Portable drive for the field?
 

I am taking my EX1 for a travel shoot next month in the Caribbean. I am trying to figure out the best work flow to offload cards through a Macbook Pro.

We will be out in parks and areas where I have no power so I need a drive that is powered from the MBP. I have been looking at the Wiebetech Toughtech Mini.

Are 5400rpm drives fast enough for storage only or is it that much better to stick with 7200 model drives?

I am also researching a small Raid system for edit studio use so any portable drives that can be used in the filed and removed from a portable enclosure and put in a Raid storage would be nice.

Any information on field storage devices is greatly appreciated

Sonnet Fusion F2
 

I just ordered on of these for the very same reasons. Takes power from the Firewire interface - is nice and fast in the field and is very portable.

http://www.sonnettech.com/product/fusionf2.html


Simon Cox

If you wanted to stay leaner, you could just dump to the DL DVD.

No matter what you do, you may want to think about an inverter for your car for the MBP, an external drive or the internal will chew up your battery quick.

Let me know if you need a 2nd cameraman to go on the shoot... It's cold up here in February. ;)

Simon thanks for the reply. The Sonnet F2 looks great but I need to keep my express slot open for SxS card transfer. That is why I was looking for a drive with FW800.

Andrew the inverter is a good tip. Stay warm, I am already the B-cam guy.

Found these in some quick internet searching:

OWC Mercury On-The-Go (http://eshop.macsales.com/shop/firewire/on-the-go)

You could also do something with Compact Flash or SD cards with a USB card reader. It'd be more expensive, but keeping it off spinning disks would offer more reliability. It's never good to see 80 or 160 GB worth of content take a dive when a hard drive fails.

I always copy original camera data onto a mirrored RAID. In case one drive fails, the other continues to operate normally.

Writing to DVD's is too slow and you're still risking data loss with only one copy, unless you make a duplicate which is twice as slow.

Here's what I was looking at: http://www.firewiredirect.com/product/501/

It'll allow you to use your Express 34 card slot. You'll need a Firewire 400 adapter to use it with this enclosure since it uses a Firewire 800 connector.

i am going for 2x250 GB 2,5" Lacie Drives (5400),
one for editing, one for backup. they are quiet cheap (about 175 Euros, each)

they connect via USB 2.0 or FW 400.

As the Data rate in FCP is 4,3 MB/s the speed should not be a problem.


further on I will have a 1 TB Disc (2x3,5", FW800) with me for another backup (in the hotel).

This configuration is for a shoot in Brazil next week (quiet warm there for the moment ;))

Charles I have two G-Drive mini 200GB and one G-Raid mini for on the road and they all work great. The Raid powers off the FW800 and the mini powers off the FW400. They are very small and come with great carry cases. Worth a look a few bucks more but the quality is excellent.

I do a similar thing ...
 

I use the portable hitachi 200 gig 7200 drive + 2/800,400, USB2 housing kit. Two of these or more would do what you need done!

I wouldn't trust any important data to lacie drives. They have a horrible failure rate. The G Tech mini or G Tech raid is the way to go, if you can find them right now. My dealer has not been able to get them in stock.

Daniel Weber

hitachi ...
 

The hitachi has been solid for the last 6 months!

I know. You are right Daniel. I think only Maxtor is supposed to be as bad.

Especially the Lacie Big Disk (500 MB) is crap. I had 3 of them and they all died.
The 2,5" (mobile) are supposed to be better. This is why I am doing a double backup. I guess the risk that all the 3 disks fail is minim.

As the timeframe is tight (I am taking the plane on Monday) I opt for this solution as I can find those disks here for a good deal (less than 175 E. each). Time will tell if those drives are better.

For archiving solutions I will opt for the best known drives (and have a 2nd backup at another place) but this is another story.

=====
"Especially the Lacie Big Disk (500 MB) is crap. I had 3 of them and they all died"
======


AGREE! Lacie is el crapola. I've had a few of them die on me.
I suspect it has more to do with the fact that they use WD hard drives

I have had very good luck with Seagate and Hitach - very stable and long lasting. I've haven't looked inside a G-TECH - but those have never given me any problems either.

Paul

After I picked up my EX1 I had 2 G Tech mini 250's on order, but they were backordered for a month.

I ended up getting 3 250's from Other World Computing for what I was going to pay for the G Tech drives.

I think that the key to this whole thing is redundant back ups done in the field.

Daniel Weber

LACIE is bad choice
 

Don't use LACIE drives for backup or anything... I wouldn't use MAXTOR either. Very unreliable brands

So far in this thread it's been decided that Lacie, maxtor and western digital hard drives are all suspect. Anyone notice the common denominator?...

They are hard drives and hard drives do fail, it's a fact of life. Especially removable drives as often they get disconnected before the heads are parked correctly, or they get picked up and moved while the platters are spinning.

I would back up to 2 drives or a drive and something else such as DL-DVD.

For my HVX work I like the OWC drives and it is the same set of issues. I researched the question of 5400RPM vs 7200 and the consensus was it makes no difference for downloading cards.
7200 is better when used as a source for media files in editing however for downloading keep in mind that it uses more bus power so if you are concerned about battery drain stick with the 5400's.
I got the 800/400/USB and like them. The only drives I consistently have heard people complain about is LaCie. Maybe that's because there are alot of them out there, but why take the chance. I'v hads good luck with OWC in general for years. i like them.
ALWAYS immediately make a backup of your download on a separate drive. Don't be blase ALWAYS.
Two separate copies.

Until there is a better option I am using G-Drive 500GB for one source and Delkin Archival Gold DVD's or Blu-Ray as the other so a double back up. Normal DVD's I have that are 5 years old have problems.

Does any one know the life expectancy of Blu-Ray disk?

I believe at least 50 years.

Thanks Brad that makes Archiving on Blu-Ray a real possibility when a fast burner comes out for the Mac.

I agree wholeheartedly with Alistair. Hard drives are just too delicate to be abused like often happens in the field.

In the past using P2, I've used a single hard drive and DVD for data dumps from P2. That was in studio though, and the drives were treated gingerly.

I like the idea of staying solid state for field work.

NewEgg sells Transcend 8GB 133x CF cards for $41 USD. 24 of those is enough for a full 8 hours of recording and runs you about $1000 USD. (I never shoot 8 hours a day... but I suppose some of you do.)

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16820208340

Newegg also offers 16GB transcend 133x CF cards for $77 USD. That should work well for the same workflow using 16GB SxS cards.

Transcend isn't the best brand, but if they work, they work. Even if you buy a couple of spares due to lack of confidence, they are much cheaper than the "trusted" brands. (Kingston is $99, Sandisk is $114- so you could buy twice as many CF cards and still come out ahead.)

Then I do my data dumps to HD back at "base" be that the hotel, the studio or the car. In field production I prefer to use two hard drives - unless I have staff to do the DVD backup.

I look forward to using SSD hard drives for data dumps in the near future. At current prices its a bit prohibitive. ($500 for a 'Super Talent' 32GB 2.5" SSD drive, $3200 for a 128GB version, again newegg.) You'd need 6 32GB drives to hold 8 hours of data. Maybe next year, almost certainly by 2010.

FWIW ive got a g-tech mini as my mobile editing solution for capture and quick edits, and then two spacious g-drive's with the combo solutions (FW 400, 800, e-sata). This was a pricey solution but it works rather well. One g-drive for working and capturing on, and the second for backing up files. The mini goes with me everywhere, has been used and abused for over a year now, and is rock solid. I highly recommend them- they are a bit more pricey but you ALWAYS get what you pay for. Just remember that hard drives can and WILL fail- and with the price of storage falling, there really is no excuse to not have multiple backups. Remember- organization is key in this business!

"Hard drives are just too delicate to be abused like often happens in the field."
Well 2.5 " hard drives are in every laptop in the world. The genera;lly hold up pretty well, but you do need to be careful. If you have the time to archive to DVD or LTO tape in the field great, but the portable drive method is what P2 people have generally been doing for 2 years.

2 of these bus powered drives:

http://eshop.macsales.com/item/Other...g/MS8U5250GB8/


One on FW800 bus , the other on USB2.0 bus. On a mac.

"You do need to be careful," is exactly my point. Too many brush that off. Too many others don't realize what that should entail.

Your point also assumes the disks are in a properly designed enclosure i.e a laptop.

Many laptops these days come with sensors that park the drive heads if the system experience a certain amount of acceleration. Most include at least some rudimentary shock mounting.

Even with all that the drives, and the systems they are in, still have to be handled with care.

A 2.5" drive in an enclosure doesn't have those features. 3.5" drives are more rugged... but that is entirely relative, because they aren't rugged at all.

The high rate of drive failures amongst video users is because we are, as part of our normal business, rough with equipment. Just take a look at most of your equipment.

In my side business as a computer tech most laptops I see have failed hard drives due to "abuse." Of course my clients think that they are just using the machines normally. For the most part they treat their laptops better than the average videographer/film maker treats laptops, and more importantly external drives, on set.

In fact, what I have observed is that hard drives used in the field for video are as likely to fail as drives used by the military or emergency services.

So, I stand by my original statement that hard drives are delicate, and I prefer to work with solid state. As soon as budgets permit I plan on shifting over to solid state for all my field recording.

I'd like to hear what you comne up with as no doubt Hard drives are not the solution for the reasons you mentioned.

I don't recall reading much about failures in P2 Stores, and they're hard drive based. My own P2 Store has been used on boats, on a bus, in my bag while I'm moving around and no failures or loss of data.

It does sense adverse motion and stops writing until the P2 Store senses it's safe to transfer data.

As for other drives, as long as you don't move them while they're operating you're OK. And before transporting them make sure they've spun down before disconnecting them. That way you know the heads are properly parked.

With parked heads drives such as the IBM/Hitachi SATA Deskstar drives can tolerate up to a 1 millisecond 300-G shock.

Still, be sure to pack them in antistatic bags with the appropriate foam padding and in a hard shell case.

I don't know if you are replying to me there, but what I use is solid state media.

Also, hard drives do work, its just that you can't rely on them in a lot of circumstances. I do use hard drives, but like I said I use them in "safe" locations. Bare drives in typical "cheap" enclosures need a good amount of care- so I only use them in the car- when it is parked or at a borrowed desk, or in my studio.

Dean's right. You don't read about failures in P2 Store. Two reasons. P2 Store is a properly designed enclosure, and like Dean, most of its users take appropriate care. Laptops can be handled much the same way and often provide enough storage.

I still wouldn't drag either of them into certain situations.

So back to my solution. I used flash cards. Compact flash usually, but I had a couple of SD cards.

I only needed 8 4GB cards which I used to back up 3 4GB P2's. That gave me ~110 minutes record time at 720p 24 with an HVX200. I "upgraded" the hard drive of a Powerbook G4 to a 8 GB IDE SSD drive.

I got the Powerbook for free (its in bad condition, but nothing that stops me from using it for this). Obviously you can use any old cheap laptop you have around, and I recommend using the cheapest one that will work.

Here is a link to the drive I used:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16820208064

All the computer has on it is a minimum install of OS X 10.3, the P2 drivers and a few utilities. If I had to do it again I'd get a 32GB drive. That was a few months ago though and prices were higher. (around August?)

P2 goes in one side, I use a USB 2 CF adapter on the other side.

That's pretty much that. It isn't elegant, but it works. Oh... and I pretty much don't care if it breaks because its cheap to replace.

i will try with something like this:

http://powerwarehouse.en.alibaba.com...nd_laptop.html


and you an use any drive then. since you will have everytime proper power level, there is no need for some extreme solutions. of course this is just a suggestion, try to find in your area - this one has connection via USB. i do not know how this one will work/react with MBP.


filip kovcin

SxS Card Question
 

So I pressed the button on the BH order and I'll have my cam at week's end!

One question. I think I know the answer to this, but just in case I'm wrong here goes: do you have to have the media manager on your computer to pull data off the sys cards?

So, for instance, if you're out in the field, you've shot your two 8gb cards, is it possible to just do a "Data Dump" onto a laptop (without Final Cut and media manager) and transfer this "raw data" later? Or do you have to use media manager to pull off footage?

In short, I've got a junker powerbook that I'd love to through in my pack and dump footage on to...but it doesn't have Final Cut 6 on it...any chance of using this somehow as a temporary holding pen for the footage?

Thanks in advance.

try this ...
 

controllable out-put.
http://www.tekkeon.com/site/products-mypowerall.php

Powerbook does not have Express slot so you'd need adaptor, go from camera USB, buy Sony's Express to USB reader (needs power).

Install SxS driver.
Sony XDCAM Transfer Tool runs on PPC (unlike Clip Browser) and can run as a separate app without FCP.

You can copy the BPAV folder from card into a named folder you created from finder.

You can use XDCAM Transfer Tool to convert to .mov (although you won't be able to see the video without the codec from FCP 6.0.2).

You can play the .mp4 files in VLC (or one might try to copy the codec from a machine with 6.0.2).

Craig forgot to type his first sentence. Here it is:

"Yes you can use the Powerbook, but there are a few things to consider."

Other than that his answer was spot on.

Thanks for the replies gents. In advance of the camera getting here, I'll upgrade my os on my powerbook as well as look into getting the USB card reader. That way, I can have the pbook working while I'm shooting. I have the 8gb card that came with the camera, an additional card bought as part of the B&H order and the 3rd from the rebate. So I should be good.

Thanks!

Should you not be using eSATA with a laptop (assuming you have poer source)? I nhave seen aneSATA RAID 0 config in one box looks a good choice.

Yes and No. Mostly No.

In most cases there is no advantage to using eSATA in mobile/field use with a laptop. Its true that an array of eSATA drives can get you some impressive performance, but there isn't much you can do on a laptop with that performance.

(Just a terminology note before I get going- firewire protocols have always been defined in relation to their data rate in megabits per second. (Mbps) So, S800 is 800Mbps, S100 is 100Mbps and so on.)

FW S800 is plenty fast for capture of fairly high end codecs like ProRes, DNxHD and Cineform. Right now, the only video applications whose requirements exceed Firewire's S800 bandwidth are uncompressed HD video, and 4:4:4 video.

None of that is relevant for the EX1 at any rate. The best you can get out of the EX1 is uncompressed HD SDI, and capturing ProRes seems to exceed the camera's capabilities in practice.

The other reason I wouldn't use eSATA for field work with a laptop is that I prefer to keep the card slot free for either SxS or P2 (depending on which camera I am using.)

One reason to use eSATA in the field is flexibility. If I am capturing using an AJA ioHD (as an example) then I need to keep the built in firewire bus free. That's when I plop in a Firewire or eSATA card for HD work. Notice that even in this case Firewire remains an option, but you need a card in any case.

I am pretty happy with fast drives in single device enclosures. I do buy eSATA, but its for flexibility, not performance. There is a nice line of Wiebetech enclosures that features USB2, Firewire S400, Firewire S800 and eSATA called Toughtech XE. I like those right now.

http://www.wiebetech.com/products/toughtech.php

Looking to the future, Firewire continues to be the right IT technology for video field use.

The 1394 Trade Association (1394 TA) has announced the coming availability of a few more versions of 1394b, which is the specification that includes Firewire S800.

S1600 devices should be available this spring. S3200 devices should be introduced late this year. S6400 devices should be available in 2009.

Not that when they say "devices" the 1394 TA means chipsets and stuff like that. I figure we'll get an S1600 card and drive encolsures from specialists this summer, and S3200 Macs will be announced by Macworld 2009. We'll probably get S3200 enclosures from specialists spring 2009.

They all use the same 9 pin connector as Firewire S800, called the "beta" connector.

Don't get me started on USB 3.