DV Info Net

DV Info Net (https://www.dvinfo.net/forum/)
-   Sony VX2100 / PD170 / PDX10 Companion (https://www.dvinfo.net/forum/sony-vx2100-pd170-pdx10-companion/)
-   -   Match the supplies to the equipment (https://www.dvinfo.net/forum/sony-vx2100-pd170-pdx10-companion/13527-match-supplies-equipment.html)

Mike Rehmus August 20th, 2003 11:19 AM

Match the supplies to the equipment
Let me get up on my pulpit here.

We buy expensive and fragile electro-mechanical equipment that costs thousands of dollars. We then place ourselves and the equipment in situations where failure means a loss of revenue and reputation.

We spend resources like water to get ourselves ready to play the videographer game and then we try to save a buck or two on tape.

Why, I ask?

Why would anyone not use Sony tapes in a Sony tape recorder? Sony knows best how to make tapes for their own hardware. They designed the camcorder and know what it requires for maximum reliability and life.

The price of their tapes in even minimum volume is low enough to not matter in the long run.

We pay a great deal for access to Sony's professional assistance program but the use of non-Sony tapes, while it cannot strike us off their list, gives them a place to point their corporate finger. Something they cannot do with an all-Sony operation.

I strongly recommend using the brand of tape that is offered by the manufacturer of the camcorder/deck. If you have a mixed bag of camcorders and tape decks, then I'd say stick with one brand according to the camcorder (your origination source) since you cannot recover from lost footage.

Off the pulpit and thank you for your time.

Bryan Beasleigh August 26th, 2003 02:46 PM

But what if i use the cheapest tape that Wally world or Cost-to-much has to offer........................... and i mix cheapo brands as well?

Let me see. if'n I saved a buck a tape , after about 75 tapes I could afford to get the gunk professionally removed from my heads. That is if they lasted that long.

Mike, your soapbox is just fine with me, you're preaching to the choir.

Neil McLean September 28th, 2003 06:59 AM

Whilst I agree with the comments above, I recently shot a wedding reception that lasted more than one hour. As a result, I had to change tapes, resulting in camera downtime, i.e. loss of audio and video.

To this end, I'm tempted to buy the Panasonic 83 minute tapes and use these AFTER cleaning the tape heads on my PD150 and DSR-11.

Penny for your thoughts...


Barry Green September 28th, 2003 10:10 AM

For longer-than-an-hour situations, the 83's aren't necessarily the best solution. They're thinner, which may lead to crinkling or other problems. Even though Panasonic makes them, the DVX100 manual says that you shouldn't use them. (similar to how many audio cassette player manufacturers recommended you avoid the 120-minute audio tapes). So, if you decide to do this, proceed with caution.

The other not-recommended solution for longer-than-an-hour is to use LP mode, but that's fairly universally recommended against.

The ideal solution for longer-than-an-hour situations may be a belt-pack hard disk recorder, such as the CitiDisk DV or Laird CapDiv, which would give you about three hours of continuous recording, plus built-in redundancy -- you can record to the in-camera tape as well as the external hard disk. But that's about $600 - $1200. Or more.

Another way you could go is to get a cheap DV camera off ebay or something, and hook it up through firewire to your main camera, and then just before you change tapes, tell the cheap camera to start recording what it's seeing through the firewire from your main camera. That way you'd capture what was happening on it during the tape changeover, but the drawback is that you'd have to piece the show together in post, vs. the other solutions which provide the entire show in one continuous tape.

Don Bloom December 15th, 2003 04:34 PM

I've used PAnasonic PQ's both 63 and 83 for weddings and events in both of the 150's and the old VX1000 for well over 2 years (105 weddings and no way to count the other events) with no problems either in camera or post (loading up to editor) however I do understand and appreciate what Mike is saying about staying with one mfgr.

Patrick Bower December 20th, 2003 06:09 PM

You can capture the DVX100, while recording, via firewire to a laptop hard disk. So, depending on the size of your hard disk, battery or mains power etc., you could record for several hours. (Or you could record just the last 20 minutes or so, after the tape ran out)

Law Tyler December 20th, 2003 07:28 PM

Since we are talking about whose "longer", I recently discovered that you can set to miniDV SP mode while using the 3-hour DVCAM tape in my DSR-250. The result is close to 5 hours of straight recording, as soon as my BP-L60 battery arrive.

I thought that was cool.

Mike Rehmus December 20th, 2003 08:34 PM

Guys, you are getting way off the thread.

Shawn McGinnis December 20th, 2003 10:47 PM

New to the forum with one caveat - my VX2000 stops outputting audio over the firewire when a tape is ejected. I run it to a laptop (got a 4 hour laptop battery), but can't change the tape without 2 drops in audio (1 when tape is ejected and another when the next tape is put in). Just fyi on long recording.

I completely agree with the same tape brand thing. I was a victim to the early DV panasonic/sony tape gunk problem. I only use sony tapes with my VX (so at least i can blame Sony when there's a dropout).

Joe Gioielli January 22nd, 2004 01:39 PM

I agree with Mike, I use only Sony in my VX. However I did have a failure (new tape got all chewed up in the 1 month old VX on a tripod.) with a Sony tape in a Sony machine, so bear in mind that anything can happen.

Todd Moen February 25th, 2004 02:11 AM

Ok Mike,
I understand this has been talked about many times but, I've stuck to the Sony brand in my Pd150 but I don't use the DVCam tapes instead I use the cheaper Sony Mini DV tapes for recording in the DVCam Mode? Is this ridiculous? There's a big price difference here.

Mike Rehmus February 25th, 2004 10:44 AM

Not at all. I only use the DVCam tapes (the large ones) in my DSR-300 when I need the long run-time. I always use the cheapest Sony miniDV cassettes otherwise.

Mike Butler March 25th, 2004 06:04 PM

Must mention that there's a difference betwen buying tape cheap and buying cheap tape. Once you have settled on a favorite (Panny for my Canon in my case), definitely stick to it. Then shop aggressively for a good price. My solution is, now that I know what I like, I certainly don't want to run out of it and be forced to use mixed brands... so I buy a bunch of them (last load was 100 tapes) and now it's almost impossible to have a problem. Of course, when you buy in quantity the price gets better. That's how to buy tape cheap without buying cheap tape.

Matthew Pennings August 31st, 2006 02:17 PM

I agree with Mike Butler,

I purchased a box of 50 Maxell 63 minute MiniDVs (DV-M63PRO) for just under $200 CND and I couldn't be happier with them. I've filmed four weddings with the Maxells so far and it has been great. Plus, the extra few minutes of tape gives me a handy bit of breathing room when the wedding and/or speeches run close to an hour.

I think, in the end, people don't want to fork over $200 on tapes all at once because it seems like a lot - but bulk is a better price per tape. And like Mike said, once you've found something that has yet to let you down, stick with it.

James Connors September 12th, 2006 05:32 AM

Just to disagree on a point, Sony is split into so many (often warring!) departments its unreal. The people who are involved in the purchase of their standard "Premium" (think thats what they're called, the orangey packet ones) tapes from the manufacturers, who undoubtedly have zero connection with Sony, aren't the same people involved in the design and manufacture of their professional series cameras. Whilst I tend to try and stick with the same brand for the same reasons as others, I wouldn't pick Sony tapes over Panasonic just because they carry the Sony brand on them.. in this case its irrelevant.

Mike Rehmus September 12th, 2006 07:08 AM

Sorry, it is not irrelevant. It doesn't matter how many factions you think Sony may have, they still design their tapes to match the requirements of their camras and vice-versa. They, like every other company that make consumables for their hardware, look for every possible advantage they can during the design of their supplies. It's because the supplies business is so very profitable that they want and need to defend their supplies turf.

James Connors September 12th, 2006 07:42 AM

But my point is, Sony don't design the tapes in any shape or form. They buy them and repackage them... same with CDRs, VHS tapes etc... There is no doubt in my mind that there's anything about those tapes that has been geared towards being run thru the PDs heads at all. They've been tried and tested, sure, but thats to the extent of it. Everytime a manual says "We only recommend using {our} brand of consumables" it has nothing to do with compatability, and all to do with brand loyalty and profits.

Mike Rehmus September 12th, 2006 08:02 AM

Sorry but I continue to disagree. Having been involved in the supply business in the printer marketplace, I can tell you that we were very concerned about the specifications and quality of the supplies. We competed with other companies whos products were similar to ours. The major difference in the customer's eyes were first for performance and then for price.

In no case did the companies (Xerox, Qume, Versatec) own their supplies manufacturers. But we had specs they had to meet and we sampled every batch of paper, toner, ribbons, etc. Every supplier had to qualify their products to even get on the approved purchasing list.

Sony (and any other camera manufacturer) is very sensitive to the delivered image quality from their cameras. If tape specs meant nothing to them, then the issues of dry vs wet lubricant and their contribution to major camera service problems wouldn't have existed back in the dark ages of DV because there would have been only one tape specification (that would be the cheapest solution). Image quality, head life, warranty issues all drive the companies to have a good match between hardware and supplies.

Having dealt directly with upper management of several major Japanese companies, my experience (not directly with Sony) is that they leave nothing to chance. Nothing.

By US law, a manufacturer of a product that uses consumables may not tell their customers that only their supplies may be used to avoid problems with their warranty. All they can say is that they strongly recommend the use of their supplies for the best results. If you could look into the test data, you would know that the manufacturer's supplies almost always work better in their hardware than that from a 3rd party.

David Tindale April 26th, 2008 02:09 AM

Would just like to say that I bought my PD 170 a few years ago in Australia and in the booklet regarding warrenty Sony definitely states that if you do not use Sony tapes that your warranty is void. I personally don't have a problem with that, but I can see how other people might eg why should it matter what brand you use.

I work for a media company that uses Sony cameras but we use Panasonic tapes and only panasonic. BTW that policy was in place before I joined, we haven't had any problems and we buy in bulk.

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 11:28 AM.

DV Info Net -- Real Names, Real People, Real Info!
1998-2021 The Digital Video Information Network