Ready to thow in the towel on Premiere... need Mac advice
 

Ok... so it is impossible to work in Premiere CS3 Pro... even with the Mainconcept Plugin (I'll be writing a full review on it later). The last mac I owned was 6 years ago (I have nothing against them).

I am seriously considering dropping another chunk of money on a Mac solution so that I can actually use my EX1. But need suggestions.

Is a laptop a realistic solution? Would a 15.4 in screen work, or should is the 17" a must? Never used FCP but REALLY want to.

Heck I was able to use the EX1 with FCP 6.0.2 on my G5 Mac.

A MacBookPro should do just fine. It'll probably work on 15" screen but more screen real estate is always better.

Don't know nuttin about Mac, but for PC you could always at least try the Trial version of Sony Vegas. Thats my main NLE and I love it with the EX1. If ya end up liking it should be a cheaper solution that a whole new computer and OS.

- Ray

It will work just fine on a MacBook Pro. I use it all the time. The only complaint I have about using my 15" with EX1 footage is that there isn't enough screen to see the whole of the 1920x1080 footage and so it must be scaled down to work with.

That's why I would always recommend a 30" screen for any serious work at full HD res.

If you are getting a MBP, be sure to max out the RAM (aftermarket, of course) and consider the biggest possible internal drive (a 500GB should be out soon - also aftermarket).

One advantage I can think of to the 17 inch is that it can be configured with a 1920x1200 screen, allowing it to play an EX1 clip back at full resolution (without doing anything else at the same time). Only a 30 inch monitor will actually play back a full-res clip while having anything else visible, but at least an MBP 17 (with the optional high-res screen) can preview a clip or play back the finished project. The 15 inch is just as powerful as the 17 - the clock speeds are the same (although you can get a slower 15 inch to save money), and both RAM capacity and hard drive space are identical, so a 15 inch with an external monitor (preferably 30 inch) is another viable option... The 17 inch is probably not worth it unless you buy the upgraded screen (Apple, won't you please release a high res 15 inch MBP???)...

-Dan

Download Edius 4.6 - free 1 month fully functional - you'll be shocked at its realtime and multi format abilities.

CS3 won't even play an ex1 clip on my fast laptop - Edius realtime 1920x1080.


Paul

What's the actual problem in premier?

the native format is long gop which is really not ideal for editing, im not sure what the plug in you mention is but i use cineform prospect HD.

Transcode the EX files into cineform format (and you get a nice 10bit format if you're planning multigenerational work) and edit away.

I would imagine you'd have the same issues on FCP, when the program needs to go to frame X it has to find the first full frame Y and then step forward through the I frames until it can form the entire frame X.

I don't work for cineform, just use their software

Edit: I've just read your other thread. Seriously try a cineform demo. it just works as you expect.

cheers
paul

I would concur. They do have excellent support for XDCAM - EX as evidenced by positive posts on the canopus-edius forum.

Thanks for all the feedback guys.

I have wanted to go to FCP for a long time. Just always thought of it as the more 'professional' NLE.... but know full well I could hammer out a feature on PPro CS3 just the same and no one would know.

I would LOVE to stick with Adobe... I just know the software really well. I will try Vegas, even if I dont decided to stick with it permantly, it gives adobe another month to keep a customer.

I'll also check out Edius.. this is the first I have heard of this NLE.

I think I posted that comment in the heat of the moment. It's just majorly frustrating having the blue screen of death pop up randomly. :/

You can't go wrong with a Mac. I jump ship from Canopus and Adobe Premiere about 2 years ago. Since then I've bought a Mac Pro and a MacBook Pro and would not look back.
FCP Studio 2 is really powerful and the current version of FCP works with EX1 footage seamlessly.
I just installed another 4GB into my MacPro tower with a total of 6GB now.. and I can flawlessly play 10 layers of 1920x1080 24p stacked up.

Go for the Mac.

Nope, you don't have that problem with FCP. Editing XDCAM EX in FCP feels like you are editing super high resolution DV video... and that's with no transcoding of any kind. It's wonderful.

Maybe you're running on a faster machine than Nick and perhaps FCP is written better. Eitherway under the hood the software is still jumping around in the file.

But rather than put down what i imagine is a lot of cash to change systems i think nick can quickly get up and running trying cineform.

I love macs, I agonise about going back to mac all the time (i have a 128k mac somewhere around here) but i really can't swap everything over, especially as i have no problems.

cheers
paul

I have a very modest system. 2.16 GHz Intel Core 2 Duo white iMac. Firewire 400 hard drive for media and 3 GB RAM (max allowed). So you don't need a smoking hot system to get great results with XDCAM and FCP. The iMac also supports an additional DVI monitor at 1920X1080 res for monitoring.

Save yourself a lot of heart-ache, install Edius Pro (Broadcast version). This runs under Windows XP (via Bootcamp on a Mac) and is very much better in real-time and rendering performance than FCP; it is also a very stable program.

I have Edius installed on both a Windows laptop and a MacPro on which I edit EX1 footage. You will need the Brodcast version of Edius Pro to edit EX1 footage, but as mentioned earlier, you can download a trial version that will allow you to edit HDV and this will give you a taste of its relative performance. Unlike FCP which only provides a basic Brightness/Contrast adjustment, Edius provides a proper curves function similar to that found in Photoshop, a far more elegent method of adjusting the image. I have compared this program with Adobe Premiere, Vegas 8 and FCP and it far out-performs all of them in - typically up to 12 times or more faster than FCP when rendering; try it yourself!

Good luck,

Geoff

And thou shalt try Colorista and you will be enlightened.

Geoff, I found Edius to run very smoothly even with effects on. The reason i wouldnt use it yet (and this is just what ive heard, i could be wrong) is because you need to buy special hardware to monitor HD footage from the timeline, there is a lack of third party plug ins and no 1920x1080 settings for full ex1 footage. Like i said i may be wrong, but thats what i've heard.

I'm going to jump in here as I'm looking to buy a MacBook Pro and wondering if I should get the glossy screen? I'm going 17" 2.6 with 200GB 7200RPM drive.

BTW, on the Premiere side of things (back to the thread topic), have you tried Cineform?

I use Prospect HD with Premiere Pro CS3 and my EX1 footage and it works great. I haven't edited anything more than a 3 minute short film, but it works well for me.

I can confirm that with Edius you will not be able to to get real-time HD Playback to an external monitor from the timeline on any laptop. To get real-time playback from Edius you will need the Edius NX hardware and this may only be fitted in a desktop machine, either a PC or a current MacPro running Window under Bootcamp. As far as I know, no other editing program will allow you to directly playback in realtime from the time-line on any laptop without external hardware. The AJA Io HD is a suitable interface for FCP/MBP systems, but it costs over £2000 and you still don't get the realtime performance and rendering speeds that you will with Edius.

Edius supports full 1920 x 1080p editing, but at the moment the Edius hardware outputs 1920 x 1080i from an 1920 x 1080p timeline.

When it is necessary to edit EX footage using my laptop I download the video files to the laptop, either onto its second internal HD or, usually, to an external HD, edit as necessary and then transfer to the MacPro for any special FX treatment at a later stage. Normally I don't indulge myself in that many FX and Edius has enough for my style of production. Running Edius on the MacPro is a joy and with the Edius NX cards installed I get excellent real-time HD from the timeline!

I'm trying to be unbiased in comparing the two systems and I use both Edius and FCP software. Both programs have their strengths and weaknesses, and certainly FCP has some features that are presently missing in Edius, but its software coding is much less efficient than that of Edius and I cannot see it surviving many more updates in its present incarnation.

Cheers

Geoff

And after you tweak with Colorista.... then fine tune with LOOKS.... :-)

Cineform and CS3 rules... at least for PC, it isn't cheap but you pay for
quality and ease of use.... try it, but be warned, you'll like it.

I've moved over to the mac for my editing here in the past few months. Mainly bc thats all they use where I've been contracting. I've made the switch now from Premiere though. The workflow just in many cases forces you to be more careful in FCP which is a good thing. EX1 footage works fantastic in it as well, native or in Prores. I have Prospect/Premiere as well and run it off a 64bit Vista system that's pretty stacked due to all the 3D I do - lots of RAM but I still have a lot of lag - too much for editing. I love it as an intermediate and its great for pushing between the mac and PC but the lag when using JKL is too long for me and the skipping audio I get.

I can do this in Vegas with my HDMI output as secondary monitor from my laptop with no problem, It's realtime, and unless I do a bunch of FX full frame rate playback isn't a problem either. That's not HDSDI, but HDMI is not a far cry from it and is certainly an acceptable means of viewing footage for work with Color Correction etc...

Just FYI.

Dave

How do you check for field order errors using HDMI and I assume LCD or Plasma displays?

I switched from PC to Mac last year and have never looked back. I have a rock solid, stable edit system (FCP) that I can use on my Macbook or MacPro. It works with just about any type of video I have come across. Has excellent low cost hardware support from AJA and BMD giving every flavour of I/O option. I can work native with all the major formats in realtime with multiple layers of effects. In addition I have stunning grading tools (color) plus easy to use graphics tools (motion, livetype). I don't have any issues trying to make this plugin work with that driver, just install and go.

Got to agree with you -- Edius is a great NLE for either pc or mac hardware that won't require a steep learning curve. (Unlike Vegas which uses an audio editing gui.)

But, CineForm will let you get the best out of Premiere because it not only is a new codec is gives Premiere a whole new -- and much need -- rendering engine.

I think Cineform, also has a demo. It makes Premiere fly.

I must be hallucinating...will a week from tomorrow be soon enough?

http://digitalcontentproducer.com/de...th/nab_update/

Adobe fumbled big time (I blame it in part on the Mac port) in regards to codec issues. Sony struck back at Panasonic with the EX1. Let's hope Adobe learned something and gives PPro users something to smile about.

Bill

http://treehousemedia.net

Wow Bill,

Thanks for the link! That would be excellent. EX1 MXF in Premiere and After Effects.

Very nice

mmmm, yum, just what AE needed - .mxf support for Sony Cameras - umm, mp4 drag and drop from EX1 clip browser files perhaps? I doubt it... but..


Paul

That is the way it works (mp4 drag and drop) in Edius Broadcast 4.6 - in fact clip browser opens up from within the program (has a preset for "open xdcam-ex clip browser from within the capture menu.)

Dave,

I have a high regard for Vegas and in my opinion it is a much under-rated program; I often use it for editing the audio content after editing the video with Edius. However I'm not sure that what you are getting out of the HDMI connector is anything more than an overlay without the true video colour-space that one would get using dedicated hardware such as the MXO or Io HD in conjunction with FCP. If I'm wrong, then please tell me. I should add that I have had both Vegas and Edius on my laptop and also use FCP on my workstation, but even so, I still maintain that I get the best rendering and real time performance with Edius.


Geoff