PD170 vs VX2100 questions
 

These are interesting comments. I have had a vx1000, and a vx2000. I am torn if I want a vx2100 or a PD170. This new sound problem clearly makes me wait until they have shipped for a while.

But, this repair cost is another interesting data point.
I had read the prosumer stuff was more expensive that then consumer stuff.


So, if the PD170 would be a flat fee of $550, what is the flat fee for repair on a vx2100?

Am still having a tough time deciding which way I want to go. I know the video quality between the two cameras is the same. So, I am left with audio and form factor. I have carried the vx1000/2000 around and though large, its not been
an issue. My concern is if I were to get the PD170, with all the extra audio hanging off of it, it may become a pain carrying it around.

Any thoughts?

I really haven’t had audio issues with my vx2000 series stuff. I have the adapters and pieces I have used. I can see the xlr has some pluses, but I struggle against all the possible cons.

Thanks for any thoughts.

Dave

Between the operational differences for the two cameras and the difference in support, I'll always purchase the 150/170 version of the products.

I've put up with a VX-1000 and an XLR adapter. Not, in my opinion, the way to go just from the audio viewpoint.

Search for a list of differences that have been published before on this forum. They are significant if you are trying to earn $ with your camera.

Just my opinion.

What's the difference in support?

Hi,

I am a products speciallist in an IT firm. I am thinking to make some extra money out of my weekend. I would like to buy a camera and get business started as a part time cameraman. I do not have target customer but plan to take up wedding and event shooting.

I am consider this few models...

Sony DSR-PD170
Sony DCR-VX2100
Panasonic AG-DVX100

which is the correct choice?

Can you guys help me to make up my mind...?

Thanks a lot.

800 number support, discusions with the Support folks can extend to including a Sony engineer. The Support person will research questions, become your advocate with the repair center if necessary and adjudicate problems. It helps a lot.

Repairs normally happen within a week instead of 6 weeks which reportedly is the turn-around time for the consumer products.

I'm not certain what Cons you are talking about vis-a-vis XLR, Dave C. The other way, with 1/8" unbalanced inputs is less capable and you end up with more gear hanging off the equipment whenever you try to get good sound. There is no extra gear hanging off a 170 or 150 unless you chose to hang it there.

I believe that for weddings, the 170 is the correct choice (understand that that is my opinion). You just about must use XLR sound gear in weddings which tosses out the 2100 if only because of the the extra gear you have to put up with. The Panny has been said to not be as good as the 150 in low light (I've not shot with one) and therefore would certainly not be as capable as the 170. Low light is almost always an issue with a wedding and reception combo.

Does the PD have a miniplug-in, or just XLRs?

Dear Mike,

Thanks for your precious opinion. I will fight my way out for 170.

So, if the flat fee for the PD series is 550, is there a flat
fee for the vx series also? If so, how much?

My only comment no the XLR stuff on the PD series is its just more stuff to carry. Meaning, my main use is carrying it on family vacations like to Disneyland. If I only used on a tripod, I would see as no big deal. So, does anyone carry their PD around compared to an VX and had any issues with the mic, etc as an example?

Thanks

Dave

I don't carry my 150 on vacation. It would seem too much like work. I have a pocket-sized PC110 that I use since it also can snap reasonable stills.

Other than a longer microphone, there isn't anything to bad about carrying a 150 or 170 around. I have changed the microphone mount to a CAC-12 which has a ball-joint so I can flip the microphone around and lower it to the camera body when I put it in the case.

Another advantage of the 150 microphone is you can put a wind sock over it and kill the wind noise. You could probably do that to the 2000 with a foam cover from something like a Shure SM58 and then put the fuzzy cover over that. Both are sold by B&H just to mention a source.

The flat fee is similar IIRC.

To Dave Largent
the pd does have a mini plug for external mic and on page 252 of the owners manual the comments include the following albeit confusing info

connect an external microphone (optional). This jack also accepts a "plug-in-power" microphone. Be sure to use the ECM-S80 for the external microphone.

im guessing the mic mentioned above is some kind of proprietary mic manufactured by Sony

not sure if this helps dave...but its what i see here

So, just wondering about the pd170 audio. So, from what I have read, it records mono on one track. So, what do folks do in post to be able to have a "stereo" effort with using both tracks?

dave

You can direct the audio to both tracks with independent levels if you wish on the 150/170. Many of us do that to prevent a suddenly loud sound event from overdriving both channels.

In Post, one just Pans the sound to the tracks that are desired and away you go.

From what I've heard and observed, most video and movie dialog is mono.

True stereo is only used (along with 5.1, 6.1, 7.1) to locate the source in the sound field when it is clearly not near the center AFAIK. Otherwise it would be distracting. I'm certain that productions that can afford superior sound work do move the audio around in the sound field. Why not? Perhaps Douglas or some other experienced sound producer can talk to that point.

That does not mean that the sound won't be found on both stereo channels or that stereo is not broadcast. Just that the audio is pretty much identical on both channels.

I often record music events using my own Mics and a sub mixer (often using more than 4 mics)

If I dont want to record to a separate source (e.g. mini-disk) I will often pan different sources to the 2 ausdio tracks on my PDX10 (same audio as PD150/170) e.g. string section of an orchestra on one and wind/percussion on the other.

It helps to have this separation in post in case some rebalancing needs to be done.

Alternatively, I may decied to record a stereo mix straight to the camera using the 2 inputs.

The point is that having 2 tracks and 2 inputs can give you some more choices. (If 4 were available, I for one would use them!)

Regards P

so it is only audio difference ?

Get the PD-170.

I just now tried to split the VX2100 audio, so that one channel comes from one receiver, the other channel a different receiver. DOES NOT WORK. Don't know why. I guess you have to get a DXA-8 to make it work that way.

One receiver going to both channel, that works fine.

So, spend the extra few hundred and get the PD-170.

My VX2100 is now relagate to #2 cam forever.

I'm not clear what the problem is with your VX-2100. You can record two separate audio sources with the VX-2000 or 2100. The issue is that you only have one manual audio level setting, so the one setting has to work for both sources. One way to get around this drawback is to use a Beachtek or other such device to attenuate one of the sources so that its maximum is in the same ballpark as the other source. Of course by the time you buy a Beachtek, you are getting closer to the price of a PD-170.

Alan, thanks.

But I tried two different splitters, which had worked on other cameras, and the end result is that it either retain using the on-cam mic, or just static.

Any way, adding the DXA-8 would get close to PD-170, which has other stuff like on-screen timestamp, usable on-cam mic, etc, better off just getting it.

I just tried using a splitter, too, with the VX2000.
I wanted to send a shotgun to one channel
and a wireless to the other.
I plugged in a 1/8" stereo to two 1/8" mono adapter
that I got from Radio Shack (~$5). I went to test the
setup for channel crosstalk by plugging in the
shotgun. I did get channel seperation, but I never
actually got as far as the crosstalk test because I
was getting a lot of crackling on the channel with the
shotgun.
Actually, I don't understand why this setup has this
problem. Perhaps a cheap RS splitter?
Anyways, I've been trying in vain to locate a Y-splitter cable (1 male miniplug stereo to 2 female miniplug mono).
I saw one one time on the net but can't find one
now. It was about a foot in length, or less.
Anyone know where I could get this item?

As I said, the two difference splitters worked on a even cheaper DV cam with stereo mini input, so I don't understand why this will not work. Any way, I give up. This will be a secondary cam.

I will get PDX-10 if not for the 7LUX.

yeah the only reason im leaning towards sony is because of the 1lux...I still might just save up and go panny however...

I'm waiting for my new PD-170 to arrive in the mail.
Two reasons I didn't go with the 2100:
Low light...I do alot of deep water footage
XLR jacks...documentary interviews etc...
Best of luck!

Don't mean to nippick, but that is only one reason -- the 2100 has the same CCD as PD-170, right?

I like the PD-170 because of the shotgun mic already there, of course if I need better quality, I can erect a stand with a separate mic.

Also the on-screen timestamp, don't get routed to "consumer" dept when you call Sony... just kidding.

The best thing about the PD over the VX ....
 

This is not mentioned, but as an owner of both
a VX and a PD, a really nice thing about the PD
versus the VX is that the PD doesn't turn off
every few minutes. For those of you trying
to decide between these two cams, do not
underestimate how annoying this constant
powering down can be when you are
using the cam professionally (i.e. to make
money).
One let down I've had with the cam -- aside
from the fact that my NTSC PD has the "170 audio
buzzing problem" -- is that the B&W viewfinder
doesn't help with focusing as much as I
expected. I've never looked into a 150
viewfinder, but I think that Sony may
have made focusing more difficult by
magnifying the viewfinder on the 170.
There seems to be alot of light bouncing
around inside the 170 viewfinder, which
seems to cut down on contrast. Anyone here
actually used both viewfinders?

Yes...same CCD's...my brain lapse...must have been thinking of the JVC HD
CS

For those of you familiar with the 150/170, I'm curious about the audio level controls. I have a GL2 and I've become very use to adjusting either channel with manual left and right dials. Does the PD170 work that way or do you have to go into the menu system? I'm strongly considering the 170 after the initial bugs go away.

Just read the PD150 workbook about audio levels and it says "You can adjust the incoming sound levels using the SEL/PUSH EXEC dial." Does that mean the dial controls both channels simultaneously?

Can be controlled individually, using a menu. No seperate hand-controlled rotary dials.

You get a choice to split the channels between auto and manual and another choice if you select both to be manual to have both levels controlled simultaneously by the single rotary control. Or you can split their control in which case, each push IN of the control switches the control between channels. Works quite nicely.

Bob : why do you want to make the change over from the GL2 and to the PD170??????

Hans,
I'm not 100% sure I want to switch. Quite frankly, I'm very happy with both of our GL2s but since we use them for weddings, I have to consider the 1 lux rating of the 170.

Just recently got to hold a colleague's GL2. Man, I
wish my cams were that lite in weight. The VX/PD
is like a brick in comparison. Big weight difference.