B-camera to accompany the NX70: the Sony HDR-GW77
 

The main point of the NX70 is that it is tough: waterproof and dustproof. Now Sony has come up with a consumer waterproof model that has most of the features of the NX70, but substantially smaller and tougher, specifically almost identical in parts and capabilities to the new mid-range Sony HDR-CX580: same sensor, 10X optical zoom, active mode steady shot optical, 3" 920k screen, touch focus, mic level adjustment, 108060p mode, f1.8-f3.4 G lens, etc. But waterproof here means actually means submersible to 16 feet.

Given the upgrades in resolution in the 2012 camera line, I would suspect that in good and moderate light the GW77 resolution and color will be the same, if not better, than the NX70. The stabilization is the same; the power zoom is probably superior.

What the GW77 lacks is all of the manual controls: you can have manual WB and focus (including finger spot focus), and there is control over exposure. But no fixing the shutter or aperture. But this is a tough-guy B-roll, not a substitute.

Here is a video straight from the camera, using the telemacro mode, which allows close-ups with narrow dof:


Here are frame grabs from the video straight from the camera:

http://i849.photobucket.com/albums/a...7111505512.jpg
http://i849.photobucket.com/albums/a...7111528404.jpg
http://i849.photobucket.com/albums/a...7111523572.jpg


Now, in tele macro mode, I am not sure whether you are seeing extended zoom or purely optical zoom (active mode was on), but the resolution and color looks good. If this is extended zoom, I would supect that the resolution would be even higher without active mode.

Re: B-camera to accompany the NX70: the Sony HDR-GW77
 

Looks like it might share a lot with the future POV camera Sony announced. Both look interesting.

Ron Evans

Re: B-camera to accompany the NX70: the Sony HDR-GW77
 

Of course, the main advantage is you can take videos when it really rains.

A GW77 frame grab in very wet conditions:

http://i849.photobucket.com/albums/a...7141611302.jpg

Re: B-camera to accompany the NX70: the Sony HDR-GW77
 

‘What next’ springs to mind! I love it; shirt-pocket 60p HD. I want one. I need one. I must have one! (I never go out in the rain.)

Questions Mark, if I may. How does the video image quality compare with the NEX 5n (which I find not so wonderful) and how good is the image stabilization compared to Sony’s other small sensor cameras such as the HX200v or the CX700v, do you know? And how do you find the pistol grip compared to the two handed approach when using a dslr type camera?

Cheers...

Re: B-camera to accompany the NX70: the Sony HDR-GW77
 

1. Stabilization. It is exactly the same as the big, small sensor Sony camcorders and the Hx200v, except for the new CX760, which has the new "balanced" stabilization. Same as the CX580 - steady-shot optical + active mode + 4-way roll stabilization.

2. How does it compare to the NEX-5N? I am not sure what you do not like about that camera's video. If it is moire, the GW77 has none. TheGW 77 is sharper. You can view and download comparable videos. The video above (GW77)


and this video (NEX-5N),


are videos taken of the same garden with the GW77 and the NEX-5N (one year apart). You can directly compare - same photographer, same concept video, same place, same lighting conditions. You can certainly see some dof differences.

3. The form factor I find comfortable - you can shoot stably with one hand, and it is no less steady. It is not only smaller, it is much lighter than the big ones that have the exact same capability and quality. And no worry about bumps, dust or water.

One difference is that the GW77 video is shot almost all in max telephoto mode; I believe it is even sharper at normal focal lengths.

Having just viewed these videos, it is clear the GW 77 is visibly sharper, and even the bokeh is not that different.

Re: B-camera to accompany the NX70: the Sony HDR-GW77
 

Thanks for your reply, Mark; the HDR-GW77 appears to be a great little shirt-pocket video camera - a nice addition to the kit bag. The NEX is a great stills camera but I find it a bit soft when it comes to video. I was thinking it might be a one-device solution; that is a good video cam and a good photography camera but for my type of shooting it is not the answer. I have the E 18-200mm F3.5-6.3 OSS and while it delivers very good photographs I am less than enthusiastic about the video. I conclude that it is not the lens that leads to softness but rather the post capture processing. Whatever, it has its place. For my wildlife walk-abouts I much prefer my HX200v (reach and stabilization) but often end up taking both; the HX200v for video and the NEX 5n for stills. If for whatever reason I can only take one then it’s the HX200v as it does shoot half-decent stills also.

But a shirt-pocket HX200v (nowhere near the reach admittedly) is interesting.

Again, thanks.

Re: B-camera to accompany the NX70: the Sony HDR-GW77
 

It does permit videos of wildlife in the rain (which are rarely seen)! You do get good quality extended out to 17X.

Re: B-camera to accompany the NX70: the Sony HDR-GW77
 

Some human urban wildlife, including in the rain and at night:

Clean HDMI 1080 signal straight from the sensor from the GW77
 

The Sony HDR GW77 puts out an HDMI signal straight from the sensor, with no icons or anything ("clean"). The signal continues to go out in record mode as well. Clean as whistle.

Here is video proof:

Sony HDR GW77 Test: Does the Sony HDR GW77 have clean HDMI output? Yes! - YouTube

The first part of the clip shows the output on an HDMI monitor; the next shows both the GW77 and monitor: the LCD on the GW77 has icons. The HDMI-attached monitor screen does not.

You can thus attach an HD recorder, and record at 250Mbps, not just the 28Mbps the camera does! And of course an external (portable) monitor with focus peaking, zebras, false color; the works.

The video was shot with the Sony Hx9v. Its HDMI out signal is unclean (icons) and, when you go into record mode, HDMI out stops completely. Most DSLRs do not have clean HDMI out signals. Most camcorders do not either (maybe the red record dot
shows up externally).

Re: B-camera to accompany the NX70: the Sony HDR-GW77
 

That's really something Mark. I have a Sony PJ740 (CX720, CX730, CX740, CX760 etc)
Do you think it allows clean HDMI recording to an Atomos Ninja or HyperDeck Shuttle as well?
Cheers

Re: B-camera to accompany the NX70: the Sony HDR-GW77
 

Very likely - easy to check, just attach an HDMI cable to the camcorder and an HDTV (set auto HDMI out) and look at the screen. Disable any viewfinder guidelines if you have them. The GW77 does indeed work with the Ninja 2, and one can record simultaneusly AVCHD and the high-bitrate codec of the Ninja on its storage.

Audio from the Sony HDR-GW77
 

Most pros know that audio in video is very important. Turns out the GW77 has a remarkable ability to capture audio - the full dynamic range.

This short video includes clips (from one event) with sounds ranging from a distant ship's bell, a soft harmonica playing, through a capella human voice, chorus, steam engines and then the start of an airplane engine shot about 8 feet away.

Here is the video:


Here is a computer screen shot of the audio track, where you can see the dynamic range captured:

http://i849.photobucket.com/albums/a...SoundTrack.jpg

Re: B-camera to accompany the NX70: the Sony HDR-GW77
 

Actually, maybe it's more than a B-camera:

Re: B-camera to accompany the NX70: the Sony HDR-GW77
 

Hi Mark. Been reading what you have to say about the GW77. Am seriously thinking of getting it. I shoot a lot of scenery, some wildlife, and lots of trains (real and model). I currently have a Sony SR11, Sony FX7. Would the GW77 compliment my camcorders? Could I use it for good scenery shots with a tripod Yellowston NP and Grand Teton NP?

Thanks.
Mike

Re: B-camera to accompany the NX70: the Sony HDR-GW77
 

The GW77 would be sharper than the two camcorders you have, but the colors would likely match well. One issue is that the GW77 can shoot at 108060p, and the other camcorders cannot, and it is at that spec that you get the really great performance. Indeed even at 108060i the GW77 can shoot at a higher bitrate than the SR11 (24Mbps versus only 17Mbps). You would then have to mix the 108060p with 108060i in editing, but this is readily done (the FX7 actually can only shoot at 1440x1080 interlaced). Being sharper really matters for scenics, where there are a lot of small details.

I do not know how dim light performance would compare - there has been a lot of advances in sensor and processor technology since those camcorders were released.

Here is a dim-light GW77 video:


108060p original, no post-processing.

Re: B-camera to accompany the NX70: the Sony HDR-GW77
 

Thanks for your reply Mark. Yes, I am aware that my two cams are dated, but I am familiar with them and how to get the best from them. The GW77 would be something I would use in situations where a tripod and my other cams would be impractable. I am planning on getting this GW77 soon, as soon as I round up a couple hundred more $s I can afford to use on something other than bills.
Love your video. I love Chicago, especially downtown, along the lakefront, and the western suburbs (where there are railroads present).

Mike (Railfan)

Re: B-camera to accompany the NX70: the Sony HDR-GW77
 

I'll see if I can get some railroad shots in my next travels.

Re: B-camera to accompany the NX70: the Sony HDR-GW77
 

COOL! Try for some daytime and nighttime. :)

Re: B-camera to accompany the NX70: the Sony HDR-GW77
 

As promised, a night-time train video:

Re: B-camera to accompany the NX70: the Sony HDR-GW77
 

Nice videos! As for keeping the focus on the moving model trains, how did you do that? How far were you from those trains when you were shooting them? Was everything on the GW77 on auto?

Thanks for those video shots. I enjoyed them.

Mike

Re: B-camera to accompany the NX70: the Sony HDR-GW77
 

For this video, exposure was manual, wb and focus were auto. I was right next to the model-train tracks.

Re: B-camera to accompany the NX70: the Sony HDR-GW77
 

Thanks Mark. I am encouraged by your videos. With my SR11, shooting those model trains and focusing on the train itself, would have made the rest of the foreground and back ground out of focus. Apparenty, the result of a shallow depth of field. Again, with my SR11, to keep the moving train in focus, I would have had to continually adjust the focus on the train by either manually adjusting the focal distance, or by continuously using the spot focus feature; not the smoothest methods let me tell you. So those things were what I was watching for the most, and it seemed that the examples in your videos showed that the GW77 could do a better job than my SR11.
As to the night scenes, they appeared better than what my SR11 could do also. Hard to tell how much do to not being able to do a direct comparison.

How accurate were the colors in your night scenes?...... Of both the real trains, and of the model trains.

Thanks again.
Mike

Re: B-camera to accompany the NX70: the Sony HDR-GW77
 

The color accuracy in low light is excellent. I carefully compare what I see on the lcd and what I see when I shoot (the lcd is very good) and I never have felt the need to use manual wb under these conditions (unlike for the Panasonic TM900).

Re: B-camera to accompany the NX70: the Sony HDR-GW77
 

Great. That is good to know. Hoping to get my GW77 for Christmas. Have lots of upcoming jobs for it, including a video of model trains.

Thanks.
Mike

Re: B-camera to accompany the NX70: the Sony HDR-GW77
 

With all the talk on this little cam, picked one up cheap secondhand... Pretty decent!

It's small, but bigger than I expected (RX100 spoiled me). Ergonomics of a "pistol grip" design are going to take some getting used to. Seems to handle low light quite unexpectedly well - mostly keeping up with a current "PJ" series cam. Not bad for a "small chipper".

Obviously there are limits to what a "pocket" camera can do, no audio I/O, no remote, and that awkward vertical shape... but for quick video aquisition you can take anywhere, looks pretty good, and as a B or C camera that is "weatherproof", could be a handy thing to have around! The customizable touchscreen buttons are a nice touch too - making up for the lack of any place to put real buttons!

Auto WB adjusts smooth and quickly to changing conditions from what I can see, and you can use the touch screen to choose what part of the frame to focus and expose for - again, check those customizable buttons once you get hands on - easy access to functionality otherwise "buried" in the menus!

Re: B-camera to accompany the NX70: the Sony HDR-GW77
 

Hope this thread is still alive, I have a couple questions concerning this GW77 -

1) Any way to mount it to a small shoulder rig for a bit more stabilization

2) I have noticed the model numbers have a V / L / B at the end is just just a color of the
actual camera thing or?

3) I want to use them as a B-Roll camera on a boat of people catching fish, with either a 30u or 70u
as main, how close is the footage?

Thanks in advance

Re: B-camera to accompany the NX70: the Sony HDR-GW77
 

Keep in mind it's a "pistol grip" format (and a rather awkward one at that, as it's basically a "vertical block"). It does have a tripod mount on the bottom, so you should be able to attach it to most "rigs", although it is very small and lightweight. I tried mounting a very basic "L" bracket (flash bracket), and that seemed to help a bit (think "two handed"/ micro FigRig type thing).

Just out of curiousity I popped it on a "homebrew" rig I cobbled up out of modded flash brackets, and it actually worked quite well, although it looks "odd"! My suggestion would be get the lightest "rigs" you can, perhaps just cobble up a couple from the plumbing section using plastic pipe and fittings (easy to build 'em if you ever played with Tinkertoys or blocks), someting with two handles and a shouder extension would do the trick, and you'd be out for under $20, unless you want to paint them and make them look less ghetto. MOST rigs are just too big, bulky and heavy for these tiny little cameras from what I've found, and there aren't any "micro" rigs, even thought these little cams probably benefit the most from a "3 point" or "4 point" support system. I am used to shooting "small and light", and want to keep the total rig that way to avoid any hand/wrist/back strain, most of the "big rigs" defeat that purpose!


The suffix on these is the color designation, although the "V" refers to GPS in all Sony camera nomenclature. I think you'll find the designation to be GW77V unless there are international models without GPS (which does happen), and I believe these come in Black (B?), White (W?), and Blue (L) outside color, guts being identical.


I haven't fiddled with putting mine next to a PJ710 yet (which will be the same image block as an NX30, with less features, and I believe the same sensor as the 70), it's on my "to do list" for integrating some different cameras into the mix, but offhand the video is of a solid enough quality, and has the typical "Sony look" so it shouldn't be too big a problem. I am a little nervous about not having an "AE shift" to pull the exposure back, as that's sort of a Sony shooter "secret", but there do seem to be "spot focus/exposure" features which can be mapped to an onscreen "button", and I have to fiddle with it a bit more. I suspect the video is a little less crisp than the 710, but again, I need to shoot some tests side by side, it's definitely "good" from the samples I've shot just dragging the thing along and shooting whatever is happening.

I got one cheap enough I couldn't pass it up, figuring it never hurts to have a "bad weather" camera, and I can't justify a 70. Somehow I don't see the retail price, but it does seem to be a good little camera if you need something that won't be bothered by water, dirt, an accidental drop and whatnot. I've also got a couple DSC-TX20's that serve a similar purpose... the GW77 definitely is a better video camera than those, and they actually will "do in a pinch"!

Hope these observaitions are of some use to you. Let me know if you've got any other questions and I'll see if I can offer any insight!

Re: B-camera to accompany the NX70: the Sony HDR-GW77
 

I went ahead and picked one up, I like it and pretty sure it will serve the use well. I purchased a opteka shoulder rig and together I think we have a winner. I did see a panny in my travels at a much better price, but I fear the footage will look too different.

I took it with me on a location scout at a carwash and am really happy with what it pulled for me there.

Really niche camera for my production, and exactly what we need on the boats for B-Roll ....

Re: B-camera to accompany the NX70: the Sony HDR-GW77
 

It has been awhile since the last post on this thread. Hope there is still some interest.

Mark, what is the latest with your GW77? Any new shots?

Well, I went and finally found a GW77 in my town at a small camera shop downtown. Did a bit of fiddling with it in the store and outside and then put it on lay-away. Am now paying on it weekly until I have it paid for.....will be awhile until I finally have it. Can't wait until I can bring it home to use it for real.

Handling it is definitely different from my SR11 and FX7. Will have to get used to that. It will also be interesting to compare the video it produces to what my other cams produce, and see how they match up on a project. Am sorry to see that this little cam is discontinued, but it will probably be replaced with something "more advanced".

Re: B-camera to accompany the NX70: the Sony HDR-GW77
 

Finally bought a GW77. By now, I know the cam is old news, but for me, it is new. Will be learning it over the next few weeks.

Re: B-camera to accompany the NX70: the Sony HDR-GW77
 

With Sony's latest earnings reports I suspect many "low volume" cameras will either disappear entirely or be combined with other models - the market for compact cameras and video cameras was off over 25% if I understood the numbers correctly (it was less when adjusted for currency fluctuations, but it was a pretty telling #). The cell phone has absolutely KILLED the compact cameras. I know Sony cut back their lines quite noticeably for 2013, and many camera "series" were consolidated/eliminated.

That said, the GW77 is an interesting little beast, very pocketable, and while it lacks a few features (exposure compensation is the one I miss), it's a pretty sweet "ruggedized" VIDEO camera if you need one (as opposed to a still camera that does video).