Re: FS100 and F3 workshop at NAB
 

I'm not sure one needs to be a "resolution-phile" to understand the advantage of a very wide bandwidth signal. There are many reasons why one does not want to shoot and record at the same resolution as one is exporting.

Likewise, there are many reasons why one wants to record compressed RAW or Log-S.

If you want to see why Sony has built the F65 fort filmmaking -- watch this video.

fxguide | vfx, mograph, and production news

It's about the RED Epic, but when it talks about IMAGE QUALITY it says everything Sony would say about why you really want an F65. Except, of course, that the F65 does it better!

It seems the F3 may hit a sweet spot the FS100 does not, for me.

Re: FS100 and F3 workshop at NAB
 

From the presentations on the Sony's 2K/4K sensor developments

http://pro.sony.com/bbsc/video/chann...rder_training/

PS I watched/listened twice, but couldn't figure out where the current S35 (as per the F3 and FS100) stands in this...

Re: FS100 and F3 workshop at NAB
 

OK Steve - your doubts are well founded (especially in the light of BBC's Alan Roberts' report). I am an engineer, but have nothing to do with optics/electronics - so please forgive the naivety of this question:

- why "skipped/discarded"? Why not "accumulated"?

If you accumulate many tiny "photosites" into a single "pixel", you'll get the high S/N and sensitivity Sony claims...

Just a thought,

Piotr

Re: FS100 and F3 workshop at NAB
 

Hey Doug,
Could you confirm the HDMI out specs for us. I saw the interview with you on Vimeo where you stated and they later confirmed that it's 4.4.4 but looking at the Sony website it says 4.2.2. Either way I think this will be the camera to beat this year especially when you combine it with an external recorder.

Re: FS100 and F3 workshop at NAB
 

Hi Steve,

The HDMI output of the FS100 can either be 4:4:4 8-bit or 4:2:2 8-bit.
The external recorder and the camera will shake hands and determine automatically what is the highest possible setting they can share. No need to change any menus.

Also, the HDMI output has embedded timecode. Not sure how exactly that will be used right now in the real world. FYI, I could not get the TC to trigger recording on my NanoFlash the way it does with SDI. In the future I'm sure it will.

Doug

Re: FS100 and F3 workshop at NAB
 

OK, so from the same source you can now watch a presentation on the FS100 by Juan Martinez himself:

Sony VideON | NEXFS100U Camcorder - Sony Pre-NAB 2011 Training | Most Recent

Basically what he is saying is that:

- there is no line skipping on the S35 sensor
- the S35 sensor's pixel is 4-times larger that that on a DSLR sensor

This should answer a lot of doubts presented by Steve, and those created in our minds by the review of BBC's Alan Roberts.

Re: FS100 and F3 workshop at NAB
 

Outstanding, thank you Doug!

Re: FS100 and F3 workshop at NAB
 

I find it strange the choice 444 hdmi as there are no recorder for that and none that I have heard planning for it. For the little gain for 99% of shooting of 444 vs 422, a 10 bit output should have been much better and made a whole lot of differences.

Re: FS100 and F3 workshop at NAB
 

(posted on wrong thread)

Re: FS100 and F3 workshop at NAB
 

Hi Doug,

Does this mean the F3's HDMI can be 444 as well?

Man, Sony is really confusing. Why provide 444 in HDMI when there isn't any hardware that can take advantage of it? I just checked BlackMagic and Aja and everything is 422 YUV over HDMI except a BM Mini Converter which is an HDMI to SDI converter. HOWEVER, even though it can accept 444 RGB over HDMI, it can only output 422 YUV via SDI.

Re: FS100 and F3 workshop at NAB
 

Somehow nobody care to comment on this, but nevertheless here you can find a nice summary of the FS100 presentation by Mr. Martinez:

Notes On Video: Sony NEX-FS100 Presentation - Juan Matrinez

"We're grossly oversampling for HD, and we're not allowed to say the specification of the sensor, but I can say that we are grossly over-sampling high definition"

Hmm....

Re: FS100 and F3 workshop at NAB
 

- there is no line skipping on the S35 sensor
- the S35 sensor's pixel is 4-times larger that that on a DSLR sensor

I'm sure everyone wishes that cleared everything up. But, alas it doesn't.

Pretend you are an intern at Sony and told IF you can do the following, you get a job.

1) You can't use the 14MP sensor used in current NEX cameras and camcorders. (This let's us claim the FS100 doesn't use the same chip as the VG10.) You must use the Sony CMOS sensor used in the A55. It is a 16MP chip. It will be used in 2011 NEX cameras. When shooting a 16:9 image, the chip uses 4912 by 2760 pixels -- a total of 13.56MP.

2) You may use the current Bayer filter or you may use a different one.

3) The chip must output a pixel that is "effectively" 4X larger in order to increase performance.

3a) Sensitivity must be increased by 12dB to 18dB. We want an 800ASA sensitivity in the F3. (The VG10 has about a 150ASA to 200ASA sensitivity.)

3b) Noise must be lowered by 6dB to 9dB.

4) In order to run the chip at 60Hz rather than 30Hz, data coming from the chip must be reduced by half. This must be done without skipping or discarding.

5) You must obtain a 3.36MP before debayering. That means 4912 columns must become 2456 -- actually 2444 pixels per line. And, 2760 rows must be reduced to 1380 lines -- actually 1374 lines.

6) You must explain what that pesky BBC guy will find when he tests the F3 or FS100 for aliasing.

Before I post how I think this can be done, let's see if others can design the F3/FS100 chip.

PS: Bonus points if you can show the chip could be used for a 4K2K VG20.

Contest closes on Saturday night.

Re: FS100 and F3 workshop at NAB
 

Hmm, is right!

Sorry we can't tell you the chip spec. -- like why? -- but we will tell you we record 2MP and the pre-debayering image is 3.36MP.

First, most single chip cameras need about 3.3MP so that after debayering one has 2MP. I've never seen these necessary pixels called "oversampling."

Second, I don't know what Juan calls "gross" but I sure don't call 68% (1.68X) gross. Now were a chip to have 6.78X more photosites -- yes, that would be gross. But, depending on how the "reduction" is made, I'm not sure I would call it over-sampling.

Re: FS100 and F3 workshop at NAB
 

Amazing video, thanks for that. Makes me really want an F3 :)