Fewer recording on options in Pal mode than NTSC
 

Please excuse the terrible English above. I tried to correct it but I can't!

There are fewer settings when in Pal mode. For example in NTSC mode I can record in 1080p 30 in non HQ mode as well as HQ mode, but in Pal I can only record 1080p 25 in HQ mode.

Any ideas why?

Also when people shoot in progressive and click on expanded focus does the display break up before showing the zoomed in version? In interlace it doesn't do it, just progressive.

I am still getting to grips with all the options, but so far it is quite wonderful.

One last thing, with the battery charger, my charging progress leds don't work. Am assuming they should and it is faulty!

Phil, not having the camera yet and basing only on the manual, I've been wondering why no 25PsF or 30PsF mode in SP (HDV), while the 24PsF with pull down is there!

Now you're getting me interested again: if the 30 PsF mode is present in SP, so must be the 25PsF! They're both in HDV specs (just like with the V1).

How do you set the SP mode to 30p? Didn't see it in the manual...

PAL or NTSC in HD?
 

Smart mode on ^^
Phil, just for the record:
There is no such thing like PAL mode or like NTSC mode in HD.
Smart mode off ^^

The mode you're using is not smart enough; the NTSC and PAL framerates differ in HD just like they do in SD (resolutions are the same, though).

Exactly. I call it Pal and NTSC because when you buy a camera like an HVX which is Pal it only records in 50i or 25p. The NTSC version 60i, 30p or 24p.

It's the easiest way to label it rather than 50i/25p or 60i/30p/24p. Also in the EX1 menus they are actually labelled as PAL and NTSC!!! So I was actually correct, for once!

I don't have a smart mode, if I had I would have just read the manual but as I am a bloke, I don't need manauls! If I had read it I would have found a simple answer to my dumb question.

It's 24p that only records in SP mode. There is no 24p HQ mode at all. Of course the "PAL" settings.

By the way Piotr, how are you getting on with your dealer (who isn't a sponsor!)? There is one rather "puzzling" retailer in the UK that lists the EX1 as in stock on their website, they are usually pretty accurate. I just find it quite surprising as they seem to be in such short supply. Then again they do seem to be one of the first retailers to get them in as they supplied Paul Joy. Curious...

I am interested to see if anyone has got one from videogear.co.uk (the dvi sponsor) as their prices are the lowest I have seen, despite not being an official Sony dealer I was wondering if anyone has ordered/ got one from them?

Phil, I'm interested in the breaking up you mention when going to expanded view. I mentioned in one of my first posts after getting the camera that the LCD would fill with flickering green bars for a moment before the mode changes, is this what you are seeing?

I also saw this effect when changing shooting modes or flicking the camera between camera and media mode.

Paul.

refering to the manual the cam should be switchable between NTSC area and PAL area. the modes:

- NTSC Area:
HQ 1080i 59,94
SP 1080i 59,94
HQ 1080p 29,97
HQ 1080p 23,98
SP 1080p 23,98
HQ 720p 60 fps
HQ 720p 30 fps
HQ 720p 24 fps

- PAL Area:
HQ 1080i 50
SP 1080i 50
HQ 1080p 25
HQ 720p 50 fps
HQ 720p 25 fps

How long does it take to change the mode on the Camera ?
Directly or restart like on the Z1 ?

I wonder there ist no straight 30p and 24p mode for 1080p.
1080 is 23,98fps, 720 is 30 fps .. I hope this makes no problems later in editing a mix of 1080 & 720 ..

And strange - why I do have to switch a mode on a digital storage based system ? This makes no sense - why can´t I simply select the mode I want from a single menue ?

That is what I get, but only in progressive mode. I wonder why?

It changes very fast and there is no restarting. There is a straight 30p mode in 1080p, it's 29.97, which often just gets rounded up to 30.

what do you mean about "switch a mode"?

Phil, did not want to be offensive in any way, sorry. I know, it's a tricky situation and I do fully understand why you label it like you do.
To that respect I wish PAL and NTSC definitions were amended with HD resolutions.
IMHO that would make discussions much clearer and easier.

Hi Phil,

By this comment do you mean that the 24p mode isn't in the PAL mode?

I assume though that 1080p24 HQ is available in the NTSC mode, right?? Not just SP?

I've heard the distinctions referred to as "50Hz area" and 60Hz area" which seem far more accurate in the world of HD. Strict definitions of PAL and NTSC only refer to analogue signals anyway, and "PAL" doesn't necessarily mean 50Hz. (As South Americans must be only too well aware!)

No, 24p is in the "NTSC area" only

on the z1 it is labelled as 50/60 but the EX1 calls it pal area and ntsc area

David, that is why in HD the correct denominations are 1080i50 and 1080p25 as well as 1080i60 and 1080p30 to name but a few of the incarnations. Pal however is no longer analogue signals any more. These are getting replaced by digital ones un a format called DBV in various forms (look here: www.dbv.org).
Did not know about a 60Hz Pal area, though. Thanks for that info.

The Z1 label is much clearer to me then the EX1's. Thanx for mentioning it.

Hi Peter & David,

Link correction: www.dvb.org

In the UK this is how we receive DTT in SD PAL form (Freeview etc...) - soon to include HD in certain areas by 2009/2010, rolling out to most areas by 2012 for the London Olympics (at which point analogue broadcasts will have been switched off & fading away into space for the last time).

Sorry for going a little off thread!

Oh, bad typo, sorry. Thanks Dave.

And just to clearify, DVB is a transmission format, while Pal or NTSC
are signal formats, as are all the HD variants.

All 24p formats should be under Hollywood Area in the menus :)

As stated before there is a Country menu for NTSC Area (60Hz) and PAL Area (50Hz). 24p should not be in any of those in my opinion. But if there where to be no Area selection the format menu would not fit the lcd screen and need to scroll down (It does already need to scroll down when set to NTSC Area but only one step).

I would like to see a firmware update using this menu.

Format:
>Progressive

HQ 720p24
HQ 720p25
HQ 720p30
HQ 720p50
HQ 720p60
SP 1080p24
HQ 1080p24
HQ 1080p25
HQ 1080p30

>Interlaced

SP 1080i50
SP 1080i60
HQ 1080i50
HQ 1080i60

Quite right, but the digital signals transmitted via the DVB system in Europe are properly known as 576i/25, and that could just as correctly be referred to as SECAM as PAL - "PAL" only has a relevance if the signals are output as a composite signal. A French DVB receiver may well output them as analogue SECAM.
Looking on Wikipedia - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PAL-M_(television) - I see it's confined to Brazil, whereas I'd thought several South American countries used it. Point is, it uses the PAL system of coding colour with a 60Hz framerate, the term "PAL" doesn't uniquely mean a 50Hz system.

My feeling is that 24p being under "60Hz area" is fine, since it would only be used there (with 3:2 pulldown). In a "50Hz area" 25p is likely to be used instead. But "Hollywood area" as a third option also seems a good idea.......... :)

Note that we have two 24p modes in this camera:

- native 24p (HQ)
-24PsF with pulldown inside 60i (SP)

This is why it beats me why there is no 25/30PsF in SP, within the 50i/60i respectively.

This may be a meander off-thread again, but I have a Blu-ray version of the landmark "Planet Earth" series (BBC box-set) which appears to be 24p within a 1080i60 format (ie, with 3:2 pulldown).
I have to say it is noticably jerkier than I recall the SD Tx to have been, still watchable, just a little disappointing as the original 25p(in 50i) has been converted to fit into a 60Hz format.
A little unexpected for a UK-originated production, no...? Well perhaps, but I guess this format was chosen as it is universally viewable across most territories (the US being a large potential market for it) - thus avoiding the need to produce a disc each for the 50Hz and 60Hz markets.

I am worried that for this reason, there are precedents being set that will result in HD @50Hz becoming a broadcast-only format, ie. mass-produced Blu-ray/HD-DVDs will only come in 60Hz flavours (24p/30p/60i) as it is currently the most 'universal' standard. If this happens then player manufacturers may drop support for 50Hz playback altogether (if they ever had it) in order to trim the RRP down to where it needs to be.

In this case, the question is; does shooting in a 50Hz flavour of HD really mean I am future-proofing, or is the only 'safe' choice a 60Hz flavour ?

Andreas, I like your Hollywood Area idea ;-)

Nevertheless to differentiate only between "progressive" and "interlaced" frame rates makes absolutely sense in world where it should be paramount tear down borders (in many respects).

I had discussion with technical heads at Czech TV and basically, I am told that in PAL area these days, all tv and most if not all feature films are shot at 25 fps to avoid the 4% speed change that used to be done to films when they were broadcast on PAL tv. So, there is essentially no need for 24 fps in (some) PAL countries. Also, if one wants to shoot in 24 fps (in PAL world), I don't see a reason why not use one of the 'so-called' NTSC settings, which as we established are not NTSC anyway because they are simply HD with 'NTSC' frame/scan rate. Simply switching to 1080p at 24 fps should be all that needs to be done. Shouldn't it?

I hope so - that's my plan!

Sorry of being ignorant on this, but is this camera PAL and NTSC? If I buy the camera in New York will it be suitable for Europe (PAL areas)? The video out can be switchable to PA or NTSC?

Stelios

Neither - it's HD only.
Yes, because it does all the 50Hz based HD formats as well as the 60Hz ones.

All my 25p cameras have shutter speeds that go down to 1/25. The EX1 when in 25p only goes to 1/33 and the overcranking is 60 fps rather than 50fps. Both of these are setting for 30p cameras. How come?

Don't have my EX1 yet, but I understand that when you switch the electronic shutter to OFF (with the switch), you'll have the equivalent of 1/25th in 25fps, 1/30th in 30 fps and so on (one full exposure per each full frame).