DV Info Net

DV Info Net (https://www.dvinfo.net/forum/)
-   Sony XDCAM EX Pro Handhelds (https://www.dvinfo.net/forum/sony-xdcam-ex-pro-handhelds/)
-   -   The thing I dislike MOST about my EX1... (https://www.dvinfo.net/forum/sony-xdcam-ex-pro-handhelds/145325-thing-i-dislike-most-about-my-ex1.html)

Peter Mee March 7th, 2009 03:35 PM

The thing I dislike MOST about my EX1...
 
For me, it's the way the LCD is off level. When I flip it out, it is angled downwards somewhat. Despite my tripod being absolutly level, the image can look off level and I often find myself hunting for horizontal or vertical lines in shot to check my sanity.

Is it just my cam or is this common?

Peter

Mal Williams March 7th, 2009 03:46 PM

Yep, I feel your pain bud - my EX1 does the same thing. Sometimes it's a small comfort to have the on screen markers up just to check you're square. My old Z1P is the same too - you think I'd be used to it by now. There doesn't seem to be any remedy except to use a Hoodpro type arrangement so you can't see the rest of the camera when you're shooting!
Cheers Mal

John Peterson March 8th, 2009 08:01 AM

For me that flimsy little mind bogglingly retarded camera - off - media power switch tops the list.

John

James Huenergardt March 8th, 2009 08:28 AM

White balance button placement and not being able to snap zoom in servo mode.

Michael B. McGee March 8th, 2009 09:23 AM

I'm disappointed at the lack of knowing exactly where your focus is at on the LCD. The DoF bar is nice i guess but if you start on a wide shot and zoom in you could be off by 10 feet or even more.

Erik Phairas March 8th, 2009 11:41 AM

I would like a switch that disables all but the record and zoom button. Moving the camera around I have hit buttons by mistake.

John Hedgecoe March 8th, 2009 11:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Erik Phairas (Post 1024358)
I would like a switch that disables all but the record and zoom button. Moving the camera around I have hit buttons by mistake.

Now THAT would be useful. I have also done the same thing, especially the $#@%$ buttons under the handle.

But for me the worst thing about the EX1 is the ergonomics. The power button comes a very close second.

Craig Seeman March 8th, 2009 11:57 AM

Not have a pre record cache. I do lots of "news" style shoots and I often have to leave the camera running for long periods since subjects tend to arrive late.

Dean Sensui March 8th, 2009 01:47 PM

I second Craig's point!

Tom Hardwick March 8th, 2009 02:54 PM

When the Z1's screen was so good and matt, why did they have to make the EX1's screen hi-gloss? In direct sunlight you see the Z1's image, but I have to move my head about with the EX1 to get rid of all those fringe pattern colours (or whatever they are). OK, it's a lot sharper than the Z1's screen.... so I'll shut up.

tom.

Vito DeFilippo March 8th, 2009 03:23 PM

The thing I hate most about the EX1 is not having one so I could have something to complain about...

Andy Nickless March 8th, 2009 03:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Craig Seeman (Post 1024368)
Not have a pre record cache.

I changed to the EX1 from a Panny HVX200 and the pre-record buffer is the feature I miss most of all. (In fact there aren't many other features of the HVX that I miss at all).

C.S. Michael March 8th, 2009 09:58 PM

This feels a little like complaining about Giselle Bundchen's elbows, but... the EX1 remote is pretty bad. My HV20 remote works much better.

Bob Hart March 8th, 2009 10:22 PM

The thing I miss about the EX1 is not having a F35. But for the time being (likely forever), it will do nicely until the cargo plane comes home and brings the good thing for the people.


I think it is a fair deal for the the price/results. With a very compact form, not everyone can be pleased. I'm not so unhappy about the sliding switch. It is an improvement over the little press and twist affair holdover from the handycams on the ZI/FX1/PD150.

They had to make the call between it sticking too far out into the line of fire or being less obtrusive and therefore protected. (Cut the booger nail longer on the pinky finger and the thumbnail longer to dig into the channel it slides in and you will be fine after a bit of practice).

An "all disable" switch would be fine but for mugs like me or learners under pressure to get a one-off event job done, it would add one more layer of possible confusion at the worst possible time. To implement this function now after the design has been locked off might mean it has to be menu based, possibly to a user assign button.

Andy Nickless March 9th, 2009 01:12 AM

OK - I'm going to cheat (and rant) a little.

Here's another thing I dislike most about the EX1 - in fact, about every video camera I've owned to date (I can't afford those interchangeable lenses and for my work I need a small camera anyway).

Sony along with all the other manufacturers fit lenses that have f-stop (iris) settings from about f1.9 to f16.

But these lenses are UNUSABLE from f8 to f16.
If you inadvertently set your iris to anything over f6.7, the image is soft to say the least.

So WHY do they all do this?
(What's the point - apart from conning the poor buyer / operator)?

Adam Reuter March 9th, 2009 01:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andy Nickless (Post 1024684)
OK - I'm going to cheat (and rant) a little.

Here's another thing I dislike most about the EX1 - in fact, about every video camera I've owned to date (I can't afford those interchangeable lenses and for my work I need a small camera anyway).

Sony along with all the other manufacturers fit lenses that have f-stop (iris) settings from about f1.9 to f16.

But these lenses are UNUSABLE from f8 to f16.
If you inadvertently set your iris to anything over f6.7, the image is soft to say the least.

So WHY do they all do this?
(What's the point - apart from conning the poor buyer / operator)?


Yeah, I think it's always been that way forever. I remember reading an ENG/EFP book back in college and they said that the sweet spot on most (if not all) lenses is like 2.4 - 5.6 . This is much the same with film/digital lenses having sweet spots in the f/8-f/11 range. Since video optics have to cover a much wide focal length range than film lenses that's where one of the compromises lie.

Adam Reuter March 9th, 2009 01:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peter Mee (Post 1024032)
For me, it's the way the LCD is off level. When I flip it out, it is angled downwards somewhat. Despite my tripod being absolutly level, the image can look off level and I often find myself hunting for horizontal or vertical lines in shot to check my sanity.

Is it just my cam or is this common?

Peter

I think it's really common because a lot of my handheld shots have been slighty tilted and I SWEAR I had the darn horizontals level!

To compensate I use the overlay rule-of-third overlays.

Tom Hardwick March 9th, 2009 02:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peter Mee (Post 1024032)
For me, it's the way the LCD is off level. When I flip it out, it is angled downwards somewhat.Is it just my cam or is this common?

My Z1 does this too but I've stuck a small piece of self-adhesive velcro onto the screen which stops the screen opening so far and going past horizontal. The Z7 (I think) has a horizon level you can call up on screen - doesn't the Z1 have this?

Tom Hardwick March 9th, 2009 02:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andy Nickless (Post 1024684)
Sony along with all the other manufacturers fit lenses that have f-stop (iris) settings from about f1.9 to f16.But these lenses are UNUSABLE from f8 to f16.

Why do they do this? Because people that ignore the silent scream for ND still get correctly exposed footage, albeit soft. My VX2000 from years ago would film (only in auto, mind) at f/16. f/22 and even f/32 before the iris blades closed completely. It gave correct exposure, but diffraction robbed a lot of the sharpness.

I'm pretty sure the Canon XH range stop at f/9.5. Most cameras go to f/11, but f/16?

tom.

Gints Klimanis March 9th, 2009 03:56 AM

The buttons on the barrel are too flush to find by tough. A little raised plastic dot in the middle would help. I liked the VX2000/Z1 button. If you want to use the Push-Auto focus button, you have to visually search for it. The same goes for the White Balance Push button.

Chip Curry March 10th, 2009 02:02 PM

One thing I would like to see is some kind of paint scheme on the audio buttons on the back so you could see in dim light where they are set--maybe some orange color in the recessed area.

I had one set incorrectly and spent too many seconds with no audio trying to figure out why I had no signal.

Also, I have disabled the zoom a few times by accidentally moving that switch on the bottom while hand holding.

David Schmerin March 15th, 2009 10:30 AM

One of the things I dislike about my camera is that because of the redesign of the flip out monitor, I can now only work the camera from one side. At least with the Z1U I could leave the monitor fliped 1/2 way up or or set on top so I could work the camera from both sides.

Another thing that really bothers me is the amazingly bad output connectors and their placement with that cheesy plastic cover.

David Schmerin

Andy Schocken March 15th, 2009 12:53 PM

The thing I dislike the most is the ergonomics. Unusable for handheld verite except for short bursts of shooting. Second is the lack of a switchable daylight/tungsten wb preset- I don't know how they messed that one up.

Ben Hogan March 15th, 2009 09:17 PM

I'll add another tick mark for the power button, sometimes when trying to turn off I slip it too far and put it into media mode or vise versa.

Also another tick for the output connectors. The zoom controller has to be titled in order to get to it. It's not terribly a pain but a nuisance at times.

I'll add one about the mic holder. Why did they stop supplying the rubber piece that helped keep most mics snug in the holder like way back in the PD150? Those few pieces of bubbly rubber don't hold most boom mics at all, like Senns ME6?, etc. I think the last camera to have it was the HVR-A1 HDV camera.

I love the camera though and wouldn't trade it to go back to tape based cameras for nothing.

Piotr Wozniacki March 16th, 2009 02:29 AM

Well, I can see most EX1 weaknesses have been mentioned already in this thread. I'd only add the pathetic ND filter switch, which tends to stick in between positions (especially when trying to engage ND1 from ND0, and not miss the ND1 position).

Scott Hayes March 16th, 2009 06:41 AM

for me, rolling shutter, but it is something I will learn to live with given the
performance of this camera

Gints Klimanis March 16th, 2009 04:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scott Hayes (Post 1028411)
for me, rolling shutter, but it is something I will learn to live with given the
performance of this camera

This is something to live with for all new video cameras. At the very least, I'd like to see a "True 720p" crop mode that doesn't involve downsizing from 1080p. This would reduce artifacts, increase sharpness and even relieve roller shutter artifacts a bit in 720p mode.

Craig Seeman March 16th, 2009 04:48 PM

There's a fundamental issue with 1/2" chips in such a small camera around power use and, more importantly, heat. CMOS uses less power and generates less heat. You either want 1/2" chips and live with rolling shutter or you can get a 1/3" CCD XDCAM EX camera like those now offered by JVC.

In other words this is more of a choice than a problem. It's either 1/2" CMOS or 1/3" CCD in cameras this small due to technical issues. The alternative if you must have 1/2" CCD is to get XDCAM F335 or F355.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scott Hayes (Post 1028411)
for me, rolling shutter, but it is something I will learn to live with given the
performance of this camera


Ed Kukla March 16th, 2009 05:23 PM

small iris
 
regarding f11 to f16 softness. The smaller the chip, the more that is a problem. You will see a softer image when stopped down past around f9 in a 1/3" chip, around f11 on a 1/2" chip. It's optical physics.

use the ND wheel as much as possible keeping to around f4 to f8

Markus Klatt March 17th, 2009 03:49 AM

For my special needs (filming fireworks displays/pyrotechnics only):
  • no hard audio limiters - I need real full manual control
  • pre-record cache 3-10 seconds
  • possibility of moving iris wheel when I am in shot transition "execute" mode. Or at least: "transition execute on/off" button (not this 4x clicking thing from today)
And 1080/50p would let me forget the above mentioned 3 issues... ;)

Hanno Klein March 19th, 2009 11:06 AM

Hi,

for me i dislike the freaky jerky zoom when you try to do a slow zoom with using a Remote Control like the Bebob EX1 or the Manfrotto EX521. We have two EX1 cameras working perfect, but our new EX1 does the jerky zoom and sony say that is normal...mmh...so this i dislike it most. And i will never buy a EX1 again without testing it before.

-Hanno

Ted OMalley March 19th, 2009 11:32 AM

Isn't it nice that nobody has said "poor image quality" even once!

Many of these issues were addressed on the EX3 - audio buttons recessed together, LCD, etc. However, the power switch is still VERY stupid.

Keith Moreau March 19th, 2009 11:35 AM

I'd love to have the expanded focus out through the external video ports, would be so much more useful for focusing.

Piotr Wozniacki March 19th, 2009 11:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Keith Moreau (Post 1030318)
I'd love to have the expanded focus out through the external video ports, would be so much more useful for focusing.

Yeah... Ideally with zebras, peaking, histogram and dof bar, too.

Andy Nickless March 19th, 2009 02:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ted OMalley (Post 1030316)
Isn't it nice that nobody has said "poor image quality" even once!

Sorry to disagree Ted.
If you scroll up you'll see my post above.

Quote:

If you inadvertently set your iris to anything over f6.7, the image is soft to say the least.

David C. Williams March 19th, 2009 03:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andy Nickless (Post 1024684)
OK - I'm going to cheat (and rant) a little.

Here's another thing I dislike most about the EX1 - in fact, about every video camera I've owned to date (I can't afford those interchangeable lenses and for my work I need a small camera anyway).

Sony along with all the other manufacturers fit lenses that have f-stop (iris) settings from about f1.9 to f16.

But these lenses are UNUSABLE from f8 to f16.
If you inadvertently set your iris to anything over f6.7, the image is soft to say the least.

So WHY do they all do this?
(What's the point - apart from conning the poor buyer / operator)?

They don't intentionally make it soft :) There is no lens on the planet that would help you, unless they somehow disobeyed the laws of physics.
It has to do with the optical low pass filter, the size of the sensor, and the iris. Once you stop down past around 5.6 your getting to the point where green light, the major sharpness component of vision, starts to become partially blocked. So your resolution drops.
The smaller the sensor, the tighter the optical low pass filter size, the earlier the f-stop begins to affect the resolution. It begins roughly at F4 on 1/3, F5.6 on 1/2 and F8 on 2/3.
You haven't been conned, you just weren't paying attention during high school physics :) Look up Airy Disc.

Tom Hardwick March 20th, 2009 01:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by David C. Williams (Post 1030424)
It has to do with the optical low pass filter, the size of the sensor, and the iris.

Not sure about optical low pass filters but you're seeing diffraction losses coming in to play, where light rays - that should remain straight to form a sharp image - bend when they meet a sharp, hard-edged surface such as the iris blades.

So diffraction begins as soon as you start to stop down the lens and it's only the first couple of stops that removes the vignetting and internal flare that disguises the fact that diffraction has started to take hold.

My old VX2000 has iris blades that would stop down (in auto) to f/16, f/22 and even f/45 before they closed completely. For those that would ignore the silent scream for the NDs, it meant you still got correctly exposed (but very soft) footage.

So no need to rant Andy - as David says, it's the laws of optics at work.

tom.

Piotr Wozniacki March 20th, 2009 02:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by David C. Williams (Post 1030424)
The smaller the sensor, the tighter the optical low pass filter size, the earlier the f-stop begins to affect the resolution. It begins roughly at F4 on 1/3, F5.6 on 1/2 and F8 on 2/3.

Interestingly, with my old good V1E diffraction effect kicked in also at F6.7-F8, even though it has 1/4" imagers (vs 1/2" of the EX1), so I'd say the EX1 becomes soft a bit too early.

David C. Williams March 20th, 2009 02:52 AM

The OLPF is where it's blocked, but that's directly correlated to sensor size. It's the narrowest point the photon has to pass through.
1/2" CMOS is roughly 7mm wide. 7/1920 @ 0.0036 or @ 3600nm per photosite. The OLPF filters out detail twice that pitch @ 7200. When the Airy Disk get bigger than the photosite, you get diffraction limiting on your resolution.
Airy Disk = 1.22 Green = 550nm - 1.22*550*5.6 F-Stop = @ 3750nm. The diameter is @ 7500nm, bigger than the OLPF and resolution loss occurs.


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 12:38 AM.

DV Info Net -- Real Names, Real People, Real Info!
1998-2024 The Digital Video Information Network