always compromises. I am happy with my combination of NX5U, CX700, XR500 and SR11. Would love a camera that had the combination of features these cameras have in one unit !!!!

Ron Evans

Re: Difficult decision: Get an NX70 or something else?
 

It records at the highest bit rate current for a 1920x1080 60i stream just like all the other manufacturers. Same rate for the NX5U, CX700, NX70 when they record 1920x1080 60i at their highest rate. The high 28Mbps mode is only for 1920x1080 60P recording AVCHD . If you look at the XF100 Canon the record format is totally different CODEC rates cannot be directly compared.

Ron Evans

Re: Difficult decision: Get an NX70 or something else?
 

i will suggest Canon XF100
50Mbit 4:2:2 is a very plus
and it does 1920x1080 60i

Re: Difficult decision: Get an NX70 or something else?
 

Yes, it does look like Panasonic is coming out with a firmware upgrade for 1080p 60. That would be really great. I've looked at a bunch of reviews and example videos on Vimeo, etc. related to the ac160.. I've nearly convinced myself to go with that unit.

Thomas, I've looked at the XF100.. that also looked like a good solution. It does have a lot of the features I'm looking for, like under/over cranking, and interval record. It's priced lower, but it does use CF cards, which is not as nice, although for $1000, I could buy a lot of CF cards. I'd like to see some reviews comparing the XF100 and AC160/130.

Ron, where could I learn a bit more about the format differences? I have Premier Pro CS5.5, so I'm confident I can use any of the formats, but the MXF does seem to be the odd-duck among the rest of the cameras. AVCHD seems much more common.

Re: Difficult decision: Get an NX70 or something else?
 

I think I could partially answer my own question comparing the XF100 and AC160.

The 22X Zoom is nice. Shooting outdoor nature shots, sometimes critters don't like you to get that close.
3 sensors should result in better video quality.
If a firmware update gives full 1080p60, that's a great win for motion video, like tennis and soccer shoots.
the AC160 has 3 manual rings. I'm sure I'll come to really appreciate those.
The AC160 has a better viewfinder.. about 2x the size, and way more resolution. Very helpful on outdoor shots.

Re: Difficult decision: Get an NX70 or something else?
 

Material Exchange Format - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia gives all the information I think you need. It is used by some of the Sony XDCAM cameras. Supported by most NLE's too native.

Ron Evans

Re: Difficult decision: Get an NX70 or something else?
 

I've decided to get the Panasonic AG-AC160. I'm going to "stretch" for this camera, and I don't expect I'll ever have to look back and feel like I should have gotten something better.. I might cry over the $$$, but I'm confident I'll be happy with the camera.

Cheers

Re: Difficult decision: Get an NX70 or something else?
 

I'm in the market for a new camera, but I have a tight budget. The NX70u looks promising, but there appear to be some negatives. Some of the complaints are from a user who was using 100% auto functions, so that might be the issues he was having. Is it true that there isn't a built-in ND filter? Also, how much smaller is it vs. the NX5u?

Thanks,

Heath

Re: Difficult decision: Get an NX70 or something else?
 

Heath,

The size can be seen here (sort of):

http://www.dvinfo.net/forum/sony-nxc...ze-camera.html

I reckon it's about half the size of the NX5, maybe 2/3rds the size with the mic on.

I have yet to see any evidence of an internal ND, and Sony have said as much (according to someone on Vimeo). No offence to other posters, but someone who has never touched the camera can't tell me there's an ND in there. One poster on here has seen some artefacts when pointing the camera into very bright light on auto. I've no idea whether this is evidence of a secret ND that Sony won't tell us about.

There's certainly no manual switchable ND.

To be perfectly honest, the camera isn't bad. The zoom rocker is a problem, which may or may not impact you. I get a bit upset at the excessive Chromatic Aberration in some conditions, but it's a small lens and these things are to be expected apparently.

Personally, I use manual exposure, and use a mattebox if I'm static, or a fader ND or B+W ordinary NDs if I need to control the light in bright weather. Or just stick it on full auto exposure if I'm in a hurry, it's not as bad as it sounds.

My main personal grief is that for my purposes, I probably should have bought a larger camera with more manual controls as buttons/dials rather than in touch screen menus. But it's too late to go back now!

Re: Difficult decision: Get an NX70 or something else?
 

Thanks a lot, Mike! I'm actually going to my local camera sales company tomorrow or Friday to check out both the NX5u and the NX70u. I have a feeling I'll end up with the NX5u, because I'm such a fan of the EX1. Btw, I had both of the cameras, EX1 and NX5u, about two years ago for a test. I'll have to dig up my notes, but it's been so long.

And I wish I could wait, because if Sony announces a replacement to the NX5u, it likely won't ship until September or later.

heath

Re: Difficult decision: Get an NX70 or something else?
 

If you get the NX5U make sure you search all the posts on picture profile etc. In stock setup the picture is not as good as the small Sony's. It took quite a while before I was happy that my NX5U was as good as my XR500 or CX700 !!! Things to watch are making sure that flicker reduction is OFF and also Macro focus is OFF as these really affect the sharpness of the image. Made a big difference on my NX5U. Focus is VERY critical.


Ron Evans

Re: Difficult decision: Get an NX70 or something else?
 

Thanks for the tips, Ron. It's funny, but 5-7 years ago, I was all about profiles and doing as much as possible in-camera, then only doing very minor color correction in post. My old friend/DP taught me that, and all the films he shot for me had minimal color correction done. It was the best way for a DP to preserve his or her original vision (with the director), so an editor doesn't go overboard. I know DPs that have it in their contract that they have final color, etc., approval.

Nowadays, especially with the "million" image settings, I tend to turn everything off and just get my white balance, then do more correcting in post. But that's strictly things I've shot and cut; if a DP shoots it, I let them finalize the colors.

Okay, sorry for going off-topic like that. I'm going to check out both cams tomorrow and report back.

Heath

Re: Difficult decision: Get an NX70 or something else?
 

I did a size comparison of the two after seeing them at my local dealer:

http://www.dvinfo.net/forum/sony-nxc...x5u-nx70u.html

No ND filter built into the NX70U; I'm going to get the NX5U.

heath

Re: Difficult decision: Get an NX70 or something else?
 

Great. Enjoy. Being used to the Sony's you will have no problem getting used to the NX5U.

I use my CX700 for family stuff like my recent ski trip and have a variable ND filter on it that makes shooting in the snow a lot better. I will be getting a HX20V when they come out to slip into my pocket and may give similar performance to the CX700.

Ron Evans

Re: Difficult decision: Get an NX70 or something else?
 

NX70U is very cool, but I do like the NX5U more.

heath