VG-20 or AF100 as a b-camera to an EX1/3?
 

The 5DM2 isn't working out for me that well as a b-camera. I'm looking at alternative s-dof capable cameras. Focus and exposure assist is mandatory and I need at least a 50mm (equivalent) f2.8 or better that can autofocus on a button press. I mention the latter because it seems like so many of the glass options on these large sensor cameras lose AF and I can't depend on my b-camera operator being able to finess a manual focus camera.

How does the AF100 or VG20 cut with XDCAM?

What fast lens and/or lens/adapter?

Re: VG-20 or AF100 as a b-camera to an EX1/3?
 

You might also want to consider the Blackmagic Cinema Camera at $3000 which also includes full version of DaVinci Resolve and Ultrabox.
Blackmagic Design: Blackmagic Cinema Camera
Coming in July I believe and given the codecs it can record including CinemaDNG RAW 12-bit it might be the EX1 as the B camera.

Re: VG-20 or AF100 as a b-camera to an EX1/3?
 

VG20 is a perfect match, a bit better WB than EX series, and with http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/818649-REG/Sony_SEL50F18_50mm_f_1_8_Telephoto_Lens.html lens you will get IS and AF

Re: VG-20 or AF100 as a b-camera to an EX1/3?
 

Curiously, there is no 35mm prime lens in the e-mount stable, so you can't have exactly a '50mm equivalent' (I'm guessing at what you mean by this) -- many would encourage you to look at the Zeiss 50mm 1.8 e-mount that includes OSS, but that would give you an angle of view comparable to 75mm when compared to a full-frame stills camera. Or the Zeiss 24mm 1.8 for a lens with a wider angle of view (compares to a 35mm lens on a full-frame stills camera) but doesn't have OSS. Both these lens have full autofocus integration with the Sony e-mount camcorders.

I'm just speaking from specs here -- I have no experience intercutting with XDCam. But you can buy or rent these today, and do your own tests.

Cheers,
GB

Re: VG-20 or AF100 as a b-camera to an EX1/3?
 

I gather the e-mount lens system is like Canon where aperture is controlled by the body. The VG-20 has bad reviews in that department.

Re: VG-20 or AF100 as a b-camera to an EX1/3?
 

Les: Could you point me at these bad reviews? I'm not familiar with them & would like to get up to speed.

Cheers,
GB

Re: VG-20 or AF100 as a b-camera to an EX1/3?
 

Does e-mount even let a lens ring control the iris? If not, it throws a spanner in even an FS-100 as an option. I want a nice smooth accurate camcorder designed iris control not a stepped DSLR aperture control.

Re: VG-20 or AF100 as a b-camera to an EX1/3?
 

FS-100 over AF-100--picture profiles easier to match Sony to Sony. Panny's have a very different look. Been there, tried that with my EX1&3's.

Re: VG-20 or AF100 as a b-camera to an EX1/3?
 

Thanks Les -- it's clear he's not a fan of the VG-20.

But his review is a mish-mash of rant and falsity -- for example his claim the HDMI output is not clean is belied by every other reviewer, though I see he does include a disclaimer that the camera he looked at (reviewed would be an overstatement) was preproduction.

And I don't see any mention of aperture issues, but maybe I missed it in the read

But to answer your question, the e-mount is currently used on the VG-20 but more importantly on the FS-100 and FS-700. In automatic, the camera body communicates to the lens what aperture to use and the lens is stopped down accordingly. The stepping of the aperture is at least partially dictated by the lens design -- as you indicate, stills lenses typically are stepped more coarsely than those intended for cinema/video use. To that end, I don't know whether the current lens line-up is problematic in that regard, though no one reviewing the FS-700 has complained ...

Of interest to some is the ease of using 'legacy glass' on the e-mount -- a cheap physical lens adapter lets you put just about any mount made on an e-mount camera -- if that lens has a manual aperture ring (any Nikon AIS mount, and Canon FD mount, and Leica mount, et cetera) you simply adjust the aperture until you see in the viewfinder the result you desire, and film away. If that lens is more 'modern' and lacks an aperture control, your options are reduced but do include an adapter that allows for auto control on a Canon EOS EF mount lens, for example. Sony/Minolta lens in the 'full size' mount can be used wit an adapter that allows aperture & focus.

So to answer your question, if I understand it -- e-mount lenses can have their aperture manually adjusted by the user if they have aperture rings. E-mount lenses with auto iris can be set either manually using the camera body controls, or automatically as the camera sees fit.

HTH
GB

Re: VG-20 or AF100 as a b-camera to an EX1/3?
 

Geoff,
Thanks for taking the time to write such an informative post. I had some wrong ideas. I can see making the VG-20 into a nice little manual camera with focus and exposure assist.

Would I expect to find any lenses that support a push to AF that are not e-mount?

Re: VG-20 or AF100 as a b-camera to an EX1/3?
 

If you are looking for AF on an NEX, you are limited to e-mount lenses or Sony/Minolta Alpha lenses using an adapter. It is an expensive adapter, as it requires a translucent mirror and the hardware to drive the focus in the Alpha lenses -- it works, but you pay a price in both size and money.

Maybe of greater interest is how well the NEX system works with legacy non-autofocus glass -- the viewfinder shows 'peaking', making for an easy focus aid on any lens, and allows for a zoomed view so that with one button you see a zoomed view and peaking. Very effective in operation.

But if you want autofocus, your options are more limited.

Cheers,
GB

Re: VG-20 or AF100 as a b-camera to an EX1/3?
 

I got it. Thanks. I'm fine with manual focus and exposure operations using peaking, expanded focus and zebras. It's when I give the camera to an assistant for b-camera footage that the Push AF is very helpful in bringing home footage I can use. Some assistants need AE but I much prefer a good human to do exposure. :-)

I found this nice listing of compatible lenses for the AF-100 that shows AF and AE. There's a nice Leica 3-ring 14-50mm f2.8-3.5 which gives me a decent fast single lens solution. I like how the AF-100 has false colors built into it's EVF.
Lens Compatibility | AG-AF100 series | Panasonic

Re: VG-20 or AF100 as a b-camera to an EX1/3?
 

The AF-100 is a very good camera, and the lens options a generally more developed system than the current state of the NEX -- if the additional crop factor isn't significant, and the images delivered match up well for your needs, I wouldn't hesitate to consider it. My own usage benefits from the large sensor in the APS-C/S-35 format, and cross cutting between Sony devices -- but for those on a different course, clearly a different horse worth considering.

Cheers,
GB

Re: VG-20 or AF100 as a b-camera to an EX1/3?
 

I'm surprised you're considering those in prference to the FS100?

Price wise similar to the AF100 - but more likely to much better match your EX cameras, not least because from the same manufacturer! Tests have also shown the resolution to be not far off what the EX gives, the AF100 is considerably less. And a true video camera, not a video/still hybrid.

As I understand, one reason for getting it is to have a short dof capability. In which case the FS100 is true s35, the AF100 sensor is about half the size in area terms, so at about a stop disadvantage.

Re: VG-20 or AF100 as a b-camera to an EX1/3?
 

The FS-100 is a known quantity. I tried on at NAB last year and liked it. Still like it. I didn't ask about it because I wanted to know about the VG-20 and AF-100. They are so much less expensive. The VG-10 body is $1600 and the AF-100 are dirt cheap these days circling $3000. Meanwhile the FS-100 is $5000. So if I can get a b-camera that also gives me sDof at for $2000 less than and fs-10 well....

Re: VG-20 or AF100 as a b-camera to an EX1/3?
 

And both the VG-20 and AF100 suffer from a lot more aliasing than the FS100 due to the use of sensors optimised for stills and not HD video. An even cheaper option with very nearly the same feature set as the VG-20 is the NEX-7 stills camera.

Instead of investing thousands on a new camera why not invest in a better B camera operator or train your existing operator to focus manually, maybe get them a decent monitor so they can see when they are not in focus?

Re: VG-20 or AF100 as a b-camera to an EX1/3?
 

There's several issues I would like to solve if I could. I need a B-camera and as-is, the 5DM2, Z-Finder and 50mm f1.4 that I have doesn't perform as I want it to so I'm going to spend something.

My b-camera needs low light performance similar to my EX1R. I can get that with a large sensor camera at the sacrifice of ergonomics and limitations unless the AF-100, VG-20 or fit the bill. The FS100 is more than I care to spend to solve the problems. Regardless of b-camera operator skill, I want Push AF. The Sony A-mount 16-50mm f2.8 would do the trick except on the Sony e-mount cameras, it's restricted to f3.5 due to the AF implementation or whatever. This is an operational headache I don't want.

Between the Unified Magic Lantern for the 5DM2, an EVF and some stuff from Edelkrone, I'm going to attack the limitations of the 5DM2 and see how it goes. Thanks everyone.

Re: VG-20 or AF100 as a b-camera to an EX1/3?
 

Are you sure about those prices? I just looked up B&H and they list the AF100 as $4,495, but with a $500 rebate for the next couple of months (so about $4,000) - Panasonic AG-AF100 Professional Memory Card AG-AF100PJ B&H Photo

As Alister says, the FS100 is a camera with a sensor designed for video, the AF100 and the VG10 are both effectively making the best of sensors designed for stills. You may be saving some money, but don't think you're getting something as good, and don't expect either of them to match your EX as well as the FS100. You get what you pay for.

I'd also feel a lot happier about investing in lenses for s35 than four-thirds......

Re: VG-20 or AF100 as a b-camera to an EX1/3?
 

David Thanks. I fully understand the issues of cameras and sensors built for video. The AF100 shows up used every so often in the low $3000. I saw one here just recently. The ND filters were appealing. :-)

But the whole point of this thread was to drum out the VG-20 and AF100 issues which has happened wonderfully and I'm not pursuing them.

I have a 5DM2 which serves my requirements in ways the FS100 cannot. Ever. So lacking a better alternative, I've decided to put the money to attempt to make the 5DM2 a better b-camera.