Re: New Sony HXR-NX30E Palmcorder with advanced Stabilization
 

The competition at the same price point in Canada is the Canon XA10 which does have full manual control. Canon XA10 $ 2200, NX30 $ 2300. The Canon XA10 doesn't come with mic,the balanced image stabilizer, projector or timecode of the Sony. Pays your money makes your choice. The automatic and semi-automatic controls of both are good and for such a small camera it is not easy to manually control hand held anyway. I still think the NX30 is a good B camera in support of a more pro camera with full manual control. The consumer equivalent in Canada is the PJ760 at $1599, no mic, larger battery, XLR etc,etc, at list price likely more than the price difference. Yes it would certainly be nice to have full manual control but I will not be using it that way so not of great significance. Timecode and image stabilizer are far more important as these will be very valuable for multicam where the NX30 is used in the crowd/audience and can be started and stopped yet still have the timecode for editing.

Ron Evans

Re: New Sony HXR-NX30E Palmcorder with advanced Stabilization
 

In Belgium the nx30 is 1000 dollar more expensive then the xa10, that's why I feel it's seriously overpriced... Guess I live on the wrong side of the pond :)

Re: New Sony HXR-NX30E Palmcorder with advanced Stabilization
 

I undertand the irritation that the camera does not have more pro features, at that price point. But, they prob made it specifically for one use. I for example working with production company making wilderness, arctic expedition documentary. Filming in condition where you often can't, or won't fiddle with to many settings. Capturing the moment where a bear is about to attack, you are canoeing down a river or in the middle of a snow storm, or are joust dead tired after 10 days on the sled. There are probably more uses this camera is also good for, and for me it is perfect. (I could have done without
The gps an projector, but they won't suck power as long as they are off)

Re: New Sony HXR-NX30E Palmcorder with advanced Stabilization
 

I think the NX30 will hold up OK against it's Canon price range competition because of it's very unique stabilization. However, because it offers very little separation against it's "Handycam" brothers, it's own siblings will probably eat into the NX30 sales the most.

I myself picked up a CX760 and was going to eBay it right afterwards to buy the NX30. After Alister posted the news that the NX30 contains the classic "Handycam crippling trick"...I figured it made no sense to spend the extra money just for an XLR handle. (I have an EX1r for that stuff anyway)

I'm especially shocked that the NX30 won't even display simple gain information during recording! If you are going to make the camera control it, at least do the courtesy of at least "showing" me the gain amounts.

Gain, iris and shutter speed. The three most BASIC functions of camera control...and a Sony "NXCAM" branded camera doesn't have them. (note,...I can list several "Handycam" branded cameras that DO have full manual control)

CT

Re: New Sony HXR-NX30E Palmcorder with advanced Stabilization
 

The nx30 is not dust nor rainprove like the nx70 so not sure if the camera would be the best choice under the circumstances you describe?

Re: New Sony HXR-NX30E Palmcorder with advanced Stabilization
 

100% agreed, it's actually shameful on Sony's part to actually pull that off not thinking that most buyers won't find out. Sad.

Re: New Sony HXR-NX30E Palmcorder with advanced Stabilization
 

I used the Sony HC1 for a long time and never had a problem with the semi-automatic controls. As long as you can lock exposure, your good.

Besides, what is there to change with small 1/3" cameras anyway? You open the iris until there is not enough light, then add gain. If there is too much light, you take the gain out, close the iris and add an ND. The camera did that automatically, very logically. I could stop it by just locking the exposure. As long as you can set the shutter somewhere and keep it there. Which you could.

I have no idea why some people want to control those manually. Unless you want to increase gain and still keep the aperture closed?

With DSLR's I get it and they are great in manual control. But videocams usually operate completely differently anyway.

Re: New Sony HXR-NX30E Palmcorder with advanced Stabilization
 

I tend to agree. The iris range to keep the camera in its sweet spot is small. True for any of the 1/3" cameras anyway. The camera will do this automatically when in semi auto mode. I think if someone is intending to use the camera on a tripod with full manual control then these little cameras are likely the wrong solution. They work best in full or semi auto mode handheld where the stabilizer is a real value. As I mentioned before the value I see in the NX30 is someone can be walking around taking handheld shots in auto with timecode still running to make editing easy later when the files are cut into the edit with a much more capable camera that is in full manual on a tripod or a full shoulder mount camera. The XLR and LPCM means that the audio is also high quality compared to the consumer model. I have three little Sony's SR11, XR500 and CX700 and have no problems with them unattended in semi auto mode and they mix well with my NX5U shots. I am thinking of getting the NX30 for two reasons over the CX700 I have or a PJ760 ( the close consumer version of the NX30 ) timecode sync with the NX5U and LPCM audio. In my case it will be on a tripod but unattended so good semi auto mode is important to me and if its as good as my other little Sony's it will be fine.

As an added piece of information. Looking at the data code the automatic system does not open the iris full before increasing gain. It first tries to keep the lens/iris in the sweet spot and increases gain to some point then opens the iris full then continues with gain until its at its max. I found that quite interesting when I found out. Does the same when its too bright by increasing shutter speed a little before closing down the iris to its max. I have a variable ND filter for outdoor use.
Ron Evans

Re: New Sony HXR-NX30E Palmcorder with advanced Stabilization
 

Do you use that on your cx760? How do you determine then what ND value to apply if you don't have any read out on the lcd screen in record mode about shutter, iris or iso?

Controlling the exposure manually is for me the most important function with a camera that only allows you to controll one function at a time, I do wish however I could lock the shutter as well to 1/50 and then use a variable nd filter to controll incoming light while keeping the iris around f4.0. Don't know if the nx30 alows settings feedback on the lcd screen during recording but on my cx730 I'm filming blind having no clue at what value the irs , shutter or iso is. I can only see that in playbackmode. Filming outside only means shutter values up to 1/500, nice to see every single grain of rice when a wedding couple exits the church but I"d rather have no saving private ryan image effects when shooting that.

Re: New Sony HXR-NX30E Palmcorder with advanced Stabilization
 

I don't have a CX760 I have last years model CX700. Other than the balanced image stabilizer I expect they are very similar in performance. I use the variable ND when I shoot in the snow while skiing. I turn the ND until the picture just starts to darken, meaning the iris is open, shutter will be at 1/60 and gain is then full. I then back off from that point a little. A little guess work but it has worked quite well and leaves the auto system room to adjust within a reasonable range. I usually have AE shift slightly negative at all times. Full negative when shooting in the theatre.

Ron Evans

Re: New Sony HXR-NX30E Palmcorder with advanced Stabilization
 

On these cameras, is there any method of using a filter witht he lens hood attached? My 760 came with a step down ring, no idea why. Any possibilities as I always like to use a CPL in bright light?

Re: New Sony HXR-NX30E Palmcorder with advanced Stabilization
 

The included step-down ring is to allow the camera to be fitted with Sony's own tele and wide converters or any other form of attachments with a 37mm thread. The downside in mounting those converters or any lens attachments such as filters is that the active OIS has to be switched off. The floating lens/sensor module design will understandably cause image distortions if a fixed optical element is placed in front of it.

Re: New Sony HXR-NX30E Palmcorder with advanced Stabilization
 

Even a CPL or ND filter?

Re: New Sony HXR-NX30E Palmcorder with advanced Stabilization
 

I haven't tried that but if you turn off the active OIS (standard OIS on or off) and the filters are of the thin rim type you should be OK.

Re: New Sony HXR-NX30E Palmcorder with advanced Stabilization
 

Hi! First time here. Have been into Photography for a long time, some Go Pro videos and now trying to shoot better videos with such camera [HXR-NX30E].
Coming from full frame cameras I am not impressed with the quality of the image, and that is just me needing to deal with it, it will never compare to a full frame photo. Unless of course much money for a much better video camera. This is what we have tough and will have to stick with it for a year at least.
I do have a "full range conversion lens" [x.75] coming, it is with the Telephoto that one needs to turn odd the "Active Steady" as that lens, like a moving eye ball will create distortion.
I am not happy neither about the fact that all functions "cannot" be manual as I am used to with Photos.
Realizing videos are so much an incredible learning curve and such a different animal than Photos.
I just learned the "low light settings" which will work well with this camera without producing noise
"low light" setting
AGC = off
Gain limited at 3dB
Shutter 1/30
Manual focus and pretty much leave it alone!
I use PE11, Vegas Pro is also on it's way. Shoot at PS 1080p
Will see how and where all this goes.
My Dog and I live and camp on the road full time, making a Documentary prompted me to be furnished with this camera.
If there are some good tutorials, please direct me with some links. If I am in the wrong section writing this, please also let me know. Thanks.
Stay well. Ara and Spirit

Re: New Sony HXR-NX30E Palmcorder with advanced Stabilization
 

I think you will find it works a lot better in automatic. If you want to bias the image use AE shift but the camera knows where the sweet spot in the design is and will try to keep the camera there as long as it can, impossible in manual control. The cameras are really meant for auto control and the manual controls are there as a tease for the users !!! After many years I have come to accept the auto does a better job !!! You can use spot focus to tell the camera what you want in focus and AE shift to tell it to make the image lighter or darker. For a crowd of people use face recognition and I challenge any manual user to do a better job of controlling all the parameters to give the best image for most of the people. In a split second.

Ron Evans

Re: New Sony HXR-NX30E Palmcorder with advanced Stabilization
 

I think I have to agree with you for 90% of the time. I say that because I shot a one hour Classical Performance in a dark room and the noise, well, just was not too good. Reason I did some research and came up with the settings I mention able in my first post. They work well.
I do this for fun BTW, so there is no pressure as I am realizing most everyone here is a Pro [???].
My Photoshop with Photos is patience. I don't use Photoshop, but for videos I am realizing it is not going to quite work the same way! I think I am expecting too much.
A good example was this morning in Big Bend Park when I manually adjusted the Exposure. Well, that was a mistake as with bright sun I got everything too dark. So much truth in what you are writing. Thank You.
Ara and Spirit

Re: New Sony HXR-NX30E Palmcorder with advanced Stabilization
 

Well video for me is a serious retirement hobby so not everyone is a Pro on these forums. Experiment with the semi auto modes like spot focus, spot exposure and spot focus/exposure as these can work quite well if you know how they respond. Leaving some control to the camera allows it to optimize to what it knows to be the best performance.

Ron Evans

Re: New Sony HXR-NX30E Palmcorder with advanced Stabilization
 

That can only happen if you assign the front button/wheel to iris, it will not happen if you assign it to "exposure". I control the exposure manually about 90% of the time because even though the auto controls are very good I don't want the camera to decide how to expose the image.

You are, if you want performance close to what a photocamera can do get a black magic cinema camera and shoot and edit in raw. The nx30 is basically a consumercamera with consumer functions (read almost everything auto) but don't think a 4000$ fixed lens small sensor camera will produce "that" much better image, you would be surprised how "clean" the nx30 can be at very high gains, it can even be cleaner and sharper then some large sensor camera's.

edit: welcome to the forum :)

Re: New Sony HXR-NX30E Palmcorder with advanced Stabilization
 

Thanks for the Welcome. A huge learning curve here. I was even thinking jumping to the NEX-EA50UH. We are every day in beautiful out of the way spaces and eventually I want to be able to put together about an hour and a half DVD. But, that is besides the point.
When you are writing about the Gain, I have it set for 3db for low lights, you mean open it up for bright lights.
I fully understand of course iris, exposure, f stop. Gain is something new.
Wish there was a tutorial on "how and why" of such settings which do not exist on a Photo Camera.
I like the size of the camera. We are on a motorcycle with a sidecar for my Dog Spirit camping full time for the past over 6 years and "room" is valuable!
Stay well. Ara and Spirit

Re: New Sony HXR-NX30E Palmcorder with advanced Stabilization
 

Hi and welcome to the forum
:-)
my understanding of Gain is that you could look at it the same way as a still camera uses ISO or in film cameras ASA. So Gain is the sensitivity to light hitting the sensor.

The NX 30's stabilisation system would make it great for shooting from the motorcycle.


Hope you can post up some stuff at some stage!

R.

Re: New Sony HXR-NX30E Palmcorder with advanced Stabilization
 

[QUOTE=Rob Cantwell;1782226]Hi and welcome to the forum
:-)
my understanding of Gain is that you could look at it the same way as a still camera uses ISO or in film cameras ASA. So Gain is the sensitivity to light hitting the sensor.

In a reverse way though. As the higher the ISO is in a photo camera the more noise it will create. In dim light I have read to try to stay at 3db. In sunlight probably go higher. I am actively looking for a Tutorial!!!

The NX 30's stabilisation system would make it great for shooting from the motorcycle.

I use Go Pros for the motorcycle. One facing Spirit and one behind him. You can look on You Tube under beemerchef. There are quite a few even lately have been recording Music in Terlingua. You will see him ride as you scroll down.

Anyhow, will try this camera a couple more days. B&H is who I always deal with, they are easy on exchanges even though that is really not the way I should go. [cost!!!].

Thank You... Ara and Spirit

Re: New Sony HXR-NX30E Palmcorder with advanced Stabilization
 

Here is a good article on gain. [You have a great website by the way, Retired? Busy with much fun...]

The truth about video gain and how to use it properly - Production Apprentice

Stay well. Ara and Spirit

Re: New Sony HXR-NX30E Palmcorder with advanced Stabilization
 

absolutely correct the higher the Gain / ISO the more noise will be introduced. I have a Sony NX5 which has Neutral Density filters - built in that you can apply by pressing a slider it has three settings, this is very good for preventing over-exposure and of course keeping the Gain low, I dont think the NX30 has these tho!

BTW great vids there on the tube, great looking dog nice bike too.
used to be a chain gang fella myself :-) had a F 650 GS. Sold it a few months ago :-(

R.

Re: New Sony HXR-NX30E Palmcorder with advanced Stabilization
 

Thanx did the site myself - took ages and ages!! Yeah no real job ;-)

I'm busy enough to keep me out of trouble, I still havent looked at enough tutorials, thats another one to put on the list!!

ok cya...

Re: New Sony HXR-NX30E Palmcorder with advanced Stabilization
 

I have an NX5U too which has lots of noise above about 6db of gain. The little Sony's are much better at 18db + in comparison. Just posted a quick video from my new NX30. Nothing fancy , all full auto. Original is 1920x1080 60P but on Vimeo it will have been re-encoded to 720 30P.



Ron Evans

Re: New Sony HXR-NX30E Palmcorder with advanced Stabilization
 

I know you do but you have to know how the camera is dealing with this, if you set the iris to manual, this camera is still compensating, not sure if it uses the gain (or in phototerms iso) to do this but it could also be a combination of gain and shutter. It is easy to see what the camera is doing though, when you playback the clip in camera you can see all the camera data live but I never bothered to check. Setting the camera to manual exposure allows gradual exposure changes without having the camera doing it for you.

Re: New Sony HXR-NX30E Palmcorder with advanced Stabilization
 

He is testing with a camera that produces a lot of grain and he also recommends against using it if you have sufficient light and if you can open up the iris. In theory that's correct but a nx30 or the cx line of Sony camera's are build to use high gains, they are very good at using it and they produce very little grain, even at 24db. So with these camera's there is nothing wrong with using higher gains, in fact you very quickly need to use it as they are not so sensitive at 0db gain and when you start zooming in they ramp very quickly so gain is your friend :)
My cx730 has less visible grain at 24db then my older Canon xh-a1 at 6db...

Re: New Sony HXR-NX30E Palmcorder with advanced Stabilization
 

Those 2 don't rime, the ea50 is like a small bazooka in length and is much more difficult to carry around. Then you might be better of with a nx70 which is still small in size, has a bit more manual control compared to a nx30 and is more dust and rain proof.

Re: New Sony HXR-NX30E Palmcorder with advanced Stabilization
 

You mean setting it to "auto exposure" as in manual such exposure is not going to change? I think that is the area being gray to me. You set one thing and it changes the other. For example if it is set on any "scene selection". the "WB", "iris" and "exposure" settings are canceled. Having "Automatic Gain Control" on "off" setting was for me to be able to shoot in dim light some Musicians without grain but set the dB at 3. So far that has worked.

I agree with that.

I am laughing here as yes! I cannot see me carry that "think" looking like a small canon! I had not seen the nx70, wish I had as we are indeed in the middle of much dust ans storms! I might exchange it for that model. That was the problem when I had a couple Mark 5D, the older model not dust proof and with no sensor cleaning. I had to send them back every 3 months to have the sensors cleaned. Almost 2 years now with the Mark II and never a problem. B&H is very good at exchanges, it would be a first for me as I do a lot of research before ordering an items, obviously not this time. I do want to end up, besides short videos I put on You Tube [I know Vimeo is better] with an hour and a half long Documentary on our Life on the road with all the remote locations we spend time in. Could be on a DVD or even a memory stick. Some are the size of a credit card with swinging stick on which one can also have a photo printed. Will continue testing footage today, these coming days.

I appreciate your follow up by the way. We are stopped for a bit to mainly decipher this camera. It is nice to get feed back with another owning the same camera. Coincidence also [off subject] we have the same Birthday! [not year]. I was born the 26th [officially the 28th, in Montpelier, France, long story]. I was in Jambes a while back, in the Namur Province, my Uncle and Aunt live there, nice little town on the Moselle watching the boats go by.

I am shooting BTW on PS 1080p 60.

Stay well. Ara and Spirit

Re: New Sony HXR-NX30E Palmcorder with advanced Stabilization
 

In some respects the little Sony's are always in automatic whatever the settings. Its really like a fly by wire system because it is not ever possible to set all the parameters manual, individually. It is only possible to set one of them and never gain. So one can set iris or shutter really. The difference between exposure and AE shift is for exposure the lightness or darkness is fixed by the setting you have chosen and in AE shift the relative lightness or darkness is fixed . In both cases the camera has decided what the individual parameters will be. In AE shift iAuto can be on too so it will change the parameters depending on its choice of scene selection dynamically adjusting for backlight etc My usual choice for the unattended cameras having used spot focus to set the focus.

When you set one of the parameters the camera uses the others to set exposure. AGC Off for the NX30 is under the Gain limit setting so AGC OFF in this context means there is no limit and the camera is in complete control. Setting a limit just limits the amount of gain that the camera will use. Knowing how good these camera are in comparison to my NX5U I will not bother to set a gain limit !!!!


Ron Evans

Re: New Sony HXR-NX30E Palmcorder with advanced Stabilization
 

I mostly set the exposure to manual and assign it to the front small wheel, when I'm filming in a dark environment the shutter will be a 1/50, the iris wide open and the gain or iso will go higher to compensate, if I would go outside and turn the small knob to adjust for exposure the gain will first go down, the iris will close and the shutter will increase. I don't have full manual control over gain, iris and shutter but when you assign the exposure to teh front wheel you at least have full controll over your exposure, if I get a strong backlight I can adjust accordingly and don't have to worry about the camera doing any funny stuff, I always have the zebras on so I will adjust the exposure based on those zebras and based on what I want to have exposed right, that's what the "exposure" function is for.

Outside your shutter will go up very high if you don't use a nd filter but I don't mind as for my kind of work that isn't such an issue, I also can't see what the camera is doing because all camera data is only visible in playback, rather funny way of Sony to cripple the camera. If you use a nd filter it's important to see how that affects other parameters so you can adjust, now you just have to guess. In that case it could be that you are applying gain outside when it's not unnecessary if you use a too strong variable nd but you don't know during filming.

I live close to the Dutch border so Namur (or as we call it in Flemisch: "Namen") is a 1,5 hour drive from my place. I bet the weather is a bit nicer where you live then here right now :)

Re: New Sony HXR-NX30E Palmcorder with advanced Stabilization
 

I think the NX70 shows the parameters which would be nice to see. Like Noa I have zebras set all the time too. When my wife uses one of the little Sony's as a closeup camera she has it in exposure mode just like Noa and adjusts based on the zebras. When I use the variable ND on the CX700 I set it so that the image just starts to go dark ( the point were shutter is at 1/60, iris is open and gain is max ) then I back off from this a little. Having looked at the data code I know that the Sony will bring down the gain a little then close down the iris a little too to get close to the lens sweet spot. I find this approach OK for skiing and better than having the shutter speed too high. With the NX70 or EA50 or the other NXCAM's one could actually see the ND effect in the on screen parameters. I would have liked this on the NX30 and I am sure it would have been possible. Typical Sony !!!!


Ron Evans

Re: New Sony HXR-NX30E Palmcorder with advanced Stabilization
 

It is so odd [yet normal] to be so well versed in Photography and so ignoramus in videos! Never had a second thought when using my Go Pros or for indoor the little S-95 [Canon] which truly did such a good job!
Well, I called B&H to see if I could exchange it for the 70 which would be weatherproof and have the ring instead of the little wheel, but I blew it as I have already send the CPU bar code off the box to get a free Vegas Pros 12, even though I use PE11. Oh! well... The camera is in a protected case and I am not out with cameras in sand storms or storms period. [anymore! use to].

Yes, the weather is Southern Texas is actually a bit too hot right now, almost hit 100 yesterday as I looked for Cottonwood trees to shelter a few hours. Headed north to Alaska soon. Many sights in between where we can get to with our 2 wheel drive / reverse Ural sidecar!

Will continue reading your posts for sure, all that info is slowly sinking! Slowly but surely. My big thing is I don't like noise in the images [of course, who does?]. Another odd thought I also forget [which might seem strange to yous], is the fact that videos are edited! The bad parts are cut off... That is a big jump from Photography, were the image IS the image...].

Stay well... Ara and Spirit

Re: New Sony HXR-NX30E Palmcorder with advanced Stabilization
 

As another long time Sony Handycam shooter, let me consolidate what already has been suggested...

Use "AEShift" set between -2 and -4 (now expressed as "EV", same difference) Sonys tend to overexpose a bit, this "fixes" that without having to fiddle with any other "manual" tweaks.

Turn on the "low lux" function, it will only kick in when you're dealing with very low light, but will get you a usable image in pretty bad lighting conditions, again without having to manually tweak things.

I too set the button/knob to exposure, gives you a "quick" override if you see the camera having trouble with a specific shot.

Spot focus/exposure is another way to "adjust" without having to manually tweak - it tells the "brains" what specific part of the frame you want the camera to adjust to.

There's a new "feature" called "My Button" buried in the camera menu, that lets you assign three functions to the left side of the touchscreen - not sure yet which 3 to pick, but thought I'd throw it out there since it's a rather obscure 'feature" you might never notice, and new on this generation of Sony cams!

Re: New Sony HXR-NX30E Palmcorder with advanced Stabilization
 

I have MY buttons set to Spot focus, Steadyshot, and guide frame ( for tripod setup ) . Dial button set to exposure or AE shift depending on use.

Ron Evans

Re: New Sony HXR-NX30E Palmcorder with advanced Stabilization
 

Actually just fumbling with it now. I don't know why I am having such hard time understanding all the overrides. I am leaving my gain at 3db for less noise and doing manual exposure. The camera is actually going back tomorrow to be traded with the 70 model. I was not aware it even existed. Bad research. I need weatherproof since camping 24/7 and I cannot stand that little dial by the lens. Will be without for a couple weeks.
Anyone knows how to determine how much time wise one has used such camera? Is it that clock upper right running the time? Has to be 2 hours or less.
Thanks. Ara and Spirit

Wondering if this forum has Tapatalk?

Re: New Sony HXR-NX30E Palmcorder with advanced Stabilization
 

Thanks for all the info Dave.
After all this, the camera has been mailed back this morning and awaiting for the NX70.
A bit more manual controls and the big thing for me is the "weatherproof" [realizing that the mic however is not]. When I had a Canon 5D it went back every 3 months to be cleaned [sensor]. I just don't want to be put in that situation. The little dial also by the lens really bugged me! I know it is the same camera, will never give me the clear image of a Mark II or III, but this as far as I can go now.
I might have to look for an NX70 thread now!
Stay well. Ara and Spirit

Re: New Sony HXR-NX30E Palmcorder with advanced Stabilization
 

The NX70 is a variant of the CX700 a 1 year older technology than the NX30. It does however have a few advantages in weather proofing and more indication on the LCD of exposure parameters. You have full manual control on the NX70 including gain ( not on any of the other little Sony's). But you can still operate just like the other Sony's in the semi auto modes that we have mentioned. I considered it when I bought my NX30 but really wanted the balanced Steadyshot for handheld stuff and I am happy with the semi auto uses that I have been used to with my other little Sony's ( SR11, XR500, CX700).

Enjoy

Ron Evans

Re: New Sony HXR-NX30E Palmcorder with advanced Stabilization
 

Will see how the "Optical Steady shot" is. I am always using a tripod either way. My hands are just not that steady! Too much riding off road, [including neuralgia in my neck!]. Will let you updated after Friday.
Stay well... I am still reading all the posts and more posts! Ara and Spirit