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-   -   SDHC substitute for SxS cards (https://www.dvinfo.net/forum/sony-xdcam-ex-pro-handhelds/130757-sdhc-substitute-sxs-cards.html)

Joe Busch March 24th, 2009 10:30 PM

Newegg.com - FileMate 3FMS4U64M-WR 64GB ExpressCard 34 with Mini USB 2.0 External Solid state disk (SSD) - Solid State Disks

Anyone tried one of these yet? $165... 64GB... 30MB/s read/writes (which should be plenty)

I'm looking to move to the EX3... but paying the ridiculous prices for SxS cards was deterring me (Mainly because I shoot 4-6 hours a day and need to do it all in one shoot)

Another random question, can you record to both slots at the same time? I'm just starting my research on the camera (probably won't buy it for a year or so, and by then something better might come out? heh) but that's a big deal... I don't trust SDHC cards much at all... I'd rather be recording to two at the same time and have a backup if needed... what I shoot can't be re-shot.

Vincent Oliver March 25th, 2009 12:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joe Busch (Post 1033063)
Newegg.com - FileMate 3FMS4U64M-WR 64GB ExpressCard 34 with Mini USB 2.0 External Solid state disk (SSD) - Solid State Disks

I don't trust SDHC cards much at all... I'd rather be recording to two at the same time and have a backup if needed... what I shoot can't be re-shot.

I have been using Transcend 16gb SDHC cards in a Kensington holder and have never lost anything, - touch wood. But have lost footage on at least four jobs using DV tape

Joe Busch March 25th, 2009 01:41 AM

Hehe, well I've never had a tape go bad, I've had dropouts ofcourse...

But It's nice having an instant archivable backup...

I did have about 700GB of raw footage on my server when the RAID array corrupted and I lost all that, but I was able to retrieve all of it with my tapes.

Then again, I could have a real backup solution in-place instead ;)

Either way, it seems like that 64GB SSD is a decent deal... if it works...

Derek Reich March 25th, 2009 08:07 AM

I had a minor failure on a SDHC card recently (I posted about this but it was kind of buried in another post) which left me somewhat concerned about using the adpaters, but given the amount I have shot with SDHC cards without failure, it's still an excellent ratio. Certainly better than tape! I'm not certain what caused the problem, or really whether the issue was the SDHC card, Clip Browser, or File Transfer. The clip recorded fine, showed up fine in Clip Browser, (played back just fine) but that one clip would not transfer with File Transfer.... it just wasn't recognized. Everything else on the card was fine. Still can't figure that one out....

But here's my concern about using larger capacity cards. I'd be nervous about putting that much footage in one place. I'd much rather have lots of 16GB cards (the perfect size for me) than fewer 32GB or 64GB cards because if you DO have a failure, you lose so much more material. That's a risk I'm just not comfortable taking yet.

That said, when a Sony rep told me a few months ago that they had developed a 1TB Memory Stick, all I could think of was how great something like that would be to archive with? I would trust solid state memory over a hard drive any day.

Craig Seeman March 25th, 2009 08:18 AM

Given the posts I see on all the forums, I think there's a much greater chance of human error transferring a card during a shoot than the card having a technical issue.

Some people may even blame the card when actually the human pulled it out while the light was still red (which may be the case after one stops recording) or copies without using CRC in ClipBrowser.

With two Sandisk 32GB cards, I don't have to touch a thing during most shoots.

Dave Morrison March 25th, 2009 08:20 AM

Derek,

Can you give the details (again) about which adapter you were using along with the specific SDHC card you used?

Derek Reich March 25th, 2009 08:47 AM

Sure. I was using a MxR adapter, with a Transcend 16GB class 6 card.

Everything seemed to go normally with the shoot, we were doing several on-cameras with talent. Later that evening, I went to download all the cards to two separate LaCie Rugged drives (one for backup) which I then deliver to the client. Everything downloaded perfectly using Clip Browser (version 2, CRC enabled). I then decided to look at some of the takes in File Transfer (because it's a better interface for viewing) and when I tried to bring that particular BPAV folder into File Transfer, it would display a dialog box saying something about that one clip was not recognized. There was no thumbnail image for it in File Transfer either. (I can't remember the exact wording, but I still have that card and can replicate it again). I tried several times to import the files into File Transfer from both drives, and got the same result every time with that one clip. I then tried a third drive, (another LaCie rugged, this time a 7200rpm field edit drive) and tried to import it into FCP, but no go.

The weird thing is the clip played perfectly in Clip Browser. The good thing was that it wasn't a 'good' take, so no big deal.... but it sure could have been a keeper, in which case I would have had some explaining to do.

Anyone have any ideas? I'll try to replicate it today before I erase that card, so I can get the exact wording of the dialog box....

Craig Seeman March 25th, 2009 09:37 AM

Please post the error message.
Maybe there's a bug in XDCAM Transfer (what version?).
Current version is 2.9.

Derek Reich March 25th, 2009 11:13 AM

2 Attachment(s)
Here are the error messages I got when trying to import that one clip. I believe I have the latest version of XDCam File Transfer, but I'll double-check.
I got these errors directly from the card, so that rules out Clip Browser..... the problem must be either something weird happened with that single clip, or with File Transfer.

Craig Seeman March 25th, 2009 11:33 AM

I would NOT use XDCAM Transfer directly on the cards. If the file is damaged you've damaged your master. Copy to hard drive FIRST with ClipBrowser.

If you aren't backing up those BPAV you're walking into an accident waiting to happen . . . or maybe it has already for you.

I'm seeing an issue to XDCAM Transfer 2.9 in which it takes a while for the image to appear and be playable. It's as if there's a slow import/thumbnail buffer. If I wait a short bit it'll eventually work.

Patrick Williams March 25th, 2009 11:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Derek Reich (Post 1033271)
Sure. I was using a MxR adapter, with a Transcend 16GB class 6 card.

Everything seemed to go normally with the shoot, we were doing several on-cameras with talent. Later that evening, I went to download all the cards to two separate LaCie Rugged drives (one for backup) which I then deliver to the client. Everything downloaded perfectly using Clip Browser (version 2, CRC enabled). I then decided to look at some of the takes in File Transfer (because it's a better interface for viewing) and when I tried to bring that particular BPAV folder into File Transfer, it would display a dialog box saying something about that one clip was not recognized. There was no thumbnail image for it in File Transfer either. (I can't remember the exact wording, but I still have that card and can replicate it again). I tried several times to import the files into File Transfer from both drives, and got the same result every time with that one clip. I then tried a third drive, (another LaCie rugged, this time a 7200rpm field edit drive) and tried to import it into FCP, but no go.

The weird thing is the clip played perfectly in Clip Browser. The good thing was that it wasn't a 'good' take, so no big deal.... but it sure could have been a keeper, in which case I would have had some explaining to do.

Anyone have any ideas? I'll try to replicate it today before I erase that card, so I can get the exact wording of the dialog box....

Derek,
Did you ever try to copy the bad clip to another card in the other slot? Perhaps that would make it a new clip with it's own BPAV folder.

Ed Kukla March 25th, 2009 05:31 PM

sandisk ultra from amazon
 
the prices on amazon are quite wide ranging for the Sandisk Ultra II SDHC.

I've heard of counterfit SDHC cards. How reliable is an Amazon SDHC card vendor at bargain prices? Aren't they screened pretty well by Amazon?

Also, what is the practical difference between the Ultra II and Extreme III for use in my EX-3? The III is a lot more expensive.

Thanks

Derek Reich March 25th, 2009 07:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Patrick Williams (Post 1033358)
Derek,
Did you ever try to copy the bad clip to another card in the other slot? Perhaps that would make it a new clip with it's own BPAV folder.

I did not try that..... good idea. I'll give that a try and see what happens. How exactly do I do that?

Patrick Williams March 25th, 2009 09:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Derek Reich (Post 1033622)
I did not try that..... good idea. I'll give that a try and see what happens. How exactly do I do that?

Derek,
Turn the camera on in Media mode(not camera). Look to see if you see all of the thumbnails displayed on the lcd screen. Select the "bad" clip and click on it using the joystick or the thumbwheel. One of the menu options that will pop up will be "copy clip."
Select that option and then it will give you a larger window that says "copy clip A>B" (actually it says A arrow B, but I don't have an arrow on my keyboard). Push execute and you're done. Of course you need to have a card in the B slot before you do this. Then try clip browser with the new clip.

Andrew Stone March 26th, 2009 12:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ed Kukla (Post 1033577)
I've heard of counterfit SDHC cards. How reliable is an Amazon SDHC card vendor at bargain prices?

I have bought these cards at cheap prices from Amazon Marketplace and eBay. They have all worked fine.

I look carefully at the customer approval ratings and comments and buy accordingly.


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