EX3 already has improved IR cut.
 

I have just been told that the EX3 already has an improved far-infra red cut-off filter! This is news to me, but came from a source that is reliable and should know! It might explain why I have never found red contamination to be an issue as I use my EX3 for most jobs. My contact was not sure whether the new filter was fitted to the EX3's from the start or introduced later in the production run. Also there have been some changes made to the sealing of the optical block on later units to prevent dust ingress.

So, who with an EX3 has seen the problem or is it just EX1 owners?

From what I remember, it's been mainly us early EX1 adopters, Alister :(

Funny you should have posted this today Alister, I have just booted up my computer to post on this very same issue.

I have been shooting all day at the Canon solutions Show in London. All the Canon staff were wearing black T shirts and behold they have all turned brown. I will post a short video clip later, its downloading as I type.

Now in my opinion this is a fault with the Sony camera, and not a deliberate feature to improve the Red gamut as Sony would have us believe. It is totally unacceptable to work with any camera that displays this fault. I will be pushing Sony to provide a solution to this problem - and I don't regard spending £90 - £120 on an IR filter a solution.

Watch this space !!!!

I have an EX3 and have most definitely seen the problem.... sometimes very noticeable. Fortunately however, the times it has shown up it wasn't that big of a deal that the black clothing affected didn't stay black. So no one but me and the interviewee would know (or an observant producer) One time I recall shooting an interview very late in the day in the Nevada desert. The sun was about half an hour away from setting, and the interview went long. While the sun was low, the IR issue was horrible on a black sweater, but again, who would know the sweater wasn't really maroon? As the sun set, the sweater actually changed before my eyes (in the viewfinder of course) back to black. THAT one was hard to ignore....

If the EX3 really does have improved far red cutoff, then I'd hate to see how bad an EX1 is. My EX3 is about a year old. It would be nice to know if these filters can be updated as new improvements come out.... but it's not giving me that much heartburn. I do have a 486 which works perfectly when I really need to keep blacks black. This would be a much different attitude if I was shooting weddings or corporate events where black suits prevail.

will post new shots in a minute or two

Vincent you didn't say what camera you were shooting with - A Sony EX-3 at a Canon event or was it a Canon camera?
I assume that was in reality a black shirt?

I've seen the problem on other cameras, not just EX's. Ther are some pretty dodgy blacks in the studio shots in Strictly Come Dancing for example. Now thi may just be lighting, but to me it looks more like far red contamination.

I'de love to see a side by side comparison of a newish EX3 and EX1. My EX3 is a very early one so may not have the improved filter.... If it's real.

I have my EX3 just about 6 or 7 months and have most definitely seen the problem with the blacks turning brownish.

It was the Sony EX3, in the past I always used either a Canon XL1s or XH A1. I am shooting a black tie event in a couple of weeks time and can't see how I can use the Sony for this.

Color correct the blacks in your nonlinear editor.

Its generally not possible Tom. I've tried it. Their are 2 many shades of "grey" to isolate easily and if you do an all over black correction it turns real blacks green.

I saw the IR problem with my EX3 during one of my first shoots over 1 year ago and it repeats itself with the 'correct' (or should I say incorrect) conditions. I am not terribly fussed and although it does not come up too often for me, not one client has commented or asked me about it. It is somewhat annoying so I may look to the Tiffen T1 solution.

Your source may be discussing newer production models rather than the first models perhaps. Check back with him/her to see if it was a blanket statement or part of ongoing improvements that was never publicised.

Cheers Alister

I see this problem with my EX3 every time I shoot in sunny conditions.

A month a ago I was shooting a wedding and the groom, best man and ushers were all standing in a line. Looking through the eyepiece I was wondering why the groom was wearing a dark red suit compared to the other members of the party. Looking straight at them they all looked dressed in black, yet the EX3 was showing the groom in the dreaded red. I fixed it in post, but it's a regular occurance and I for one will be buying the filter at the first oportunity.

Steve, how did you fix it in post?
I tried it using only FCP tools and it was impossible for me.

I got my EX3 at the end of July 08 - so I guess a very early one, certainly the s/n is very low (it's one of the first few hundred, from memory).

Yes I have the IR problem - although I tolerate it because of all the other truely excellent features and stunning picture quality that this cam otherwise brings to my work. Nothing is perfect and it's all about using the tools you have to best advantage / knowing their limitations. With very rare exceptions, 99% of my (mostly corporate) audience don't even notice it.

Vincent:

I guess I'm confused. The Canon guy's shirt, indeed, appears to be brown. But the camera in his hand, several signs behind him, the lavalliere mic against his shirt, the railings and the ornamental bracing in the rafters are all black. How's that happen?

Also... I've had an EX3 since June of this year and I have never seen the problem.

Yes, now you're getting the problem: different materials will exhibit different shades of yuk instead of black. The camera is paint on metal which, in this instance, did not exhibit the problem but the synthetic shirt did. Not all blacks exhibit this problem, and some exhibit the problem worse than others. I have had a subject wear a jacket made of two different types of material, both appearing black to the naked eye, but show up on my one-year-old EX3 as completely different shades of yuk - it made his jacket look ludicrous and the footage was useless.

This is why it's nearly impossible to fix in post.

I got my EX3 in July of the year and it still has the same problem my Dec '07 EX1 had with IR. That's why I have a 486 filter on it all the time.

Brooks, I've never seen anything like this that can't be fixed in post. I use Avid, but FCP3's Color has even better color correction tools than Avid does.

Some things are close to impossible, but I don't think this is one of them.

I've come across brown blacks with my EX3 a number of times, and if anyone wants proof I've got the footage to show it. It isn't lighting because I was shooting with the EX as a B camera white balanced to the same white balance card as the A camera under the same lighting. My Nottingham Buggies thing I shot the other week suffers from it too with the centres owners black fleece coming out brown. The EX3 might be improved, but the issue is most definitely still there in a big way.

It is hard to fix in post because even with secondary correction you might end up colour correcting objects that are supposed to be brown and look the same to the camera. Which means you have to use vignettes and tracking. Far more trouble than it is worth for simple edits. I don't mind doing grading for clients who pay for it. But otherwise I shouldn't have to touch the likes of Apple Color.

bought my EX-3 this March '09 and I get plenty of red in black clothing. Just saw it last week again. I see it in indoor ambient daylight, pure quartz tungsten lighting and also in mixed commercial interior lighting, mostly flourescents. I've dialed down the chroma in my picture profile and that helps a LITTLE bit.

From an EX1, just wanted to share. Late 2008 model. Impossible for me to correct in FCP because of very similar background colors. Maybe a pro could have fixed it but no budget for that. Bought the 486 after this :(

Warehouse: Sunlight
Bedroom: Tungsten
Liquor Store: Fluorescent

My EX3 is 10 months old. First thing tested was IR contamination and yes, very obvious problem. To this point I've been using the Schneider 486 filter to manage Sony's vaunted "design feature."

Hello to everyone,
I purchased my EX3 in late August 09 and I have had major issues with IR. Most of my work is with corporate and live stage event where we have plenty of black dinner suites and artificial lights. I could not use my camera for my production work until the ir issue was fixed. Our local Sony service centre said they have never had a complaint about this problem and they checked the Sony service web site with no report about this issue. I have now made a written complaint with the Sony service centre and they are making enquiries direct with Sony. I was told this was a slow process it can take months to get results. ( Gee they took my money pretty quick)

In desperation I ordered a Tiffen 1ir filter and it arrived yesterday and after some quick testing I can confirmed the ir problem has gone. The downside is the extra cost and I have lost 1 fstop. I am not sure what effect the filter will have if left on the camera permanently, I use 4x4 filters so it’s no big deal to remove it. When you work low light conditions losing 1 fstop really effects your depth of field on 20’ deep stage. If Sony had the right filter in place I believe that at the worst I may lose up to ½ fstop or at the best not lose nothing. I refuse to believe that Sony are not aware of this problem.

To Sony I say it’s time for you to be a good corporate citizen and repair the camera’s that have this fault.

Perhaps I have over simplified "fixing in post". I use Color (well I attempt to) to tweak the image to get rid of the Yuk. It works to a degree but there are drawbacks as other colours are affected.

Last night I picked up the IR T1 filter off Ebay for £45 and it should be with me tomorrow. Reports say its the problem solver so I will know this weekend as I am filming a wedding with lots of black suits.

Lance,
I've been shooting stage shows since the EX1 first came out. Despite the extra cost I think you'll find the 486 better suited to your needs. We're never shooting wide enough for the downside of the 486 to be a problem.

Hi Barry, thats what i did, I bought the 486 filter before I bought my EX3. During my first wedding recorded with the Ex3 I had to fit the filter and I've kept it on since, seams to have fixed the problem.

I wonder if this is fixed in the new EX1r.

Apparantly it is!

I see the far red problem on my EX-3 which was one of the very first batch in the UK.

Does your source say exactly when this was supposed to have happened Alister? We invested in brand new, boxed EX3's about 4 months ago, and have had to buy an add-on IR filter for each one.

That's one of the things I'm trying to establish.

Hello Bob,
Tell me do leave the 486 on the camera all time and if you do any have you notice changes to colours etc when shooting outdoors.
Many Thanks

Just in case anyone doubted the EX3 has IR problems take a look at my Canon 1D Mkl 1V preview - top item on my home page - the T shirts are black to my eye but not to the Sony lens.

Digital Photography at photo-i

Graham,

I brought the screen grabs into Avid and tried correcting them. The bedroom scene is definitely a challenge b/c a lot of similar colors in the composition.

The warehouse was pretty straight forward. The matte did choose some other parts of the scene, but it didn't really change the rest of the image that much.

The liquor store looked good as it was, so I didn't mess with it.

Using a filter is definitely easier. But it does lose light, add a slight green bias (even with a new WB) and reduce red intensity, it seems that using one when needed would be optimal.

But I have to say, the bedroom scene was more difficult to correct than I would have thought.

Thanks for the examples.

I've had success with Colorista by using the power mask feature. Not ideal but saved my backside where one important interviewee had her black jacket turn brown.

The jacket is still not quite black, but any more tweaking and the other colours in the same area as I'd applied the mask started to look wrong.

Of course if the camera or the subject is moving things would get considerable more challenging.

Hey Peter thanks for trying that out. I also had some success with the outdoor scenes but like you said, the bedroom was a major challenge. I can't imagine how it could be done without rotoscoping.

I was able to get fairly decent results in most scenes with the video paused. That was achieved with some edge thinning and softening in FCP's 3-way color corrector and when played back, the imperfections of the limiter caused funny motion artifacts that were totally unacceptable.

We finally decided to just leave it as is. Client and fans are happy. I wonder how many people question the color changing clothes when casually watching the video. It aired on MTV India and other big networks out there so it was a shame that the blacks didn't come out like they should have.

I included that as a reference for what the black fabric should look like. As you know, fluorescents don't emit infrared light (or at least not in great quantities) so there was no problem there.