Shotgun mic choices for EX-1
 

After months of investigating and a rental test-drive, I ordered an EX-1 recently. The only matter to attend to is audio. I'm all set with wireless lavs and such but need to select an on-camera shotgun. Nothing extravagant, under a kilo buck including any shock mount and wind protection. I'm looking for good quality sound, not top-of the line gear that a pro audio engineer would buy.

My dealer suggeseted the Senn ME 66 but a search of threads didn't turn up much about this particular combination. I did find, in 2007, some were having issues with certain mics and the EX-1.

What are you using/what can you reccomend? Please also discuss shock mount and wind protection.

Thank you
Bob

The ME66 is a popular choice. Not to expensive, not cheap. It's a good all around shotgun that you'll be happy with for many years. The only reason to go with a more expensive one would be if you were shooting nature sound effects or something.

You could probably by something cheaper (Rode?) if you're on a budget, but the ME66 is a proven choice. Don't forget a wind sock. (fuzzy) You might check out the K-Tek website for solutions.

K-Tek Products

I'm not very experienced in the world of audio (so you may want to double check any info I give) but I think I'll go ahead and throw in a few ideas on this one.

Will you be shooting mainly outdoors or indoors? If you will generally be outdoors, I know that DVeStore.com can get you the Rode NTG-3 for $600 the the dvinfo coupon.

http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/great-dea...ff-coupon.html

Add wind protection (under $120) and a shockmount ($50) and that will get you everything shipped for close to $800.

If you won't be outdoors as much, my understanding is that the ME66 with the k6 powering module is kinda cool because if you find that later that you need a more directional mic (perhaps for outdoor use), you can get a hold of just the ME 67 for about $300 and attach it to the k6 powering module that you bought with the ME66 and it is a relatively inexpensive solution.

I used a four-step approach for my EX3. If I had it to do over again, this time on an EX1, I'd make the same choices...

1. DM-Accessories - EX1-FLAT - Shoe Mount for Sony EX1 & EX3 Camcorders - this prevents the weak mic mount from snapping off. Just remove it and replace it with this awesome adapter.

2. K-Tek | Camera Shoemounting Shockmount | K-CAM-SSM | B&H Photo - It's a great fit for the camera. A quick twist of the thumb and it slides out for packing in a bag. The rubber doesn't sag and is a great fit for the mic I chose.

3. Rode | NTG-1 Shotgun Microphone | NTG-1 | B&H Photo Video I selected this because of it's performance levels, comparisons with other similarly-priced and more expensive mics, and because it doesn't include phantom power. The EX cams provide it (24V+) so why bother sticking it on the mic as well?

4. Rycote | 14cm Medium Hole, Short Hair Softie | 034342 | B&H I have found this to be a good balance for an on-camera wind screen. Higher wind may require a more aggressive solution - maybe a wind jammer or something.

This comes to $435 plus shipping! (you'll probably want a 90 degree short mic cable as well). Maybe add a boom pole for certain situations?

Don't forget headphones for monitoring - I recommend the Sony MDR-7506 http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produc...Headphone.html

Hope this helps!

Thanks. I like that add for the replacement shoe mount "A #1 Philips screwdriver in good condition is needed to remove the original and install the replacement." They must have seen my collection of screwdrivers!

Do you prefer having the mic on a shoemount or did you choose that because the Sony mic mount broke?

I noticed that the mic mount was missing from 2 models on display at my dealer. I wasn't sure if they broke off or were removed for some other purpose.

Bob

That store isn't giving forum members a $100 discount. They jacked up the price $100.

See ZZOUNDS who sells it for $599 with free shipping as opposed to that store that sells it for $699 plus shipping and then gives a fake $100 discount coupon to forum members.

Rode NTG3 Shotgun from zZounds.com!

Put it in the cart and it is $599.95 with free ground shipping.

John

I took a Rode NTG3 and their new very reasonably priced blimp to the Himalayas recently. Both worked flawlessly in very windy and cold conditions, can't recommend them enough. We used the blimp with a 5m cable and due to camera noise when cold avoided on camera use. If using this mic attached to the camera mount it on camera with a spacer suspension mount otherwise the dead cat will intrude into the frame at wide angle.

How does the shock mount work with the mount that is already on the camera?
Do I remove the sony mount to add the aftermarked shock mount?

Note: I'm asking about a regular shock mount not the cold-shoe replacement mentioned in the previous post.

What shock mount? My camera didn't come with one...

I'm speaking of the mic mount on the right side of the camera, mounted directly about the XLR inputs. That is a mic mount....right?

My question is how does a shock mount work with that existing mic holder.

Oh,

That's a mic holder, not a shock mount. You don't use that with a shock mount.

Right. That's my question. Do you remove that and attach a shock mount, or just use the original holder and forgo a shockmount?

This DVinfo thread is worth reading. There are also links to other articles & reviews that are extremely valuable if you are in the market for a shotgun or a short-shotgun/hyper-cardioid.

EDIT:

Found something else that I read a while back. It's an in depth comparison of the ME 66 and the Sennheiser MK416 and again it is on DVinfo but it is an article. It has sound clips and some good hands on based analysis. You get to hear the ME 66 against a real solid but more expensive Sennheiser. Worth checking out.

For those who are interested, the picture below is what I use for a shock mount and it does use the EX standard microphone mount:

http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/attachmen...-wa-lens01.jpg


- Don

I can see that mic dangling by its XLR lead very soon.

Sanken CS-1 here. Mainly because I picked it up unused 2nd hand at a good price. It's a very short mic that needs a special K-Tek mount and Rycote dead cat but I know I'll never get fur in shot. Whole thing mounts onto the EX Flat for easy removal and storage of the camera.

One of my questions seems to have faded away:

Please explain how the mic mounts onto the EX-1. Do I use the existing mount on the camera or use an after-market shock mount and, if so, how does the shock mount attach to the camera's mic holder.

The pix I see on B&H for example lend no clue as to how they shock mount attaches to the camera. They look like they are for boom pole mounting.

Thank you. I'm leaning toward the Rode NTG 1 based on size (don't want it intruding on image) and economical price. By all accounts in other threads the sound quality is very good.

Shoe mount on top of camera.

Thanks. What if you use the shoe mount, already, for light?

I guess what I'm also asking is: what's the purpose of the Sony mic holder, why not just put the mic in there without the shock mount? Will the shock mount make a difference?

The purpose of the mic holder, is to hold a mic. The number of broken ones should alert you to how well they work for that. I have used it without breaking it. But I use my camera on a tripod most often.

Will the shock mount make a difference? Well, to those of us who shell out $50, $100, $200 for them, I'd say we believe they do. Ground and floors move and shake. And it's really nice to be able to isolate that from the mic. Cameras move a LOT and create a lot of noise, and it's really nice to be able to separate the mic from that also.

But the truth of the matter is this. If you are recording with your mic on the camera, most likely, it won't matter that much to you. If you're shooting with an on-camera light, then a mic in the mic-mount probably won't matter.

Sennheiser | MZQ200 - Stand Adapter | MZQ200 | B&H Photo Video

I use that.

the mic holder holds that in place, so I am able to pull the shotgun off for interviews and such. it doesnt provide the shock mount ability, but I need quick access to my mic, and the shock mounts seem a little cumbersome in that sense.

I concur with many that the Sony provide mic holder is prone to breaking. It is designed to break away and thus protect the camera/mic. However, I feel that they have over-engineered it's ability to break away - two thin strips of 1/8" plastic are all that hold it in place.

I decided not to risk mine, and therefore removed it entirely and replaced it with the cold shoe adapter from DM Accessories

Then, I purchased a shock mount designed to mount to a cold shoe.

This is a great page for mic samples:

DVeStore’s Shotgun Shootout at DVcreators.net

Audio Technia AT835ST - A Bust!!!
 

I purchased the AT 835ST Stereo Shotgun mic based upon a recommendation in these forums and indeed it also had a very good review on the B&H site. Sadly, I've tried on three different shoots and results are disappointing to say the least, if not horrible. I've tried every conceivable setting on the mic and with my EX3 sensitivity. It is expensive and ineffective, there is just no more to say. Sorry for the rant!

I've returned to using my trusty Sennheiser K6 series mics and wish I had spent a little more for their stereo shotgun.

In writing this, I now realize that I need to formally approach AT and seek their comments/support if any. They manufacturer in the US so perhaps they will be willing to offer some workable solutions and tangible support??

Thanks Perrone. I did a poor job of articulating my specific needs and understanding. I understand completely the function of shock mounts particularly on a boom pole; just didn't understand the connection to the camera.

Yes, my intent for this particular post was to mount the mic onto the camera for portable shots when the camera is not on a set of stix. ENG -style, if you will. I do a fair amount of moving around where having the mic on a boom is impractical as a single operator. But if I were on a tripod (and not holding the cam) I'd boom.

I'd appreciate pix of your camera-mounted shock mounts if you have them so I can get an idea of what this will look like.

Thank you one and all!

Done.

I don't have one with the mic on he EX1, but here is my shockmount on my DVX (pardon the dust!)

** Note the empty mic holder on the DXV. Also note that the bands are set up wrong on the shockmount so don't do what you see here. I hadnt used the thing in ages and set it up in a hurry.

It's useful even on a camera because camera handling noise easily transmits to the mic through the body of the camera if there wasn't a shock mount. Pressing buttons, moving the sliders, opening / closing the card door, maybe even adjusting the lens dials might be audible. Some of those sounds still transmit with a shock mount, but it's a lot less noticeable, and some of that remainder might just be through the air, though a shotgun's pickup pattern usually isolates from that.

Thank you!

I'm always impressed by how helpful DVinfo members are. You've given me things to think about. I assumed that mounting the mic would be a compact operation: just shove it in the holder, but I need to re-think that for best quality.

I ended up in the same situation as yourself many months ago. I bought an Audio Technica AT4073A mic for my EX1. I never could get it to work properly. Lots of crackling noises when touching the XLR cable, very narrow recording latitude. In order for it to work at all I had to keep the low freq. cut off switch on the mic activated all the time. Sony's official response was that there were grounding issues with this mic. My dealer wouldn't take the mic back because they said there was nothing wrong with it.

Eventually, because of other issues, Sony gave me a replacement EX1 several months ago but the problems with the AT4073A mic. remained. Recently I sent my EX1 in for the firmware upgrade to v.1.11. Well guess what? The grounding issue with the AT4073A had disappeared. What the.....? I had heard that the latest firmware update had some audio fixes in it but this might be a bit of a bonus. For me and now quite possibly for you, Barry.

As for keeping my post "on-topic" one of the worst offenders of camera noise being recorded is the zoom motor. Without some sort of mic isolation system you're most likely going to hear it in the audio track. As others have stated, anytime you touch or adjust the camera you're going to get that sound transmitted to the mic. A proper mic isolation system shouldn't be something that "you'll think about and maybe get some day." If you want great audio from your mic get a proper mount now.

Thanks Don, I do have a latitude issue and a very short pickup distance which makes no sense for a shotgun mic. With the Camera's sensitivity set of -53, the mic has to be close to the talent so that it does not pick up ambient side noises. It is a stereo shotgun mic with a switch for setting to a narrow stereo polar, yet it picks up the side ambient audio over the talent 10 feet in front of the mic. I am on an EX3, so far I have no crackling noises or grounding issues as you initially experienced on your EX1.

I use the Lightwave shock mount which is very effective. No camera motor noise or pickup from my hand on the lens for manual focus. The Lightwave mounts directly in place of the EX3 factory mic holder and so maintains a low profile for the shotgun.

Hi Barry,

Sorry to hear your having issues with your Audio Technica mic. I've never used the one you've got so I have no suggestions on how to get more side rejection from it. I've always been quite impressed with the side rejection capabilities of my AT4073A. I never knew how good a directional shotgun could be until I got this one. When mounted on my EX I'm able to pull clean dialogue from 3 meters in front of the mic while minimizing the ambient from the sides. Not too shabby. I can only imagine how good the really expensive shotguns are.

- Don

I have a AT4073A and just love the full rounded bottom end of the sound. When used in the sweet spot audio needs next to no sweetening. I use it as a boom mic though and not an "on camera" mic. For on camera I use the ME64/K6 combo with the K-Tek shock mount. Has similar proximity effect to the human head but it does lack the solid bottom end of the Audio Technica AT4073A. The ME64/K6 is good for doc and ENG run & gun work in my opinion.

I own a ME66/k6. 5 or 6 years ago it was the "Go to" mic, but in the last few years sound guys LOVE to tear it down. So now it's a whipping boy. But I think it's still a good little mic although it's nearly useless indoors. The Audio Technica AT4073A is highly regarded but it's more expensive. Don't forget some kind of windscreen. The "Mike Muff" is good if you're broke.

Bob,
I use a ME66 on my camera and find it does a great job. If I have the luxury of using a sound tech, and that person wants to use their own gear (which I encourage) then it's up to them what they choose to use, and I have found more often than not, it is a 416. There is no question to me that the 416 is a better mic, but is it worth the extra money? That would be up to you. I find that the ability of the ME66 to use both phantom power or internal power makes it more versatile to me, and I often have a Lectrosonics 'butt plug' attached so that I can remove the mic and have a wireless shotgun ready to go at any moment. When I am working by myself, this allows me to 'drop' the shotgun closer to my subject (if I'm not using a lav and just want better nat sound) in an inconspicuous place. That said, this creates a couple of issues. One is having a receiver (or two) always attached to the camera. (that's another whole thread) The other is there is no way you can use the stock camera shotgun mount to carry this much weight if you have a transmitter attached to the mic. As you've probably already read, many are breaking off already without the added weight of a transmitter.
One of the first things I did with my EX3 was take that worthless mic holder off. It's cheap plastic, and I didn't give it a month rigged the way I like to set my camera up. I waded through all the posts here, and searched the web for the perfect solution which would provide some shock mount, plus some added height so the rycote doesn't show in the frame, and make it easy to remove the mic in a hurry. After much research and experimentation, I finally settled on something I already owned, the Sony CAC-12 mic mount.
Sony | CAC-12 Camera Microphone Holder | CAC12 | B&H Photo Video
I believe I noticed someone else here has used this on their EX.... When I first looked at it, I didn't want to have to grind down the two nipples which protrude from the EX when the stock mount is removed. I also didn't want to drill holes in my CAC-12 to fit it over the nipples on the EX... I still use this on my Beta D600. But in the end, I finally just drilled the small holes in the CAC-12 to allow it to sit flush on the EX, and it fit perfectly. Well, almost perfectly... the tiny 12mm (I think?) screws used on the EX are disappointing. Even my old PD-150 had beefier screws mounting the mic holder in place.... but whatever. You will have to find some longer 12mm screws and use some small washers to keep the screw heads from trying to fall into the holes on the CAC-12 which uses a much bigger allen screw on the Beta. I did not have to enlarge the holes on the CAC-12 even though the do not match the mount on the EX perfectly, since the holes in the CAC-12 are big enough to make up the difference in the spread on the EX mount. It actually makes for a pretty firm mount. (as much as that can be said with the construction of the EX)
This probably isn't perfect, but nothing is going to be. I like the added height, the robust mount will take the weight of the ME66 with the transmitter easily. It has done so for a decade on my Beta. Now, if I can just avoid taking the whole XLR apparatus off the EX.....
One added advantage of the CAC-12, is if you do not tighten the lock too tightly, there will be some 'play' should you walk into a door or something smacks into the mic. This will allow the mount to pivot a bit and take the hit, hopefully taking the stress off the mounting and (hopefully) not cracking or breaking where this screws into the camera. I have had this happen a couple of times now, and was VERY happy the mic just moved out of the way rather than transmit that force down to the camera mount. I don't think there is any other mount which would have this ability.

Anyway, this works. I have not had unacceptable noise from this mount, and if I do start hearing something, I can just remove the mic and get it near my subject (providing you're not on the move) If I'm working with a producer or talent who can take the mic, it is very convenient to be able to just hand it off without a lot of XLR cable to deal with connected to the camera.
This does not use up the cold shoe mount above the camera mic which I do use for a light now and then. It's nice to still have that when I need it.

As a side note, I spent some time recently chatting with some Sony reps recently up at the Sundance Film Festival. I wanted to discuss some issues with them (the IR contamination issue, the necessity of using a circular polarizer, SDHC use, and more relevant the crappy design of the shotgun holder and tripod mount on both EX cameras. Surprisingly, the guy I talked with said Sony was aware of both issues, and is looking into it. What that means is anyone's guess..... but at least they acknowledge some poor design in those areas.

I hope this helps somewhat.... but the short answer to all this is don't use the mic holder on the camera. Buy what suits your needs best, there are many decent options provided by many others here. The one thing everyone is in agreement on, is the stock mount WILL break eventually, especially with a larger mic such as the ME66 or 416 sticking out of it with a dead cat attached. Good luck-

Thanks everyone. My camera arrived last night. When I look through the product brochure, the mount and attached mic look relatively low profile and inconspicious compared to some of the larger shock mounting solutions people are suggesting. One picture I found had the shockmount standing almost a foot above the camera. I cannot imagine shooting handheld with something like that.

Has anyone tried the Sony shotgun?