Production F5/F55. No exposure metering.
 

I recently had a pre-production F5 to play with and found quite a few things missing from the menu's. I was told the pre-production camera I had was essentially the same as a production unit. Anyway, I got to try out a production camera today and guess what? All the same stuff is missing. My biggest concern is the complete lack of any decent exposure measurement tools. It does have zebras, but these only go down to 50%. So, if you want to use S-log2 or similar your going to need to use a light meter or external monitor with waveform display. There is no spot meter, no histogram, no waveform monitor on the F5 with the first release firmware. The menu system is also slow and sluggish. I expect these issues will be addressed with later firmware updates.

Re: Production F5/F55. No exposure metering.
 

Not that I disagree, but using the zebras to put "big whites" at 75 or 80 might be an interim solution.

Not good I know, but probably what I will do in the meantime.

Re: Production F5/F55. No exposure metering.
 

Apparently the zebras don't go over 50.

Re: Production F5/F55. No exposure metering.
 

Usually the case is they go from 108% to some lower point (but not 0).

If they go from 108 to 50, I'd set whites using them.

If the go from 0 to 50, then I'd set middle grey at 30.

Re: Production F5/F55. No exposure metering.
 

Maybe the poster meant it doesn't go under 50, that's quite normal. I think my F3 only goes so low but can't recall.

Re: Production F5/F55. No exposure metering.
 

Yes Nate, for the moment I will also use the Zebras to check my whites. I believe for S-Log2 the recommended level is 68. You can alter the zebra window so you can make it narrower for more accurate readings.

Re: Production F5/F55. No exposure metering.
 

Keeping a LUT on is another way to expose correctly. There's plenty of latitude to miss exposure by a stop (even two) and still be ok, especially if you use a LUT.

On some SLog2 XAVC clips I have, the beginning of one shot has an ND on it and is 3 stops under for a few seconds. Was able to bring up gain in post those 3 stops and you can't even tell the difference unless you put your nose to the monitor and see a tiny bit more noise in the shade.

Re: Production F5/F55. No exposure metering.
 

Bringing S-log2 up is not a problem, other than the inevitable noise increase. But as with every other log curve bringing down skin tones by large amounts is not so desirable as you loose the subtle textures that make a face look real. At least if you shoot raw on the R5 that issue goes away.

Re: Production F5/F55. No exposure metering.
 

I know what you mean, I've experienced it before, but...

I've been experimenting at length with proper LUTs lately (with Slog2 clips), finding if things are de-logged correctly you don't have this problem (or at least not to the same degree).

Also finding some of the 1D LUTs Sony has been putting out leave a bit to be desired. Not just the saturation problem.

Re: Production F5/F55. No exposure metering.
 

Nate, have you encountered any 'proper' 3D LUTs that you think work well for SLOG from the F3?

Re: Production F5/F55. No exposure metering.
 

One member of Sony US's F65 team has given me an alpha/beta version of a Slog2 3D LUT to try out.

It would be incredible if it could be used in-camera, but alas, it cannot.

I aim to get an HDLink to live with my 17" monitor and at least see that LUT on the big monitor while shooting.

Re: Production F5/F55. No exposure metering.
 

For those that haven't got the R5 recorder on their F5/55's, there's also no in camera LUT's available at all.... so all you've got for 10bit XAVC is zebra's on peak white!

Re: Production F5/F55. No exposure metering.
 

And the base ISO is different between Cine EI (R5 enabled raw/log mode) and Custom S-log2.

In Cine EI the cameras are 1250(F55)/2000(F5) ISO and in Custom they are 1600(F55)/2500(F5).

This might be to force your exposure a little lower (assuming you using a light meter) in the non-raw mode as S-Log2 doesn't quite have the dynamic range of raw.

There is already a firmware update for the camera (which I'm trying to track down) and there will be lots of updates coming over the next few months, so hopefully the exposure tools and basic luts will get sorted quite quickly.

Re: Production F5/F55. No exposure metering.
 

I can't afford to buy an F5 or 55 so I'm just an observer to all these posts but I must say I am astonished that Sony engineering is listening so little to its own user base. How in the world could they come out with such expensive cameras and leave off exposure tools and white balance buttons, let alone decent user LUT's when they are competing with RED and Alexa which make it so much easier.
What is wrong with these guys? I'm willing to wager that the Sony American side has told them this stuff over and over.

Re: Production F5/F55. No exposure metering.
 

I think its a double edged sword for Sony. They either release the camera early to try to gain a share of the market, facing justified criticism for unfinished firmware or wait another year until it's all finished and perhaps other cameras have secured a significant market share and release the camera to a market that has already chosen a different camera system.

Metering, LUT's etc will come, Sony are listening. Incomplete feature sets are common on many new release cameras. Arri, Red, Panasonic, JVC have all released cameras that have had stuff missing in recent years.

I'm pleased with my F5, yes, its frustrating that some of the features are not there yet, but the pictures I'm getting are beautiful, so for now I'm happy to live with using a light meter or external monitor with waveform.

Re: Production F5/F55. No exposure metering.
 

Alister,
Hopefully you are right about those features coming in the near future, but I suspect you are being a little to generous to the Sony design team. Not including essential features that have been in previous cameras for years and others that have been requested for years doesn't sound like they weren't ready yet, so much as they just weren't thought of in the original design.
Of course no way for us to know, just kind of disconcerting.

For my often fast moving work even if I could afford an F5 or F55 ( and I am tempted) the exposure tools and white balance button are all serious issues that would be deal breakers for now.

Having finally used the RED Epic a few times recently I have been surprised at how much more user friendly its been than I expected. Especially in the ease with which I can show and even record a good LUT without any effort at all. Someone must have been thinking of these kinds of issues at the design stage from the get-go. Of course in many ways I prefer my F3 .

Re: Production F5/F55. No exposure metering.
 

Given the F3 has histogram, I'm quite sure the F5/55 team thought of exposure tools.

The difference was they were moving the F65s GUI/menu software downwards, not the F3/EX1r/3 GUI upwards.

Right now the menu system is slow. Which makes me speculate (perhaps in error) that the frame rate on the menu system just isn't fast enough for exposure tools yet.

Regardless, while the lack of histogram or waveform drives me buggy right now, I am thrilled with the images I'm getting and it's enough of step forward I am glad I jumped from the F3. I can put up with lack of one tool for all of the other things I get with the whole.

Surprisingly, I've been ok without exposure tools. I'm finding SLog2 is easier to get exposure right by eye.

Re: Production F5/F55. No exposure metering.
 

It is indeed a double-edged sword for Sony but I think they did the right thing releasing the cameras on schedule as indicated last year. Early adopters always pay some price for this but already in the 1st or 2nd week of delivering cameras already 2 firmware updates have been released and I know more will come soon.

Right now it would make sense that efforts are prioritized to address and major bugs or issuse before looking at improving some other areas of the camera. Although I do find it very absurd the camera didn't ship with at least some form of exposure tool.

As Nate points out, working with slog2 on-screen is actually not as difficult as slog was on the F3 for example. Mid-tones are not drastically boosted but instead nice and low so the images is not as "milky white".

Re: Production F5/F55. No exposure metering.
 

Dennis are you using S-Gamut? There's a big difference between S-Log2 in custom mode and S-Gamut or Cine EI mode. But yes I do think S-Log2 is a little easier to eyeball. I'll have some info on a rather nice monitoring/metering solution later in the week.

Re: Production F5/F55. No exposure metering.
 

I am not using the AXS-R5 recorder with the F55, so cine IE mode is not available and the shooting mode is locked to "custom".

I am using the slog2 gamma curve, but burried in the menu there are additional options to select to color space you want to work in.

Under System -> Base Setting you can select Main Operation to be YPbPr or RGB and under Color Space you can select Normal or S-Gamut.

I am using S-Gamut along with the slog2 gamma curve.