Re: The New F
 

I hope Sony have corresponding lens announcements too - that would be a nice surprise.

In the past they have made some great "kit" lenses at excellent price points. The lens on the PMW350K is optically outstanding for the price and the standard B4 allows you to hire specialist lenses when required.

They have already made a start with the F3 - the 3 primes and the zooms but a compact T2.8 18-85 ish zoom would be great. The prime set is also a little plasticy and needs greater range.

Re: The New F
 

Lots of surprises are coming for sure.

Re: The New F
 

It isn't an issue with technology. Sony could implement it easily. The challenge is for them to admit any other company invents something worth using. Sony doesn't do that very well. That is why I consider it a low probability you will see a CODEC in any Sony camera that Sony didn't have a hand in developing.

Re: The New F
 

There are often questions of "good" or "good enough". 50Mbps 4:2:2 MPEG2 answers the C300 directly and brings the internal codec to broadcast specs. Even the PMW-200 has implemented this codec. "Good enough" for anything for which the C300 is "good enough."

Sony licensing ProRes from Apple? Only slightly more chance than Samsung licensing anything from Apple ;)

As Andy said, be prepared for some surprises.

Ned

Re: The New F
 

At 1:30 min
;)

So it sounds like it´s more than one camera coming. And maybe a fixed lens camcorder, too, as Alister hints. Mmmmh, a Mini F23 at the price slightly above the F3 sounds delicious!

Re: The New F
 

I still keep thinking of the discrepancy between the number of used photosites and the actual number on the FS700 chip. Why? It seems highly likely that one chip was developed with an element of future proofing - use it in a simpler fashion in the FS700, and make fuller use of the capabilities in a future camera. So could that be what we're about to see here?

The only explanation I could previously think of was that it could mean the true shape of the chip was 2.35:1, the FS700 only making use of the 16:9 centre. But as another thought, if the extra photosites were evenly distributed around the core 3840x2160 (and not just to the sides) it would enable film-type viewfinding of outside the active picture area. Very desirable.

I see the 50Mbs codec and 4k to an external recorder as highly likely - but the cryptic comments from those in the know seem to imply more than the obvious.....?

Ah well, we'll know for real soon - but fun to guess and speculate in the meantime!

Re: The New F
 

The F65 chip has quite a bit of extra pixels around the outside of active area that they use for on-the-fly black balancing, etc.

I suspect that that might be a new direction for Sony in general.

Re: The New F
 

Yes, it's quite normal for all chips to have some unused photosites around the edge, the point about the quoted spec for the FS700 chip is that it's far more than would be expected. For example, the following quote is from the C300 specs:
Now if accept that even if the FS700 only uses 3840x2160 like the C300, a 4k product may use 4096x2304 (9.44 megapixels), and the 9.44:9.84 ratio is roughly what I'd expect with the remainder being for black compensation etc as you say.

So why is the FS700 chip so many more? Why 11.6 megapixel in total instead of about 9.8?

Re: The New F
 

The camera is based around a 11.6MP 'Super-35mm' sensor. The Super 35mm format is 13.3mm x 23.6mm this is very nice....

Re: The New F
 

.... this might confirm my suspicion of being switchable between FF and S35.

Re: The New F
 

If it is going to be a professional lens mount such as PL there is little chance it will be FF. There is very little PL glass that will cover FF.

Re: The New F
 

I don't see how. It's very likely the s35 area will be covered by about 9.8 megapixels, if the same sensor as the fs700 is used (11.6mp) the extra are only roughly 20% more area, well short of the doubling that would be needed for FF. This is aside from any considerations of how the read mechanism would work and lens implications.

But spread around the outside edge of the active 9.8mp, that extra 20% would be what would be required to give a non-recorded viewfinding option, so, as with film, you could see such as mic booms coming into shot BEFORE they impact on the actual recorded picture.

Re: The New F
 

There are too few FF lenses in PL mount, and a switchable design would only mean caviates on both modes. Plus the Sony Facebook page is called SonySuper35. So I think it's safe to assume what the sensor size is. BTW the Facebook image is now showing more.

Andy

Re: The New F
 

..I know, I know, I'm just playing along with my photoshop image job.. which by the way has landed on the pages or RED recently.

Re: The New F
 

F5 and F55:
Sony | Showcase

Re: The New F
 

Prices TBA

Re: The New F
 

Looks very nice, but you're right without a price it is hard to say if this would be a gamechanger for me.

Re: The New F
 

Need some photos here in this thread too:

http://www.hingsberg.com/wp-content/...sonylenses.jpg

F5
http://www.hingsberg.com/wp-content/...ransparent.jpg

Super-sampling: Spectacular HD, 2K or 4K
4K/2K RAW recording option
The future is built in
Vast exposure latitude
Viewfinders as revolutionary as the camera
Optional shoulder rig
Modularity and versatility
Choice of recording formats
High speed shooting at up to 120 fps in 2K
High-speed SxS PRO+ media cards
Real world workflows
Incredible flexibilty: PL-mount, FZ-mount and still lenses
Sony CineAlta PL-mount prime lenses: A new generation
More than just a pretty interface
The connections you need
Long-life Olivine Battery

http://www.hingsberg.com/wp-content/...10/thenewf.jpg

Re: The New F
 

Does anybody have a picture of the right side of the camera? My question is, if the F5 has a zoom rocker like the F3 so I could use the Sony SCL-Z18X140 Power Zoom Lens when needed?

Re: The New F
 

Yes, that power zoom lens is specifically mentioned as a lens to be used with the new cameras. It's listed in this pdf:

http://pro.sony.com/bbsccms/assets/f.../F5_Camera.pdf

Re: The New F
 

Thank you Glen! Yes I've seen that in the pdf, but I wasn't sure about if this is true.

Re: The New F
 

Wait! What about AUDIO input provisions? As usual, treated like a red-headed stepchild ;)
They mention XLR inputs in passing, just a few words.

Cheers
Greg

Re: The New F
 

What I love about the F55 is the Global Shutter. Finally...

But, what I'm concerned about for the XAVC codec is whether it supports 1080p60 in Intra-frame. If we could get both 1080p60 and Global Shutter and Intra-frame recording native 60p (not overcranked or etc without audio) this would hands down be the killer cam to own.

Unfortunately, looks like the F5 is still rolling shutter. If the tech could propagate down for global shutters, it'd only be better for everyone.

Re: The New F
 

Jack I agree with you. I want also 1080p50/60 including audio. AVCHD 2.0 can do this so I hope it shouldn't be a problem for XAVC.

Re: The New F
 

the 100Mbps 10bit option might be the best bet for that. If it's intra frame and 1080p60, that would be best.

AVCHD 2.0 at 28Mbps is not enough. The GH3's GOP based 50Mbps is better, but it's 4:2:0.

Edit:

Oh, OK, so Sony and Panasonic are in the same boat right now... The XAVC codec is not going to be in the cameras at launch, like the HPX600.

Also, F5 supports 60fps out of the box, but it's unclear if it's cranked or normal recording.

And since the spec hasn't been implemented yet, can we all wish for a 200Mbps Intra frame option in XAVC before AVC-Ultra comes out?

Re: The New F
 

So I realize I'm probably alone in this but the real appeal to me with this camera is the addition of highspeed but unfortunately the camera isn't expected to be released until february and then the 180 and 240fps upgrades (on the f55) aren't expected to be released until a firmware update is out (which I'm betting won't be free looking at how sony has worked in the past and how arri ran their highspeed upgrade) So the price would have to be VERY competitive to make me want to switch away from my little f3.

I do like the looks of the lenses though, a full 2.0 6 piece set looks nice.

Re: The New F
 

The lens set Looks very nice. The cameras too, but I'm happy with my Epic for the time being. Very curious about the price of the lens kit. $20-25.000 maybe for the full kit?

Re: The New F
 

Yow. Sony means business. I do believe I will be upgrading.

Re: The New F
 

firmware updates will not cost anything.

Re: The New F
 

Wow the F55 sounds nice on paper. Look forward to a visit to Abel once it is there for a test run.

Re: The New F5 & F55
 

Given that these new models are new fully fledged 4K camera systems, it would follow that they warrant a new thread/forum separate from the F3.

Is this possible?

Re: The New F
 

Let's wait until they are shipping at least before a new thread is started, in the meantime incase anyone missed the live chat on Facebook today wiht Sony, here is a link to a transcript if you are interested to check it out.

Please enjoy it while the link lasts: From today's #TheNewF Webchat - October 29th 2012


:D

Re: The New F
 

So far, this is the best info regarding Sony's PMW-F55 and PMW-5.
Den Lennie from f-stop academy posted a hands-on introduction to the cameras.
Worth reading & Watching video included within the link!
Click below!

Sony F5 and F55 (From the horses mouth - not speculation...) - F-Stop Academy

Re: The New F
 

I also wonder what that viewfinder will cost. The "good ones" for the big ENG cameras costs around 8000GBP

Re: The New F
 

Here's another link direct from Sony U.K.
Topic: PMW-F55
Video clip: 18 minutes in length!
Enjoy!

Introducing the PMW-F55 : Sony Professional

Re: The New F
 

The lower cost Sony EVFs will most likely be less than the $8k of the C35W. I'd estimate the smaller one to be in the $2k region. Of course your not tied to Sony EVF's, you can use the HDMI port to output EVF overlays to a third party VF or monitor.

Re: The New F
 

Hi Alister,

I think you will want a high quality VF on the F5 or F55. HDMI would not be my choice for a VF, I want all the functions of the camera I can get in my VF. But if the Sony color 3.5" is only $2K that would be great.

Re: The New F
 

Do the new Sony EVF's use the SDI output and thus are they useable on other cameras (i.e. F3).

Re: The New F
 

No. There's a proprietary viewfinder port on the upper, right side (dumb side) of the camera.

I believe I read it's a new format connector for Sony, digital in nature. To my knowledge, all HD EVF ports on Sony cams prior have carried analog component HD, including the F65.

There's a rumor (yeah, I know) that Sony has been making the OLED panel in the latest iteration of the Red Bomb EVF. Either way, both the new Sony DVF-EL100 OLED and the new Red Bomb are OLED panels at 1280x784. Previous to this last year's NAB, the Red Bomb finder was 720P LCOS. Red owners are raving about the new OLED EVF, and the previous LCOS based unit has taken quite a hit on the used market. Keep in mind even the 720P LCOS is much better than most people have ever put their eye to, I had one on my Red One and I miss it all the time. The Alexa's EVF is also 720p LCOS.

The Red OLED finder is $3900, so I think there's a great chance Sony's version will be a good amount cheaper (my guess, $2500-$2700 list, $2000 street?)

I suspect we're in for a real treat with the 720p OLED. I have the 17" Sony OLED PVM and it's one of my most coveted pieces of gear, bar-none.

Re: The New F
 

Nate is right. It is actually the same connector as on the PMW500/350/320 but uses a new digital interface. I tried to plug in an EVF from a 350 and the Sony guy from Japan told me not to because it wouldn't work.

I wondered whether the 3.5" EVF was the same panel as the 320/350 kit EVF but it actually appeared sharper when I tried it. Can't wait to see the OLED EVF, should be great. The Cynic in me wonders whether the new interface is to stop it poaching sales from Sony's existing high end EVFs!