There is always some piece of information I forget to ask. CineForm HD Export is using our tools, when the other method is not. Our export is faster, higher quality, and more stable it seems. Glad things are now working out.

I've never used Cineform before but I'm wondering if I'm doing something wrong here. I'm using the defaults for HDLink except for setting the quality to high. When I process the .mp4 files from the EX1 the resultant .avi files from HDLink are much larger than the original .mp4's. For example, 198MB to 688MB, 635MB to 1.8GB, 158MB to 703MB. Am I doing something wrong here? I thought it was supposed to produce smaller files. I also notice that I get a little static throughout the audio on the resultant .avi files. I don't hear that static when I play the raw .mp4 files. Any clues?

Travis, the files will be larger.

Cineform is essentially an intermediate codec that is intraframe wavelet-based compression (not DCT compression) that is 6:1 to 10:1 smaller than their uncompressed YUV equivalent.

The idea is we are signifantly smaller than uncompressed, while maintaining the advantages of uncompressed. Audio issues are of interest, can you please upload a sample MP4 file that does has audio problems?

My camera won't be here until next Friday or so.

I'm wondering how long it's taking to convert the .mp4 clips to Cineform using HDLink?

Can't wait to try this stuff out!

Looking forward to the Cineform SDI recording device.

It just MPEG, so about the same speed as HDV. If you PC is multi-core, and or multi-proc then faster than 1:1.

Same story here. Also having weird audio drop-outs during playback of the timeline in CS3.

ALSO:

Today I captured about 1/2 an hour of footage on approximately 70 different clips in 1080p25HQ.

I dragged them to my PC, then told HDLink to "Open Folder" and convert them all to Cineform AVI at "High" quality, and shrink them to 720x576 for eventual DVD output.

It failed instantly and froze my computer and I had to restart.

I went back and tried it again with just two files rather than all 70, but it still froze my computer and I had to restart again. In fact any time that I tried to convert more than one file at a time, it froze and I had to restart.

Also, it would happen at random, even when converting single clips. It would sometimes freeze but the computer would be recoverable, other times, I would need to press reset.

I didn't experience one problem when doing a simple mp4 to avi conversion, so I think the trouble was the downconversion.

The only other trouble I had was the weird static audio I got in the converted files.

The downscaled video from HD to SD looked beautiful though!

David, I'm not sure how to upload a file. You mean upload it here? Is there a size limit?

To upload a file, use a free service like yousendit.com to send to my mail address, which is DNewman at cineform.com. The file will still need to be under 100MB for the free service.

Please, we need files that do this, as now of our show the problem.

We will look into the scaling issue (I haven't heard this report.) Yes, our scaler is very nice quality.

Still need any sample that has the audio issue. I have love to get it fixed before the weekend, yet none of our media is doing it.

Just reporting good news, downloaded the 3.2.2.b and MXF to AVI works fine. Without issues the AVI is created and it plays fine. Did only a test on 3 short clips.

Though: on first notice it looks like the Cineform AVI clips play more difficult and with a bit more stutter in Sony Vegas then when using the MXF file. Could it be true that the avi's use more resources of the PC, so there is no speed advantage using the Cineform codec?

(details: playing a 1080/50i 35mbps sample clip with a horizontal pan, preview window quality half size, playback framerate of avi goes down to 13 - mxf goes down to 18 frames, and with a dual Xenon processor 3,3GHz PC, 2 Gb Ram)

Regards,
Erwin

I could be wrong, but I believe it's the "no free lunch" thing.

Cineform offers a larger intraframe (each frame has its own information; No GOP) intermediate file of the original that will allow
intense post work and multiple renders without destroying the image quality.

I'm a real fan of Cineform. I'm really looking forward to a portable SDI>Cineform solution.
Hopefully less than $3K.

John & others,

For those have the audio and/or resizing issues with MP4 source clips, we may have the solution (other then switching to MXF which is working fine.) While we haven't been sent any news clips (please if you can) we did find a bug that impacted image resizing and maybe audio quality.

Here is the fix:
http://www.miscdata.com/cineform/CFM...SourcePush.zip

With CineForm tools closed, unzip and replace the same file in C:\Program Files\Common Files\CineForm

Start up HDLink and please re-try the MP4 conversions. Thank you.

Ok, after some more testing still problems here with HDLink: roughly about 1 out of every 10 mxf files that I try to convert to AVI are strangely not working and are complete green.

An example file is posted here:
http://www.dendv.nl/elements/test/

Also added a picture so you can see how funny it looks like in Windows Explorer with thumbnails on :-( green clips all over the place.

I couldn't convert this file and many others even after a second or third attempt.

Now all files are the same 1080/50i ... and of course one should think they should behave the same...


Regards,
Erwin

Thank you for posting a sample file, I hope to have time to check it out tomorrow and I will report back.

Erwin,

Yes there was a bug in the MXF file reader. Now fixed.

Download http://www.miscdata.com/cineform/CFMXFReader.zip

unzip and replace the CFMXFReader.ax file in C:\Program Files\Common Files\CineForm

Then convert this green clips again.

Thanks.

P.S. The MXF and MP4 patches will be standard parts of the next build.

David,

Wanted to thank you guys at Cineform again for a firggin' awesome product. The EX1 and Prospect really are an awesome combination!

Thanks John, we really do try our best.

David,

I'm using NeoHDV 3.2.2 to convert an MXF.

The program stops if I select the 'Change framerate from 60fps to 30fps' option.

I have a sample 720p60 MXF file if you need it:
http://www.palsomedia.com/ex1_test/ex1_720p60.mxf

Thanks

Bernard,

Thank you for this report, and more testing has confirmed your findings. Currently you can't a slow motion resampling from an EX1 MXF or MP4 file. There is a bug in HDLink that only enables this type from resampling from some source like HDV and AVCHD yet not so with XCDAM-EX. A work-around is to do this in two passes, convert to AVI then resample the result. We will file the bug report.

It may be necessary to use the MXF format in case the clip is split into multiple MP4 files when the camera switches from one card to another or when the clip exceeds 4GB. The files can be combined using the the EX Clip Browser to export a single MXF file, and then convert the MXF to a Cineform AVI/mov file.

David, I'm still having the audio "popping" issues. I downloaded the file you referenced above but it made no difference. I've hosted the original .mp4 file as well as the converted .avi file for you to download. I'm sending an email to you with a link to these files. The popping seems to start about 3 seconds into each clip.

I've noticed a few other oddities as well. When I use CS3 and bring one of the .avi files to the source preview window the video looks what I would call normal when paused but when I play it the brightness is increased and the contrast is decreased.

Also, after using HDLink to convert one of the .mp4 files to .avi and then trying to open it up using Windows Media Player I immediately get a dialog box stating, "Windows Media Player encountered a problem while playing the file. For additional assistance, click Web Help. <close> <web help>" The file continues playing behind the dialog box but with no sound at all. Clicking close or web help shuts down Windows Media Player.

This is a brand new install of Windows Vista retail version, no crapware installed, and no other software whatsoever other than Adobe CS3 and Prospect HD.

Also, on a side note of interest, I have a Sony HDR-SR8 camcorder. This is a high-def hard drive based camcorder which uses AVCHD. The files on the camcorder are .mts files. When I use HDLink to convert them I get "squished" files that are 1440x1080. Additionally if I play the resultant .avi files in Windows Media Player I do not get the error I get when I try to play the converted .mp4 files from the EX1. Just like the converted .mp4 files however I get no audio in Windows Media Player. And finally, when I import the .avi files into CS3 they import as video only, no audio. The native .mts files do have audio as I can copy them to another computer and use Nero to play them and the audio comes through with no problem.

"Windows Vista retail version, no crapware installed.." Other then Vista :)

Submit a bug report at www.cineform.com/support. Some other issues have been addressed, some we haven't heard of before. Getting a sample clip we will helpful determining what the audio issue is. Although we aren't get any other reports on this.

No offense, but while I expect to hear to hear sarcastic coments from people regarding other people's choices on operating system, editing software, cameras, codecs, etc. I don't expect it from a professional company I just spent $1000 with for a piece of software. Particularly one that's not working as advertised at the moment.

What happens when you talk to engineering rather than going through support. You normally don't get to talk to engineering with other companies. We don't have time for the sarcasism filters. Plus I was being clearly had my tongue-in-check. Please work with www.cineform.com/support, I'm personally looking into these audio pops.

sadly there is not very good support for vista for audio/video production with most software and drivers right now. on cineform's website it says that vista is not supported (under pc system requirements: " OS Windows XP plus Service Pack 2 w/DirectX 9 (Vista support coming)").

probably doesn't help much to say, but if you can at all go back to xp, you'll be better off. <ducks> i've seen comparisons that showed vista is 70%, um 70% slower :( than xp on soem standard productivity benchmarks (heard that xpsp3 is 10% faster than xpsp2).

Sometimes it does get frustating with software, but David and Cineform are
one of the best software company's to have around...
They don't fool around, just get the job done as issues arise....

I'm sure David was just demonstrating most of our thoughts as to Vista....

Thats why the majority of Video Editing Workstations are staying away from Vista... too many issues that will take a year or so to work out...

Not to mention some of the NLE issues that have shown up because most had to be rewritten to accomodate Vista...

So third party folks like Cineform are having a great time right now... plus adding new camera's real time.

Some of us have all ready gone thru the fine tweeks that Cineform is so gracious to supply... ie... HV20

These guys don't get much better than this....

Plus, its still in quasi beta stages for the EX1, as the bugs are still being discovered and repaired at lightening speed...

Sorry, I had to say some good things... I just wrote out the check for my property taxes... :-(

Thanks David, keep up the good work

lmao, offended by a Vista joke? Now THATS funny. =)

Think mayhaps a little gratitude for all the time that David has spent on this forum is in order instead of jumping on em what was obviously an innocent jab (at Microsoft, not you).

I for one am grateful that someone from a company like Cineform would actually come here to post and think its a shame that people would risk running off these kind of resources. This is the second time a lighthearted comment got twisted into something more. Does no one here have a sense of humor or are we just that frickin uptight and bight the hand that feeds?

- Ray

IMO, Cineform offers the best support i've seen, period!

My first interchange with D.A.N., I was a little piqued. I've since seen how hard he works and how much David is committed to his customers. In fact, I was impressed enough to move up from Neo HDV to Neo HD. Cineform has my support.

Thank you, David. I wish other companies were as customer oriented.

I'm about to move from NEO HDV to NEO HD. I'm waiting on the non beta release.

I'm sorry, but I'm with Vista on this.

Why?

Because Vista is baby-friendly.

Here:

http://www.freakingnews.com/Windows-...ures-32571.asp

New Prospect HD build 3.2.3.150 will be going up today, fixes a bunch of things. However, the audio pop fix didn't make it into the build. This was a tough one, it seems Premeire didn't like the audio buffer size we where using. The MP4s will need to be converted again.

Go to www.cineform.com for latest PHD build.

Here is the new patch:
http://www.miscdata.com/cineform/CFM...SourcePush.zip

Install Propsect HD first, then unzip and replace CFMP4AudioSourcePush.ax within C:\Program Files\Common Files\CineForm

David, the Patch is a dead link for me.

Also, is it the PHD install/build, the same for my P2K licence or do I need a different build? Thank you.

Edit: Patch http://www.miscdata.com/cineform/CFM...SourcePush.zip

All new builds are now available at www.cineform.com.

Link now fixed, and repeated here : http://www.miscdata.com/cineform/CFM...SourcePush.zip

So David, NEO HD is fully functional with the EX1 and Vegas?

Yes. Even support HDSDI capture for keyer effects work if you need.

I downloaded the prospect2k trial and converted 720p25 clip to cineform. Clip plays trough in realtime in premiere CS3 but when I do cut and I basicly come into the clip when it is somewhere middle of it, the clip doesn't play real time anymore. This problem can be solved by exporting the clip where I am cutting out with clip where I'm cutting into one single prospect clip. But this is hardly a solution... since i can't possibly export every single cut I make just to see it in real time. Is my computer too slow to play it real time (core2duo with 2gigs of ram) or is this some sort of interframe codec problem?