EX1 - Recording on Hard-Disk?
 

Hey everybody!

recently i read about using a "normal" ExpressCard to USB-Adapter (called BC268) to record on a USB-Hard-Disk.

So i bought the ExpressCard-Adapter, put it in the Card-Slot of my EX1, connected a USB-HardDisk.... but my EX1 only gives me an error-message. ("Unknown Media (A) Please Change")
The error message appears when i connect the HD to the USB-Port... As long as i only put the BC268 in the Expresscard-Slot, there is no error-message...

What could be the reason? My EX1 is updated to the latest firmware, so Harddisk-adapters should be supported... And i can hear the HD working, so the adapter is providing power to the HD....

Any idea why this doesn't work?

Thanks!

Re: EX1 - Recording on Hard-Disk?
 

You have to format the hard drive using the camera, unless the hard drive is the problem. What kind of hard drive, and is it blank?

John

Re: EX1 - Recording on Hard-Disk?
 

i cant format the drive within the camera, it only tells me "please change" and i can't access the format->Slot A menu.

i used this HD:
640 GB externe 2,5" USB 2.0 Festplatte WD My Passport | eBay

Re: EX1 - Recording on Hard-Disk?
 

Some manufacturers like to be "helpful" and preload their disks with a load of software on a partition. The drive will need to be either a single partition FAT32 drive or have no partitions at all.

Platter based hard disks seem awfully archaic when you have a solid state camera. The least it deserves is a solid state hard disk!

Re: EX1 - Recording on Hard-Disk?
 

Hi Thomas,

The likely culprit will be the USB Drive chipset.

When you open it up, what chipset is being used? Not all chipsets will support the EX camera, from our testing. Even fewer will do it reliably.

You can get a range of error messages from "Unknown media" error, or just plain nothing.

Re: EX1 - Recording on Hard-Disk?
 

Hide USB 2.0 to ExpressCard 34 54 Express Card Adapter BC268 - Express Card - Trait Tech - Wholesale Electronics - China Wholesale - Dropship From China

There is the BC268 in various remarks, not all functions in the EX1. I have 5 pieces BC268 from Trailtech (see link) those to function perfectly.

Re: EX1 - Recording on Hard-Disk?
 

i use the same BC268 as Wolfgang posted in his reply! (Wolfgangs Blog was where I read about this adapter ;) )
I tried the USB 3.0 version before, but i got the "change media" error-message the moment i put in the adapter in the slot.
so i think my USB 2.0 adapter is ok because now i get the error AFTER connecting something to the USB-port.

i also tried several usb-sticks (like in Wolfangs Blog...), but every time i just got "Unknown Media"...

Can you tell me which HDs/Chipsets work with the EX1?
How can i figure out what chipset my HD has?

Re: EX1 - Recording on Hard-Disk?
 

It's probably not the adapter unless you got a bad one. I have two of them.

That exact model Western Digital number is European only, but it is the same as this one:

http://www.amazon.com/Western-Digital-Passport-Essential-Portable/product-reviews/B002OHAH78/ref=cm_cr_pr_top_recent?ie=UTF8&showViewpoints=0&sortBy=bySubmissionDateDescending
Read the comments regarding the cable. Did yours come with a mini USB to USB cable?

John

Re: EX1 - Recording on Hard-Disk?
 

The USB3.0 version of the AKE card will not work in an EX series camera because the expresscard interface is PCIe not USB, ie PCIe ---> USB3.0. Sony specifically block any PCIe interface card accessing their cameras, so it will not work. You know it is PCIe if you need a driver to make it work on your computer.

The AKE BC268 card is a USB2.0 ---> USB2.0, and the USB2.0 interface means it thinks it is talking to a MxR card, it can't tell the difference, and that is why it works.

The downside is that is has a USB Type A plug which means you get a lot of hardware sticking out the side of the camera.

The chipsets that we tested that work fine are JM20336 SATA II 3GB/s and Initio 1608 and 1611 SATA I 1.5GB/s.There are some others but they are less reliable, and we gave up on them.

Apart from pulling your drive apart and using a magnifying glass, I can't offer you any way to tell what chipset it has in it. Maybe contact the manufacturer, they should be happy to help.

Re: EX1 - Recording on Hard-Disk?
 

Yes, mine has a Mini-USB to USB Cable, but it workes fine and stable on my Mac. Why?

Re: EX1 - Recording on Hard-Disk?
 

are you shure the BC268 works with the EX1, not only with the EX1R ?

Re: EX1 - Recording on Hard-Disk?
 

I have an EX1 not an EX1R. I use two BC268 adapters with the camera. Bought them from Deal Extreme.

John

Re: EX1 - Recording on Hard-Disk?
 

I still can't get this to work!

I tried different BC268-Adapters, different Hard Discs, updated the Firmware to the Latest .26 version - but still i get the "Unknown Media - Please Change"-Error..... i have no more idea how i could get this to work.

Do the Hard-Disks have to be Formated in a specific way (NTFS, FAT, FAT32, etc?) so the EX1 will recognize it? Is there a size limit for the partions?
I cant format the disc with the EX1, the Format Media-Option is not available for the Slot I use for this.

Re: EX1 - Recording on Hard-Disk?
 

The problem I suspect is the chipset in the enclosure itself. From an earlier post above:

"The chipsets that we tested that work fine are JM20336 SATA II 3GB/s and Initio 1608 and 1611 SATA I 1.5GB/s.There are some others but they are less reliable, and we gave up on them."

Try and find one that is using either of these.

Our custom built PCB uses the JM20336 in our e-HDR product, and it has proved over the last two years to be extremely robust out in the field.

Re: EX1 - Recording on Hard-Disk?
 

<I still can't get this to work!>

Soll ich dir mal meinen Adapter zum testen leihen?

Re: EX1 - Recording on Hard-Disk?
 

I use a separate power supply to power mine. I didn't want to use the camera for the USB power. Are you doing that? The maximum (regardless of hard drive size) is 84GB per slot on the EX1 when you format them. I have firmware 1.20.

John

Re: EX1 - Recording on Hard-Disk?
 

I tried both Hard Discs using external Power supply and USB-Powered ones.... none of them worked :(
I also tried BC268 from different online-shops (Including the ones from Trailtech Wolfgang recommended)

And I tried to format the HardDiscs i tested before plugging them in my EX1 in several ways: FAT32, no partitions, one FAT32 partition with only 84 GB, leaving the rest of the HD unformated, one FAT32 partition with just 60 GB (rest of the HD unformated) .... nothing worked.

It cant be that i try so many different Hard-Discs and none of them works... everyone else just plugged in a random HD/USB-Stick and it worked......?!

Can anyone recommend a HD known to work? I had no luck just looking for a specific chipset...

Or is there something so simple to do i just forgot?? Do i have to change any settings in the menu? Do i have to unlock this feature somehow?

Wolfgang, vielleicht komme ich echt auf dein Angebot zurück!! Aber wie gesagt, ich hab mir jetzt auch einen Adapter von Trailtech bestellt... mit dem klappts auch nicht... is doch zum Mäusemelken.....

Re: EX1 - Recording on Hard-Disk?
 

Well then if that's the case I would suggest that the problem is the enclosure itself. I used two really cheap enclosures and both of them worked flawlessly. They are a little flimsy, but I leave the hard drives in them and have them velcroed together:

$15.70 - 2.5" SATA/eSATA USB 2.0 HDD Enclosure with USB and eSATA Cables - HDD & Enclosures

It is now discontinued here in the states:

Newegg.com - KINGWIN JT-25EU-BK Aluminum 2.5" Black USB 2.0 & eSATA External Enclosure

However, this statement of your is troubling:

And I tried to format the HardDiscs i tested before plugging them in my EX1 in several ways

You don't format the hard drives first. You let the camera format them just as if they were SxS cards. You probably have a MBR on the discs now that the camera won't accept. But you did say earlier that you were unable to use the camera to format it so I still suspect the enclosure. Reformat the hard drives as one big partition.

John

Re: EX1 - Recording on Hard-Disk?
 

I know, but my EX1 can't access the hard-disc in the first place, so i tried different ways of formatting, so that the EX will recognize the HD. I know i got to format the disc in the EX again...
I've also tried to have no partitions at all on the disc, only free memory, so there was no MBR. But that didnt work either....

I'll try another Enclosure, BUT i allready tried 3 different ones and none of them worked. That cant be by chance i gues....?!

Did any of you had to try different HDs or enclosures for this to work? I feel like everyone just used a random HD and it worked?

So no size-limit for a partition? (84GB or 60GB like the Sony-Harddisc-Recorder has?)

Re: EX1 - Recording on Hard-Disk?
 

So no size-limit for a partition? (84GB or 60GB like the Sony-Harddisc-Recorder has?)
=================================
If you pre-format a 2.5 inch 120GB drive the EX1 will format it at 84GB. If you pre-format a 2.5 inch 320GB drive the EX1 will format it at 84GB.

John

Re: EX1 - Recording on Hard-Disk?
 

>Wolfgang, vielleicht komme ich echt auf dein Angebot zurück!! Aber wie gesagt, ich hab mir jetzt auch einen Adapter von Trailtech bestellt... mit dem klappts auch nicht... is doch zum Mäusemelken.....

...schon mal das USB Kabel ausgetauscht?

Re: EX1 - Recording on Hard-Disk?
 

>...schon mal das USB Kabel ausgetauscht?

Ja, hab schon verschiedene ausprobiert....... :(

Re: EX1 - Recording on $50 Seagate external.
 

EX1r on Firmware 1.1 formats a 500GB Seagate ST905004EXA101-RK drive to 499.1GB. EX1r shows 29.43 hours capacity.
http://www.amazon.com/Seagate-Expans.../ref=pd_cp_e_2
So far the drive seems to work fine. It's quiet, very light and doesn't seem to mind being shaken hard while recording. I have recorded for 2.5 hrs uninterrupted without trouble.

Runs on a single USB to the camera, no additional power needed. I don't think I can do better for $50. Cheap enough to hand to the client after a long shoot. Only has USB port, USB and eSATA would be nice.

Re: EX1 - Recording on Hard-Disk?
 

Is there a compelling reason to record to a hard drive?

There are very good reasons not to do this, number one being the risk of experiencing a "hard crash" when writing to a spinning HDD platter. The head of the HDD is not supposed to make contact with the platters. The separation distance is the equivalent of a Boeing 747 flying 4" off the surface of the ocean.

Doesn't take much to foul up that critical relationship.

I used an HDD recorder while shooting aerials in a helicopter: fail. The vibrations and acoustic impulses of helicopter flight messed that up.

Also, the HDD can spew RF noise that will interfere with wireless mic systems. I've had that experience, too.

Take a look at the MxM Express adapters, and Lexar 32-gigabyte SDHC cards. Each 32-GB will give you nearly 2 hours of uninterrupted recording time. With two in the camera, that's almost 4 hours. I've been using that combination without any problems.

Re: EX1 - Recording on Hard-Disk?
 

The MxM SSD unit is the best way to go and is the solution I use myself. Fantastic for conferences as you don't need to worry about card management. No it isn't quite as small and neat as a card but it's sturdy and you get a huge capacity on ultra reliable disks. For total hassle free operation you can run the camera from the mains and you are pretty much set up for the day. Then when the time to transfer comes you plug it into an ESATA port on your Mac* or PC and you ingest the lot in one go at super speed.

Downside if of course that it's really only suitable for tripod based shoots such as conferences. No HD solution is ideal for run and gun due to the extra weight and bulk IMO.

I wrote an article a while back about using platter based HD's and even disassembled an HD to show the mechanism. If anyone thinks platter based disks are designed to be thrown or placed on top of a camera they are mad!

With an SSD you get the benefit of long recording times and no worries about vibrations or movement fouling the disk.

In short, I wouldn't be without the SSD for long form recording on a tripod, but for run and gun cards rule.




* Obviously some Macs can't do this. However adding a ESATA card to a Mac Pro is trivial and there must surely be expresscard solutions for the laptops.