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-   Sony VX2100 / PD170 / PDX10 Companion (https://www.dvinfo.net/forum/sony-vx2100-pd170-pdx10-companion/)
-   -   Sony Europe Announces PD170P (https://www.dvinfo.net/forum/sony-vx2100-pd170-pdx10-companion/14522-sony-europe-announces-pd170p.html)

Boyd Ostroff September 11th, 2003 11:33 AM

PD-170 rumors persist
 
Somebody e-mailed me a link to the latest PD-170 "specifications". Who knows, it's possible? This info is a little less outrageous, but I'd sure believe that Sony would announce this before it appeared on some other website.

If this is true then Sony is certainly coming up with a rather boring upgrade to the PD-150 after all this time. Oh boy.... new body color and a new lens hood! <yawn>... IMHO, this is a hoax. But if it isn't, well then I'm glad I got a PDX-10. ;-)

http://www.biz-max.net/bizmax/dsr-pd170.htm

Frank Granovski September 11th, 2003 12:58 PM

All the person would have to do is read through the description and specifications, and open their eyes to look at the crummy pictures. But as you know, many people cannot read and cannot see. :)

Barry Green September 11th, 2003 10:37 PM

Re: PD-170 rumors persist
 
<<<-- Originally posted by Boyd Ostroff : Somebody e-mailed me a link to the latest PD-170 "specifications". Who knows, it's possible? This info is a little less outrageous, but I'd sure believe that Sony would announce this before it appeared on some other website.

If this is true then Sony is certainly coming up with a rather boring upgrade to the PD-150 after all this time. Oh boy.... new body color and a new lens hood! <yawn>... IMHO, this is a hoax. But if it isn't, well then I'm glad I got a PDX-10. ;-)

http://www.biz-max.net/bizmax/dsr-pd170.htm -->>>

Winston's a reliable seller, it would be quite odd for him to have been hoaxed, and I do not believe he would participate in perpetrating a hoax. And it's worth noting that Expandore is also announcing and offering this PD170
http://www.expandore.com/product/Son.../DSRPD170P.htm

Neither of these pages makes the wacky claims that the hoax brochure did, such as "17P."

IF this is accurate, it's quite reminiscent of the XL1-to-XL1s upgrade... people clamored for the XL2, but they got the XL1s. Here people want some major 16:9 / 24P version of the PD150, but what they may get is this PD170 (and the name does seem consistent, since there's a DSR-370 and a DSR-570, why not a PD-170?)

Sony also has a history of releasing minor upgrades (the DSR200 spawned the DSR200A, the PD100 bequeathed a PD100A) so maybe there's validity to this after all?

If this is a hoax, it's much more believable this time. Might be a little easier to believe if it'd been accompanied by a Sony press release, though.

Frank Granovski September 12th, 2003 12:00 AM

A few days ago on that biz-max.net site, the old joke post was still up along with strange PD170 specs. Today I went there and noticed that everything has changed, including the poorly scanned PD150 pics and questionable specs. I also checked supervideo and Vincent's site. Nothing! about a PD170.

Robbie Smolinsky September 12th, 2003 05:58 AM

Hi all, I don't know if anyone saw it but in that old biz-max hoax post (titled "sony pd170 coming shortly -- not") , I emailed them directly about it. They actually emailed me yesterday saying that they had the new updated specs on the page. But honestly, nothing against biz-max as a seller (I have never dealt with them), but I wouldn't trust a darn thing I see on their page since they were telling me the whole 17P hoax came to them directly from Sony HQ. Either they knew well that it didn't and they were covering their rears, or they don't check their sources well at all.

Not to make any accusations here but both these sites have something to gain by posting info, whether its a hoax or not: traffic. I have not heard or delt with either of these sites, and I'm sure some others haven't either, and suddenly people like me are showing up just to check out this listing, and that turns into a whole "while I'm here I'll check out the other prices" deal.

You can see a copy of the emails that were sent to me in that other thread. Again, I don't mean to talk badly about them as a business. But I was told that they were waiting for Sony's OK to post the "real" info, explain this: how likely is it that a huge corporation like is going to kick off their advertising campaign by releasing info to a small website and saying nothing themselves. Picture it- Sony execs around table: "What do you want to do about that PD170 release" "Oh! I know! lets call biz-max and have them release that info on their page! But we won't actually do anything ourselves, that way its cheaper for us".

Now really, I'm just kidding around here. I don't mean to start a huge argument, but while speculation is always fun, lets not take any of it too seriously. Is there a PD170 coming soon? The reality is no one can be sure. Are the specs on the biz-max page correct? Again, they very well could be, but I certainly hope thats not all there is to it. But who knows...I'll believe it when I see it on the Sony website.

Chris Hurd September 12th, 2003 07:31 AM

It's now on Jan van der Meer's Global DVC site: http://www.global-dvc.org/html/PD170.asp.

Sony is showing the PD170 at IBC, which is going on right now.

Robbie Smolinsky September 12th, 2003 10:24 AM

Well there it is I guess. *As I tuck my tail between my legs* But at least the speculation has been resloved, to some degree.

It says that this is a prototype, so is that why Sony hasn't made an official announcement yet? And what does that mean exactly, is it likely that they may change some things before the release, or is this just what you'll get period?

I'd like to hear some reactions just to see what other people think of it. Looks like Barry hit the mark when he said it could be like the XL1 to XL1s upgrade. But actually it seems like there were more improvments in that upgrade than this new PD170 (well this is opinion, I could find more upgrades in the XL1s that I would find most useful, while these PD170 upgrades don't really make me want to run out and buy one).

I'd like to hear what people think of it. persoanlly I think it looks sort of ugly, I always prefered the dark grey body of the PD150, and this looks like a mix of that with lighter grey and that big black viewfinder. The upgrades listed there don't seem particularly useful for my needs either, but maybe thats not the full list yet.

I'm curious as to what it is going to cost......that shold be interesting. And does anyone think there would be a really significant price drop in the PD150 as a result?

Boyd Ostroff September 12th, 2003 11:01 AM

Well like I said before, I'm glad I got the PDX-10, and the PD-170 doesn't make me want to trade in my VX-2000. It sounded as though the viewfinder LCD was actually the same but they just put a bigger magnifier on it. The controls on the handle don't sound too earth shaking. Having better low light performance is always good, but I find that curious. People already acknowledge the VX-2000/PD-150 as the low light leaders, so this shouldn't really open up any new markets for Sony.

I guess it's nice to bundle in a WA lens (depending on the price), but that's a little strange since anyone who is upgrading would probably already have their own. All in all these seem like improvements geared towards ENG, there's certainly nothing here for DV movie makers.

Let's see what else was there.... an iLink strap! Oh boy, I had *really* been hoping for one of those! ;-)

IMO it's a big disappointment. Maybe they will introduce something completely new before NAB next year? But perhaps their market research indicates there aren't enough budding film makers out there to justify catering to them? For those who were eagerly hoping for real 16:9, cine gamma, 24p, etc, well I think Sony has lost them (at least for now). I suspect those people will go with Panasonic, or maybe the PDX-10 depending on their needs.

Frank Granovski September 12th, 2003 11:27 AM

But why was it posted that this new PD170 has 17P? That's really strange.

Patrick Bower September 12th, 2003 11:40 AM

Information on this sony site:

http://www.sonybiz.net/dvcam

Patrick

Mike Rehmus September 12th, 2003 11:54 AM

Interesting if true.

I went back to the home page and typed in the model number and was referred to the PD150P page.

It is not mentioned in the IBC hype pages and one would think that it would be.

I'm still not certain it is not a hoax. Were I to bet, I'd still say it is a hoax.

Patrick Bower September 12th, 2003 12:39 PM

Go to

http://www.sonybiz.net/dvcam

Look down the page to

Previews & Features

DSR-PD170P replaces bestselling DSR-PD150P [NEW!]

Alternatively, think this may be the complete url

http://www.sonybiz.net/cgi-bin/bvisa...ssw-iibcpd170E

Patrick

Barry Green September 12th, 2003 12:48 PM

It's no hoax, it's on Sony's web site.

http://www.sonybiz.net/cgi-bin/bvisa...ssw-iibcpd170E

* SonyBiz.net is Sony's European business division.

(whoa, looks like I was too slow, you beat me to it!)

Michael Struthers September 12th, 2003 02:26 PM

Hey I was just trying to tell you what's up...

Sean R Allen September 12th, 2003 03:00 PM

The DCR-VX2100 was also supposedly announced today although I can't find the link, someone posted the text of the announcement. Seems it'll have the same enhancements noted in the PD170 announcement, in addition they restyled it "in dark grey instead of the current silver for a higher quality feel". Guess they took note of a lot of the complaints about it's silver color. It's supposed to be out in December.

Mike Rehmus September 12th, 2003 04:20 PM

Please keep comments out of the personal zone.

Boyd Ostroff September 12th, 2003 05:22 PM

<<<-- Originally posted by Michael Struthers : bet you guys feel like morons now. -->>>

Not really, just disappointed that Sony came up with such a lackluster "upgrade" to the PD-150 after all this time. I wanted it to be a hoax....

And then there was the part about "17p" and "weirdest looking images you can imagine".... Actually I was pretty excited about all that, cause I can imagine some pretty WEIRD images! ;-)

Hey, I'm sure these new features will enhance the PD-150, and were probably developed in response to user feedback. But there certainly isn't anything there to make me trade in my VX-2000 or PDX-10. But if it had real 16:9 then I might have actually considered it. But maybe Sony is worried about cannibalizing their higher end gear by making the PD line too good.

Just curious, is there anyone out there who finds these new features exciting enough to get rid of their PD-150 and buy a PD-170?

Mike Rehmus September 12th, 2003 05:47 PM

Well, if they took out half the candles at the reception, maybe.

Otherwise, this looks like a marketing-driven product upgrade to face the Panasonics. I'm surprised that Sony felt the impact. But the DVX-100 apparently has the low light performance of the 150 and a wider lens.

This will allow the 150/2100 to match the DSR-390 in low light situations. Maybe that's it?

Maybe this is what they mean by the statement, 'seamless upgrade?'

Michael Struthers September 12th, 2003 07:48 PM

No 16x9 is disappointing. but sony has another cannon in the pipeline...

Of course, it's probably a hoax too.

Only the pdx10 and the panny gs100 currently with 16x9, and I'd take the panny on cost. pdx looks better though.

Gareth Mattison September 12th, 2003 09:10 PM

I'm not impressed by the overhaul of the PD150 but, I guess, if it ain't broke don't fix it (just tart it up a little...). I hoped it would have a wider angle lens built in, true 16:9, a better quality mic and state of the art film-look capability. However, I love my PD150 (not in the biblical sense I may add) and would have felt obliged, in a geekish way, to upgrade if they'd come up with something truly new and exciting. My day job is in marketing and I'm at a loss to explain the way Sony have launched this cam - presuming they were the source of the 17p/low grade/weird nonsense that's been floating around. Who, apart from enthusiasts, would take notice of that? In the PD150 Sony have a fantastic product and I'm sure the subtle changes they've made improve it. But I feel no need to race out and exchange my PD150for a PD170, and that is surely a missed opportunity on their behalf. All I can think is that maybe this is the equivalent of car manufacturers releasing a "special edition" - metallic paint, alloy wheels and cd player as standard - of a model about to be replaced in 6 months. I do fancy getting hold of that new lens hood for my WA though...

Bryan Beasleigh September 12th, 2003 09:49 PM

If the PD150/VX2k is so inferior why didn't we all sell our gear and buy a panny. The answer is of course, that they're still good cameras. The old and the new incarnations are still a rock solid workhorse. If I was buying new, I think i'd stay with sony. I just don't need what the panny has to offer.

Some people are in love with specs and perceived superiority. Some , never actually do anything with their camera, except measure against what someone else has or says.

Boyd Ostroff September 12th, 2003 10:47 PM

Sure Bryan, we all know how good Sony products are. And I understand that they will only build stuff that they can sell at a profit; Sony isn't my mommy, it's just a company. We owners of the current models should actually be very happy that the resale value on our equipment will remain high since the new models have changed so little.

But I don't see why you fail to understand why people are disappointed with this minor upgrade. The PD-150's successor has been eagerly anticipated for quite some time. True, many people had ridiculous expectations, but the PD-170 really doesn't break any new ground. And the marketing is pretty amusing when they list "advantages" like a new color scheme, different lens hood and an i.Link strap.

It is still a solid camera I'm sure, but it has to be evaluated in comparison to the rest of the field in 2003 now. It's starting to look a little dated IMO. I have a whole house full of Sony products, 2 TV's, a 16:9 LCD, two camcorders, a CD player, cassette deck, tuner, speakers, etc. But if I was buying a new camcorder TODAY, yes I would at least consider the panny.

In the meantime, I certainly wouldn't consider replacing my VX-2000 with a PD-170 or VX-2100, there just aren't enough new features for that to make sense. But if they had included even a few of the hoped-for features then I just might have considered an upgrade.

It isn't the end of the world, just a let down. And since they aren't even going to be available until December that would imply we shouldn't expect further upgrades anytime soon. But it probably shouldn't surprise us that Sony is being conservative, especially when you look at their stock which has fallen around 20% since September 2002...

Bryan Beasleigh September 13th, 2003 12:32 AM

"But I don't see why you fail to understand why people are disappointed with this minor upgrade. "

I don't fail to see anything. I can see where some may be let down. The fact is, that i'm not let down, so that's all I care about.

A lot of the lip service is from non sony owners or from people that would never use the features they crave. I'm still trying to get the most out of my VX2K.

Many of the people are waiting for a camera that will give the film look without any skill requirement. they want a camera that will give a perfect picture and sound without having to build a lighting or audio kit. Or so it would seem.

I've spent a fair chunk of change lately but not on a camera. I've added to my lighting kit and bought a few camera and equipment supports,even some reflectors. I've also gone absolutely, stark raving banana crackers on audio gear. I've bought the very best that I can afford so that I may enjoy using it with many cameras to come. Excellant audio, is part of the equation.

I've even built a new puter and bought vegas4 with the DVD authoring.

My reasoning is that what I want to do and the level that I aspire to requires a fully rounded kit, not just the lastest camera.

I've looked at the DVX100 and while it's nice, I'm happy with what i have and I still haven't used the VX2K to it's full potential.

Boyd Ostroff September 13th, 2003 08:34 AM

Your points about audio and lighting are well taken. And I agree the VX-2000 was, is, and shall remain a good camera. And indeed there are those people who just constantly chase the next big thing without ever mastering the basics. I've also been investing in other equipment like tripods, lenses, computers, hard drives and software.

However there are people who actually need and use some of the new features. I need good 16:9 for the best image on a big screen with digital projection. Progressive is also desirable for what I'm doing, but this can be done in post up to a point. So I'm using a PDX-10 for all this, but when I got it I really would have preferred something more like a PD-150 with a larger form factor, bigger CCD's and better low light capabilities. But since I already have the VX-2000 and PDX-10, I'm not going to rush out and buy a new camera either.

So, like you, I'm not personally "let down", but unlike you I do care about what defines the current state of the art in prosumer cameras. And IMO Sony just fell behind in this horse race. And there's still a huge hole in their product line when it comes to 16:9 capability between the $2,000 PDX-10 and the $18,000 DSR-570.

Bryan Beasleigh September 13th, 2003 11:11 AM

Boyd
I respect your position on ths issue and also your excellent judgement.

I agree that it would be nice to have more of a choice and I think we will, given some time.

Mark Goodsell September 14th, 2003 09:04 AM

Boyd,

This whole Sony "new cam idea", to me was a myth created on these boards by people anticipating Sony's next move to top Panasonic. Also, I think this is one of those rare times when a new technology DVDs and widescreen (16:9)are ahead of other segments of the industry. People are disappointed on this release thinking Sony didn't come out with any major updgades. Well, this is not a new cam, only a modification to an existing cam. I'm sure when the new model does come out, we'll see 16:9 and some of the other upgrades we're looking for.

Gene Fong September 14th, 2003 01:39 PM

Sony Europe Announces PD170P
 
Here's the link:

http://www.sonybiz.net/^/templates/s...jsp&OID=118052

Gene

Mike Rehmus September 15th, 2003 01:30 AM

I'm merging this with an existing thread. We don't need many copies about the same item.

Mike Rehmus September 15th, 2003 01:33 AM

Boyd, I just found out how merging threads work. I should have reversed the action to keep your original title.

Sorry.

Shawn Mielke September 15th, 2003 02:19 PM

To be sold at the pd150 price....Is significant, no?

Drew Long September 15th, 2003 07:58 PM

New VX2100/PD170P is an improvement+
 
I'm going to buy it when it comes out. I use the cameras for u/w use and the lower light ability is nothing but good news for me. Also the 24 step aperture control is good news. I just hope street prices meet the old prices too... but that's really asking for too much.

Boyd Ostroff September 15th, 2003 08:54 PM

On another site somebody from the UK said their dealer told them Sony would be raising prices by 15% soon, FWIW. It's also interesting to note that the only announcements have been for the PD-170p in Europe. Sony's US website still makes no mention of it whatsoever. Very strange....


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