I am pretty sure 1920x1080 at 60p is not possible with mpeg2 so a move to a very high level of AVC would be needed in order to get that type of video.

While we may at some point get some funky camera to record a funky form of 60p you guys will be waiting a very long time for a delivery option for that type of video. If you could shoot that type of video you would have to choose to deliver it as 1920x1080ix60i or 1280x720px60p in which case you would have been better off just shooting in that format to begin with.

For the very tiny quality boost you would get I just don't see how spending twice the amount of bandwidth is worth it. No TV station is going to eat up double the bandwidth just for that tiny boost in quality. Most consumers who are still very happy with DVD is going to be perfectly happy with 720px60p and 1080ix60i for a very long time yet.

This whole 1920x1080x60p thing is just insane and is more of a sick fantasy then anything of any great use other then to waste money.

Sorry - I disagree, and the latest research has shown that the additional bandwidth required to transmit 1080p/50 is nothing like twice as much as for 1080i/25. Although the initial data rate may well be twice as much, it compresses far better, so the COMPRESSED data rate is far less than that would suggest.

The BBC in the UK has just released a detailed report about it's plans to start a full HD service next year - http://www.bbc.co.uk/bbctrust/assets...onclusions.pdf - and one section is relevant to technical issues.
From which it seems they see a move to 1080p/50 highly likely - the only concern being not rendering existing home displays obsolete.

Once more: at 1/50th (1/60th) of a second it IS 1440x540. Due to displacing it look somewhat more (+/-750) when playing, I never denied that. but every FIELD is just 1440x540.
Since 720p50 has no fields, just full frames, it has full resolution every 1/50th (1/60th) of a second.

Stitching together SD can never work, because there's no 50p mode is SD (unless with JVC HD100). You have to stich some 720p50 together to get some 1080p. Never try to get decent progressive images out of interlaced onces - you always loose quality, that's just the raw laws of physics.

Indeed: All or virtually all compression schemes work far more efficiently with progressive images, therefore you can have less compression artifacts in 1080p then in 1080i, withouth doubling bandwith - although, the larger the bandwith, the better of course.

Obviously 1080p50 and 1080p60 is no sick fantasy - it is the logical next standard and a serious improvement over 720p50 (and an even bigger improvement over 1080i50). It is defenately no slight improvement. Furthermore is it a logical stardard that will fit all LCD- and Plasma-displays, as they are pushing that new standard (known by regular consumers as "Full HD").

The Convergent Designs XDR recorder discussed here recently includes a 1080i/p recording mode using MPEG2 compression at variable data rates of 50 or 100 Mbps. http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthrea...d-sdi+recorder

I'm not sure why we're discussing 1080i versus 720p here given the original topic of this thread, which is the XDCAM EX versus the JVX HD-250U. The EX can record 720p60 like the JVC (but at higher bandwidth) or record in 1080 formats with twice the real-world resolution, so all around better than the JVC by any technical measure. If you like shoulder-mounted cameras that's a different discussion, and form factor is an important consideration in picking a camera.

I don't think it's just the progressive nature. Go to higher resolution frames and it's possible to use higher levels of compression, even when both systems are progressive - hence it still shouldn't be 2x the 720p/50 data rate after compression.
All true, and once accessories like radio mic receivers and camera lights start to be used, the JVC form factor starts to take on even more significance. It's also pretty easy to add a Firestore to a JVC camera, and still end up with an ergonomic package, and some users may find that tape+tapeless combination a big draw.

Yes that is for 1080i 60i or 1080p 24p,25p or 30p. Nowhere does it ever say it can encode 1080p 60p.

MPEG2 is scalable to 1080p.

And neither can the JVC, so I don't see how that's relevant to this comparison. In any case, the EX1 works well and makes a fine alternative to other HD cameras in the same price range, depending on your particular needs.

I was commenting on the fact that no camera while still using mpeg2 will be able to do 1080p 60p. This includes HD broadcast as well. So if JVC or SONY sticks with mpeg2 then you will not see 1080p 60p. Also until the point when we can make Blu-Ray and HD-DVD discs with VC1 and AVCHD encoding you will have no way to deliver 1080p 60p.

So while in a few years 1080p 60p may be nice it is pointless to think about it right now. This is why it is a fantasy. Until we can shoot with it and make use of it it is a fantasy. Sure maybe some people are working on a solution but it isn't ready yet so it is pointless to get all worked up over a format that isn't even around yet. When it does come out it may be awhile before any of us will be able to deliver with such a format.

This is relevant because I am trying to point out for now we can use 720p 60p or 1080 60i or 1080p 30p. So we should all go back to thinking about using those formats and stop thinking about 1080p 60p.

This is ridiculous. You need a well adapted bandwith (less than double indeed but still adapted to the raw datastream), but there's nothing in the MPEG2 that prohibits encoding in 1080p50 and/or1080p60. More so, MPEG2 will probably be a preferred format for 1080p, because codecs without temporal efficiency would eat up too much bandwith.

1080p50 or 1080p60 in MPEG2 with 6 (or 12) frame GOP and a bandwith of 50-100Mbps would look very, very good indeed.

On the EX1 in HQ 1080i mode each field would be 1920x540, and in 1080p mode would be 1920x1080. In 720p60 mode the still-frame resolution would be the same as a JVC HDV camera, but with slightly more bandwidth per frame.

After shooting some footage on the EX1 this weekend I'm hungry for even higher resolution: when can I get 4K at 60 fps? ;-)