Ideal Recording format for SD production
 

Is there a optimal recording format when your production will be SD ntsc.

I am using the EX1 and have almost every software conversion utility available.

Probably 1080/30p. Most resolution, easy conversion to 480/60i.

The BBC recommends shooting at 720P - less pixels to throw out in the downsizing process.

720P60 would be the way to go. Converting 1080i to SD often leads to problems with the field order and 1080 has too much resolution which lead to excessive aliasing. 720 is better with less aliasing due to the lower resolution. If you shoot 60P when converting to 60i then individual frames get turned into fields so you get smooth motion but without the problems you get shooting 1080 60i.

Sorry, I should have added 720P 60 or 50fps (NTSC & PAL regions)

Agree 720 60p. We have many clients that require SD, but want a HD archive. I would prefer to archive in 1080, but our tests demonstrate 720 60P is the way to go for now.

So if you are say shooting weddings and down converting to SD dvds would you choose 720 instead of 1080

Fully agreed, if you want fluid motion. The alternative would be 1080p/30 if "film motion" is actively desired. Least desirable is 1080i/30 *if the primary interest is SD*.

My best workflow for SD down-coversion off of EX camera
 

I saw the BBC recommendation to shoot 720P60 for downconvert and I am REALLY happy with the result.

In fact, yesterday I shot a sports video that needs to be 720x480 60i, and the cleanest, easiest workflow for me is:

- Shoot 720p60, protecting for 4:3

- Play back SD-SDI out of camera with the edge crop downconversion

- Capture the SDI with my AJA LHe doing a realtime conversion to DV50 codec (I don't have harddrives fast enough for uncompressed SDI video).

This is hands down the best looking SD video I have seen come off my camera. The drawback is of course you are back to real-time capture and you have to have a SDI-capable card to injest into your computer. And this workflow is only if you are shooting with the EX but you know you will only ever need an SD version of your video (which in this day does still apply sometimes).

Nearly all my work is for SD output and I have been shooting in 1080 25P (50fps), editing and rendering to a Full HD avi file then downconverting using MainConcept Reference.

I have noticed the aliasing in a short film I just completed where there were several close ups of text messages from a mobile phone. The text produced some aliasing over the several seconds it was on the screen.

I think I will try shooting in 720p for those projects I know will only be used on std DVD's and now am wondering if I should start shooting interlaced as well?

Ive always gone with progressive but as alot of my work ends up on std DVD, should I just shoot in interlaced and continue that down the work flow?

Cheers

Jamie

The answer has been given by Alister in his post

60P? What... 60 progressive frames a second? 60 frames a second would be referring to 30fps interlaced I thought?

I shoot in 25 progressive FPS (Im in PAL land) and if I lived in NTSC land I would assume if I wanted to shoot progressive I would shoot in 30 or 24fps. When I read 60 or 50 as a reference to what format someone is shooting, I am assuming interlaced.

Or are we referring to shutter speed?

I am guilty of 'skimming' through threads a bit so maybe I missed something!

cheers

Jamie

Sorry Vincent.

Its the terminology thing that gets me. I shoot in 25 Progressive with a shutter speed of 50.

I hadnt used the 720 50p format option and hadnt noticed it! I will give it a go now as the work flow mentioned sounds good for what I do.

Im clearly a little slow on the uptake!

Cheers

Jamie

No problem Jamie, it can all be a bit daunting.

Usually when refering to interlaced mode people will use 50i or 60i. progressive mode is indicated as 50P or 60P. 720 doesn't have an interlaced mode.

When shooting in 720 25P with the shutter turned OFF, then you exposures will be 1/25 sec on each frame. If shooting 720 50P then your shutter speed will be 1/50 sec per frame. If shooting in 720 25P then I would recommend that you turn the shutter ON (front switch on the EX3) and set your shutter speed to 1/50 sec (double the frame rate). You will still be shooting in 25fps. This should eliminate any slight blurring through camera movement.

Perhaps the best way is to take your camera out in the garden and shoot 1 minute of footage (data) using each of the settings and then compare. I did this and wrote the files to DVD, then looked at them on my TV set, at least it gave me a good idea of how the movie quality was going to look like.

Thanks Vincent.

The whole shutter off/on thing is a strange thing to me. I just leave it on and leave it at 1/50 usually. I dont really understand why I need the option of turning it off!

Cheers

Jamie

I guess someone has a use for it especially when shooting with fully auto.

Off if useful for low light situations. I was shooting a conference on Friday where I had the shutter off.

I was shooting 1080i at 50fps. The only way to get a 1/50 shutter speed in that format is to turn the shutter off.

It is confusing because on my B camera (a Z1) you can just select 1/50 as a shutter speed directly.

I'm doing some freelance work for a post production house and everything is going to SD DVD.

This is what I'm doing.
Shoot in 1080i Pal Sony EX1
Set up a SD FCP Seq and bring the footage into the FCP timeline. You will be asked to change settings to suit footage, select NO. You want to edit on the SD template. For some reason FCP re-scales footage better than Compressor...... I dont know why?

Edit the footage out. Make a quicktime of the edit and bring this into Compressor. select Best 90 min template, render out.

This, I do all day every day and things look good.

Cheers

I forgot to mention that FCP will insert a field change on the EX1 footage to bring this in line with the SD def settings. SD = lower field first

There are some many suggestions and solutions in this thread now.
For me, living in a Europen PAL-country and working with the EX3, it's getting a bit confusing.
So, here's a short & straight question. And, hopefully, somebody will give a short & straigt answer:

What's the real best setting for optimal SD-results?

Thank you loads!

Here it is in a nutshell, shoot 720 50P.


A better way would be to shoot a couple of minutes in each setting and write a DVD video disc and then decide for yourself which looks the best.

Good luck

I am recording 1080i.

Concerning my workflow, I am reposting here what I have already posted in another forum as it might be interesting for this thread.

As I do a lot of processing, I want to eliminate multiple deinterlacing/reinterlacing generations. Therefore I now deinterlace everything to 1080p50 files, do all the editing and afterwards reinterlace. I also render at 1080p50. So if the final customer wants 50p, I give the files like they are. If he wants 25p, I throw every second frame. If he wants interlaced, I reinterlace. You need to have more space and convert source footage to 50p, but you have one workflow for all delivery formats.

Err, FYI this actually depends on your codec.

DV/DVCPRO50=lower field first.
IMX50/MPEG50=upper field first (a great codec to go to when going to SD from XDCAM EX BTW)
PRORES=upper field first.

I've been experimenting when going to interlaced SD a lot recently. Normally i'm shooting progressive and go to progressive SD so haven't really had any problems transcoding down from 720 25p.

However when going from 1080i to interlaced SD i seemed to run into a lot of interlaced flickering under certain conditions, ugly.

This was shooting with the detail setting ON in my picture profile. I turned it OFF yesterday and did another small interview in 1080i and it came out better.

However after reading this thread i think i might give 720 50p a go. with the detail setting back ON. When detail was OFF the image was too soft for my liking (wanting the reality look here, hence needing SD interlaced).

If you want "smooth motion" - 720p/50
If you want "film-look" (or "jerky") motion - 1080p/25

That's if the end SD result is PAL - which in your case it will be. If it's to be NTSC, use the corresponding 60Hz based settings - 720p/60 and 1080p/30 respectively.

Not sure of the logic behind 1080p/25, 720p/25 would be the better option (smaller frame size = less downscalling)