PD150/170 users: when are you moving to HD?

James Connors · September 10th, 2006, 04:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Leslie Wand

until i see hd tv's in ordinary peoples houses (incl friends in the business), i don't think it's worth the investment, even for the great pics they produce in sd. heck, i hardly know anyone who's actually bought a 16:9 display for home.

Over in the UK (and Europe I imagine) 16x9 is now really popular. i think the majority of people purchasing a new TV of more than 21" now would go for a 16x9 model, and a large proportion of those seem to be budget LCD (imo - yeuch, but hey!). I think the amount of anamorphic programming over the last 7 or so years has been a really good boost, plus DVD of course. I'm really surprised that widescreen DVDs have taken off so well in the states given the complete lack of 16x9 SD tv sets, and the obvious "i'm losing picture with those ugly black bars!" feeling a lot of non-cinema heads have.

Eric Stemen · September 18th, 2006, 04:14 PM

Besides not being able to afford to go hd while in in College again. I would wait at least until people have a way to play back hd reasonably. sub $150 blu-ray players.
Besides, things are just going to get better and prices will come down.

Marco Wagner · September 19th, 2006, 12:48 PM

I am very happy with my VX2100 as well but would love to go HD. Is this a good choice currently, I don't believe so. The move to HD is entirely too expensive for production and editing unless your are making some serious coin in the industry. Now if I had the money to throw at HD for my own personal thrills, I would.

Why not HD yet?

1. HD-DVD/BlueRay Players are currently great expensive dust magnets
2. HD-DVD/BlueRay burners are still unavailable OR way over priced
3. HD-DVD/BlueRay media??? Expensive and hard to find?
4. HD-DVD/BlueRay movies, still scarce and unpopular
5. How many people out there have HD TVs and STILL don't understand the technology? For instance, I know 4 individuals that don't have HD cable service but think they are watching actual HD format!!!
6. Ready to purchase faster larger drives, faster multi processors, more RAM just to capture/edit HD? Nope.
7. Ready to jump into the codec, HD standards, and DRM wars? Nope.

So when the world + dog is on the HD wagon, rather than just us enthusiasts, I'll go HD. My estimated move to HD is toward the end of 2007 to the middle of 2008.

Georg Liigand · September 20th, 2006, 08:06 AM

I am estimating the same myself. Marco, you brought out very good points.

Steve Evans · September 22nd, 2006, 11:25 AM

I'm with Marco. I am actually in the market for an additional camera now. It will likely be a PD170, to go along with the VX2100 I have now. I am kind of a gadget freak and a video enthusiast (part time videographer), and I don't even own an HD TV. Until my 52" SD TV quits again, I probably won't even purchase an HD set. I am not in a financial position to stay with the
(b)leading edge stuff, so I do applaud those that are, to help fund the R&D for the future products.

Sheila Ward · September 22nd, 2006, 06:53 PM

My VVX2100 and PD170 are still doing great for me. I may start looking at HD next year, but I am not in a rush to upgrade.

Marcus Marchesseault · September 30th, 2006, 01:08 AM

As of today, I am officially in the market for an HD camera. I just sold my VX2000 to another forum member. It was hard to see it go as it has been, and still is, a great camera. I really wish there was an HDV camcorder with similar light sensitivity as the VX/PD cameras.

I think I am going to explain my personal position using Marco's list of 7 questions:

1. I'm not worried about HD optical players yet as I am planning to master to whatever HD format the local film festival accepts - probably HDV transfered to HDCAM.

2. It's okay that HD-DVD/Blueray aren't ready yet. I can always down-convert to SD.

3. See above.

4. By the time my movie is ready next year, I expect that may have changed.

5. I'm not shooting for the Least Common Denominator...yet...

6. A new editing system upgrade will cost me less than $1500.

7. I don't see any reason why that will have any effect on me. I'm sure HDV will be around for a few years and the next acquisition format will probably be compatible in some way.

If I were still doing a few weddings a month, I would keep something with good light sensitivity like a VX/PD. As it is, the last wedding I did was on an FX1 and the ceremony was projected in quasi-HD at the reception. That and a few extra dollars in my pocket cemented my decision.

Now, I'm seriously looking at the Sony V1U as exposure latitude is one of my primary considerations. Actually, I think I'm more interested in latitude than resolution but I like the 16:9 HD format and the useability features on the new Sony cameras. What I will really miss is the low-light sensitivity, but I have developed my lighting skills quite a bit over the last two years.

If you are still consistently selling SD content, keep the PD/VX or maybe the XL2 or DVX if you want to do 16:9 work. If you are shooting something that you would regret that it would never be seen on HD, it may be time for you to switch.

Marco Wagner · September 30th, 2006, 10:49 AM

Bravo! I like your explanations. Again, If I had the cash I'd do the same. AND it looks like I may be doing the same. The comedy special I shot last week was done primarily in HD by the Universal crew. They had 2 VX2100s in their line up as well though. That made me feel good capturing the behind the scenes and promotional footage with my VX2100. Now it looks as though I may be shooting a few more of those shows. I want to keep the VX and grab and HD cam as well. Now it's just a matter of putting the money together, lol...

Tom Hardwick · September 30th, 2006, 11:05 AM

Well guys and galls, I sold off the two VX2000s this year and went for a Z1 and FX1. Here's a couple of reasons.

The two cameras were pretty easy to sell as the VX2100 can still be had, so the 2000 didn't look too out of date. Next year it'll get harder by the day to sell them as HDV cameras proliferate. Remember Sony have 7 HDV models out right now.

The form factor and ergonomics of the Z1 is streets ahead of the VX/PD. The top screen is a revelation (bin your Hoodmen), the exposure control a delight and the 16:9 - even in SD - is lovely.

Lots of other reasons like a more useful zoom range, takes the same batteries and so on Now iss the hour, good people.

tom.

Marco Wagner · September 30th, 2006, 01:07 PM

Same battery! Really! I just bought an 8 hour for the VX2100, it would be a pleasure to take that expensive battery to the next camera.

Boyd Ostroff · September 30th, 2006, 01:25 PM

The newest models (FX7 and HVR-V1) also use the same batteries. But that's about all you can keep... the filter threads are different sizes on all these camera...

Stu Holmes · September 30th, 2006, 01:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Boyd Ostroff

The newest models (FX7 and HVR-V1) also use the same batteries. But that's about all you can keep... the filter threads are different sizes on all these camera...

Yep thats true : V1 is 62mm thread, and Z1 etc are 72mm thread.

But to me, that sounds like a perfect opportunity to use a step-up ring of 62-to-72mm. So i think all the Z1 filters and attachment lenses could be used successfully on the V1.

Stu Holmes · September 30th, 2006, 01:55 PM

Marco - I do kinda agree that the cost of moving to HD can easily be underestimated.

but just on a few of your points:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marco Wagner

1. HD-DVD/BlueRay Players are currently great expensive dust magnets

The Toshiba HD-A1 is now down in price to $419 and it has been almost universally praised to the skies. It can not only play HD-DVD's really well but almost every other type of DVD or CD in existence. OK $419 is still pricey but it was $500 just a few weeks ago..

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marco Wagner

3. HD-DVD/BlueRay media??? Expensive and hard to find?

Blu-Ray disks have been available for months and months at B&H :
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/cont...ughType=search
Only $17.95 for 25Gb of burnable storage.
OK standard 4.7Gb DVD-R's are only $1.49 from B&H but you do get 5.3times as much storage on a Blu-Ray disk, and prices of Blu-Ray media are likely to drop in time. Plus 50GB dual-layer burnable and rewritable BluRay disks are fully available at the same store.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marco Wagner

4. HD-DVD/BlueRay movies, still scarce and unpopular

Scarce-ish i guess, but a quick check at Amazon shows there are 155 HD-DVD movie-titles currently available for purchase.
(note : i'm not recommending you buy from that store, just using it as an easy to see count of HD-DVD titles!)

People have generally been astonished at the quality and so i think for those who are lucky enough to have a HDTV and a HD-DVD-player, the HD-DVD movies aren't really "unpopular" at all (in that sense).

This is just my opinion on those points, not looking to start a bunfight or anything!!

warm regards

Georg Herbet · July 1st, 2007, 09:49 AM

Many of the responses in this thread were made one year ago--and most said they'd wait on HD.

One year later, I wonder how many have changed their tune?

Richard Zlamany · July 1st, 2007, 12:38 PM

I'll be lucky if I go HD in 2009, but I'll probably switch in 2010. Hopefully, the 2nd generation of the Sony XDCAM EX will be out when I make the switch.

However, I wonder if buying Sony DSR-400L 2/3" 3-CCD Professional DVCAM Camcorder with 920 lines of resolution would look better than HD since it has so many lines of resolution and the low light ability.

September 19th, 2006, 12:48 PM	#18
Marco Wagner Trustee Join Date: May 2005 Location: Saint Cloud, Florida Posts: 1,043	When HD? I am very happy with my VX2100 as well but would love to go HD. Is this a good choice currently, I don't believe so. The move to HD is entirely too expensive for production and editing unless your are making some serious coin in the industry. Now if I had the money to throw at HD for my own personal thrills, I would. Why not HD yet? 1. HD-DVD/BlueRay Players are currently great expensive dust magnets 2. HD-DVD/BlueRay burners are still unavailable OR way over priced 3. HD-DVD/BlueRay media??? Expensive and hard to find? 4. HD-DVD/BlueRay movies, still scarce and unpopular 5. How many people out there have HD TVs and STILL don't understand the technology? For instance, I know 4 individuals that don't have HD cable service but think they are watching actual HD format!!! 6. Ready to purchase faster larger drives, faster multi processors, more RAM just to capture/edit HD? Nope. 7. Ready to jump into the codec, HD standards, and DRM wars? Nope. So when the world + dog is on the HD wagon, rather than just us enthusiasts, I'll go HD. My estimated move to HD is toward the end of 2007 to the middle of 2008. __________________ www.facebook.com/projectspecto

September 20th, 2006, 08:06 AM	#19
Georg Liigand Major Player Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Estonia Posts: 214	I am estimating the same myself. Marco, you brought out very good points. __________________ Panasonic GH5 V-Log L + Metabones 0.64x + Sigma Art 18-35 F1.8; DMW-XLR1; Panasonic HC-X1 camcorder; DJI Ronin MX - CINEFILM Estonia http://www.cinefilm.ee

September 30th, 2006, 10:49 AM	#23
Marco Wagner Trustee Join Date: May 2005 Location: Saint Cloud, Florida Posts: 1,043	Bravo! I like your explanations. Again, If I had the cash I'd do the same. AND it looks like I may be doing the same. The comedy special I shot last week was done primarily in HD by the Universal crew. They had 2 VX2100s in their line up as well though. That made me feel good capturing the behind the scenes and promotional footage with my VX2100. Now it looks as though I may be shooting a few more of those shows. I want to keep the VX and grab and HD cam as well. Now it's just a matter of putting the money together, lol... __________________ www.facebook.com/projectspecto

September 30th, 2006, 01:07 PM	#25
Marco Wagner Trustee Join Date: May 2005 Location: Saint Cloud, Florida Posts: 1,043	Same battery! Really! I just bought an 8 hour for the VX2100, it would be a pleasure to take that expensive battery to the next camera. __________________ www.facebook.com/projectspecto

July 1st, 2007, 09:49 AM	#29
Georg Herbet Regular Crew Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Burbank Posts: 81	One year later... Many of the responses in this thread were made one year ago--and most said they'd wait on HD. One year later, I wonder how many have changed their tune? __________________ I'm a photographer, too, and talk shop at PhotoCamel.

September 18th, 2006, 04:14 PM	#17
Eric Stemen Major Player Join Date: May 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 378	Besides not being able to afford to go hd while in in College again. I would wait at least until people have a way to play back hd reasonably. sub $150 blu-ray players. Besides, things are just going to get better and prices will come down.

September 22nd, 2006, 11:25 AM	#20
Steve Evans New Boot Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: East Texas Posts: 13	I'm with Marco. I am actually in the market for an additional camera now. It will likely be a PD170, to go along with the VX2100 I have now. I am kind of a gadget freak and a video enthusiast (part time videographer), and I don't even own an HD TV. Until my 52" SD TV quits again, I probably won't even purchase an HD set. I am not in a financial position to stay with the (b)leading edge stuff, so I do applaud those that are, to help fund the R&D for the future products.

September 22nd, 2006, 06:53 PM	#21
Sheila Ward Regular Crew Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Arkansas Posts: 107	My VVX2100 and PD170 are still doing great for me. I may start looking at HD next year, but I am not in a rush to upgrade.

September 30th, 2006, 01:08 AM	#22
Marcus Marchesseault Trustee Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Honolulu, HI Posts: 1,961	As of today, I am officially in the market for an HD camera. I just sold my VX2000 to another forum member. It was hard to see it go as it has been, and still is, a great camera. I really wish there was an HDV camcorder with similar light sensitivity as the VX/PD cameras. I think I am going to explain my personal position using Marco's list of 7 questions: 1. I'm not worried about HD optical players yet as I am planning to master to whatever HD format the local film festival accepts - probably HDV transfered to HDCAM. 2. It's okay that HD-DVD/Blueray aren't ready yet. I can always down-convert to SD. 3. See above. 4. By the time my movie is ready next year, I expect that may have changed. 5. I'm not shooting for the Least Common Denominator...yet... 6. A new editing system upgrade will cost me less than $1500. 7. I don't see any reason why that will have any effect on me. I'm sure HDV will be around for a few years and the next acquisition format will probably be compatible in some way. If I were still doing a few weddings a month, I would keep something with good light sensitivity like a VX/PD. As it is, the last wedding I did was on an FX1 and the ceremony was projected in quasi-HD at the reception. That and a few extra dollars in my pocket cemented my decision. Now, I'm seriously looking at the Sony V1U as exposure latitude is one of my primary considerations. Actually, I think I'm more interested in latitude than resolution but I like the 16:9 HD format and the useability features on the new Sony cameras. What I will really miss is the low-light sensitivity, but I have developed my lighting skills quite a bit over the last two years. If you are still consistently selling SD content, keep the PD/VX or maybe the XL2 or DVX if you want to do 16:9 work. If you are shooting something that you would regret that it would never be seen on HD, it may be time for you to switch.

September 30th, 2006, 11:05 AM	#24
Tom Hardwick Inner Circle Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Billericay, England UK Posts: 4,711	Well guys and galls, I sold off the two VX2000s this year and went for a Z1 and FX1. Here's a couple of reasons. The two cameras were pretty easy to sell as the VX2100 can still be had, so the 2000 didn't look too out of date. Next year it'll get harder by the day to sell them as HDV cameras proliferate. Remember Sony have 7 HDV models out right now. The form factor and ergonomics of the Z1 is streets ahead of the VX/PD. The top screen is a revelation (bin your Hoodmen), the exposure control a delight and the 16:9 - even in SD - is lovely. Lots of other reasons like a more useful zoom range, takes the same batteries and so on Now iss the hour, good people. tom.

September 30th, 2006, 01:25 PM	#26
Boyd Ostroff Wrangler Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Mays Landing, NJ Posts: 11,787	The newest models (FX7 and HVR-V1) also use the same batteries. But that's about all you can keep... the filter threads are different sizes on all these camera...

July 1st, 2007, 12:38 PM	#30
Richard Zlamany Major Player Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Hamden CT Posts: 470	I'll be lucky if I go HD in 2009, but I'll probably switch in 2010. Hopefully, the 2nd generation of the Sony XDCAM EX will be out when I make the switch. However, I wonder if buying Sony DSR-400L 2/3" 3-CCD Professional DVCAM Camcorder with 920 lines of resolution would look better than HD since it has so many lines of resolution and the low light ability.