ex3, Letus Utimate and Convergent Flash XDR
 

Hi,
For shooting a lowbudget movie beginning of next year, we need two cameras.
The result should be transferred to a 2K filmprint and a hd video master.

We are thinking about the following setup:

Sony EX3
with the the Letus Ultimate Adapter (using rented zeiss prime lenses)
and recording on the new convergent design flash xdr box (10 bit 4:2:2 160mbit/sec via HD-SDI)

Any opinions?
Will this be the best bang for the bug?
Thanks for any comment.
Holger

Hello Holger,

Yes, in my opinion, that looks like the best way to go.

Alles zer gut.

By the way, the phrase in english is "best bang for the buck"! (buck as in dollar)

Just thought I would point that out but am sure your English is way better than my German!

Oh, yes you´re right "bang for the buck",

I think I was just remembering the hardcore adult xxx version of "bug´s life".

Sorry for that, I tend to get more easily distracted since I´m dealing with HD formats and compressions.

Argh.

Holger

Just remember the video is 8 bit. Sure the HD-SDI out is 10 bit but the Flash XDR unit uses mpeg2 and mpeg2 can only ever be 8 bit. This is not a bad thing of course, I just wanted to point this out in case you didn't know. I totally love the XDR unit and 160 mbit I frame mpeg2 files are really awesome and totally beat the pants off any 8 bit HD tape format excluding HDCAM SR but then again that isn't an 8 bit tape format and is a special case.

As we all do.

Please don't apologize. I have great respect for your ability to use an English speaking forum.

Thomas,

Converget Desing are promising to upgrade their Flash XDR to true 10bit 4:2:2 - how does it hold against your claim that mpeg2 HAS to be limited to just 8bits?

Just asking :)

I believe the XDR will be upgraded to do uncompressed, which will capture the full 10-bit output.

George/

Ah, of course - silly me; being uncompressed, it doesn't need to be mpeg2-compliant any more :)

I'm not sure how they will do uncompressed, but if I recall correctly it needs the CF cards in RAID config and you'll need to read them from the XDR to offload.

If correct you'll need a good number of cards (they'll fill up quickly) and you can't re-use them before you've had time to offload then via the XDR (or a second unit maybe).

The 50/100Mb and maybe 160Mb I-Frame can be used without RAID and can be read by any CF card reader as I understand it to date.

George/

P.S. Convergent Design will share a stand at IBC in Amsterdam this september, Come One, Come All ;-)

Hi George-
Just to confirm, your understanding is 100% correct. In uncompressed 4:2:2 8/10-bit mode, we stripe the data across all four cards. So you'll need a handful of cards as they fill up quickly at this data-rate (about 1Gbps).

For almost all applications, the 100 Mbps Long-GOP or the 160 Mbps I-Frame only will be a more reasonable choice, with very little difference in overall quality. Of course there are some applications were uncompressed is an absolute requirement.

Looking forward to IBC where we will feature both the XDR and the upcoming nanoFlash.

Hi Mike,

I was hoping for them being available before September!

another possibility ...
 

I'm like the rest of you stumbling around trying to find a way to get that 4.2.2 out of the EX3.
The other obvious route is the Elite HD w/ swappable 2.5 SATA drives w/ 10 bit quantization. At this time, the max 2.5 drives running at 7200 are 320 I believe, so, this is one method that has a future. I don't like the $6,000 price tag on this unit and of course it hasn't been tested yet for all the flaws that will come to light (heat being a major one) but 4.2.2 10 bit is looking to be the goal on all these units.

Hi Piotr-
Sorry for the confusion, we plan to start shipments of Flash XDR this month and the nanoFlash by 1-Sep.

Nice idea for a set up. Which CF cards will you go for? And how many dozens!

Also, this same set up would seem to conform to most HD broadcast requirements too.

I think 4 sandisk 8 GB IV Cards are 25 minutes with 4:2:2 160 mbit/s which equals roundabout 400 Euro per half an hour

or, if you are going for 100 mbit

4 sandisk 16GB extreme III cards are 85 minutes with 4:2:2 100mbit/s which equals 360 Euro per one and a half hours.

Sounds pretty good to me.

Mike,

Sorry for moving this discussion from the more appropriate threads for a while, but with Flash XDR shipping this month, I need to know the full specs of the nano Flash, and see some XDR-encoded video samples at 50 and 100 Mbps 4:2:2!

Otherwise, I won't be able to make up my mind between the two... Also, please share some details on the EX1 mounting/connecting options for both products!

Not only that...
 

...I also note that one can daisy chain flash card readers (like Lexar's FW800) reader together and simultaneously download mxf files like a solid state deck.

http://www.lexar.com/readers/pro_udma_reader.html

This looks like a very neat solution. Just need FCP to get up to date with the 50mbps (Sony 422) and 100mbps ingest now.

Presumably you will wait for the software update and go for uncompressed or I-frame at 10 bit?

Jus.

Hi Piotr-
Take a look at the nanoFlash details post in under "Tapeless Recording Solutions" (in this forum) for all the details on the nanoFlash.

We just received some of the hardware this morning for using the Flash XDR with the EX1. Let me get a photo and I'll post it on the website this week.

We just about have the capture and playback to the MXF file format working. I have stressed to our engineers the need to post 50/100/160 Mbps footage ASAP. Once we get the MXF format finished, it will be relatively simply to port to other file formats.

Thanks Mike - have somehow missed that new thread. Do you know the estimated Euro price for nanoFlash yet?

Hi Holger-
Just a quick note of clarification. The SanDisk Extreme III cards don't have sufficient performance for 160 Mbps data rates. We are currently recommending the Transcend CF cards. So, here's the revised numbers:

160Mbps 4:2:2 8-Bit I-Frame
Use the Transcend 300X 16 GB Card (US $240) for about 13 minutes per card or 51 minutes for four cards (total of US $960 for 51 minutes). Note that this rate is clearly above HD-CAM quality.

100 Mbps 4:2:2 8-Bit Long-GOP
Use the Transcend 133X 32 GB Card (US $150) for about 40 minutes per card or 160 minutes for four cards (total of US $600 for 160 minutes).

Note that MPEG2 is 8-bit, not 10-bit. We will have an uncompressed 8/10 bit 4:2:2 option coming this fall. You will need four of the 300x 16GB Transcend cards for about 7 minutes of total record time (data stripped across 4 cards).

Please visit our forum under "Tapeless Recording Solutions" for more info.

Hi Piotr-
Not yet, I'll try to contact our EU distributor this week.