Thread title says "First F3 footage" you guys got a better thread for me to post these in just let me know. How about "More F3 footage"?.. lol :)

Yves, I'm not getting at you nor questioning your abilities, but it has to be remembered that many people look to these forums for guidance and advice on how to improve their camera skills.

I am not a fan of auto controls. I believe that I can make better exposure judgements than the electronic circuits inside most cameras. Yes there are some occasions when they can be useful, but it is my opinion that on the whole a good camera operator can produce better and more consistent images by driving a camera manually than by using the auto functions. In addition I also believe that many people that read these boards have a very poor understanding of gamma curves, knee, detail correction, gain etc. That's why many of them come here, to learn more about this things.

I stand by my statement that DCC/Auto Knee can have a similar effect to Auto Iris. It is after all nothing more than auto gain for highlights. When it's on you have no control over it and the way it behaves. It will adjust the high light compression dynamically, mid shot if it feels necessary. Pan across a window or different parts of the sky and you will see the highlights change in brightness. Of course you can turn it on and off, but that is all the control you have.

I am surprised to hear that you use Hypergammas in a studio environment. Hypergammas will give a very flat looking picture straight from the camera. I would have thought that a standard gamma would give a more pleasing result under controlled lighting, but that's a discussion for another thread perhaps.

We don't have to agree on how to shoot a certain scene and many of the most enlightening discussions here on DV-Info have been quite hot debates over shooting methods. If you place a video in the public domain you must be prepared for both good and bad comments as not everyone will appreciate your style, as you say it's very subjective.

As David pointed out, you are the unfortunate victim of timing and circumstances. If your film had come out at any other time I doubt any comments would have been made, but it came in the middle of a raft of films tailored to show off the merits of the F3 from people that were loaned the cameras to demonstrate it's capabilities. Your stylised amateur look made your film stand out from the crowd for the wrong reasons.

Cheers Alister, thanks for your comments.

You are totally correct and yes all points well worth debating. Perhaps agree to disagree on some that's healthy debate.

One thing I can categorically clear up is that the camera was not given to us to demonstrate its abilities. We were given the camera to evaluate it and send feedback.

As I said earlier, there are plenty of videos out there that shows its potential, many are here in this thread. We were not breaking new ground, nor was that an issue, the members wanted to know what it was like to operate as-is, without tons of fancy lenses or external gear. Would it be an ok TV type camera? Could it replace our 700 fleet, given the right lenses, referring to the CMOS issues vs our CCDs. This of course being all very informal.

We are not test chart sort of people and Sony asked us specifically to not shoot any comparative tests and post them on-line as it was a pre-production camera. I am happy with that.

My theory, since I only had the band for an hour and got the camera for that avo. Weather was crap, lenses were borrowed, rain for the week, small window.. we run and gunned it. Which is why I opted for full standard settings no tweaking. Does a poor result (which is debatable and will leave that for a music video thread) deem the test a failure? Absolutely not. As I said this was not a camera test, its an evaluation, like a test drive of a car.

Our conclusion and what was passed to our members, initial thoughts were as I said... Viewfinder is sub-standard. Ergonomics is a bit rough. Function had its issues. Menu system identical to EXs Audio works fine, only two tracks of audio. Audio output is in a bad place.. outputs are RCA jacks? Who knows why. Mount and adapter is great. You can see more on my vimeo post and fb pics about our lens mounting tests at Panavision. Anyway I can go on and on. Very favorable on image - down on a few hardware bits. Sony told us that changes will be considered on future models. We are working on a full report that we will be posting.

Obviously this was not our only test. We did do other quality evaluations.

Look I can take criticism, as I said I don't disagree. It looks amateurish, which is on purpose but I was not fully satisfied with #1 the style #2 the look, as a DOP that is a bit disappointing. So taking a few risks and trying new things is pretty important. I am just checking because I know forums can be quite scathing to the anonymous.


Re: Top Model, that was a decision taken from tests, one of which I was only partially involved.

Re: DCC, yes of course you can sometimes see it, but in Reality TV, which I do a lot of.. its absolutely fine. Its not quite auto-focus or iris.. imho simply because it is much less obvious. As an operator, I bounce between on/off all day and quite a useful tool so you can see my apprehension when I hear someone not using it at all.. I presume we do different work. Perhaps you can start another thread and we can debate it there. Possibly convert me to a new way of working.

Re: Art vs Camera Tests - I didn't post my clip here, someone else did, like i said, its a bit useless without the back story if you are looking at the camera because more was learned from the failures than the wins (your best lessons are from your losses - An AllBlack coach once told me)

Cheers

I thought I was doing you guys a favor by searching for new clips of the F3. If you guys would like me to stop - done.

Erik, in my mind this is why you make these things, to put them out in the open - someone simply made the suggestion that my clip was in the wrong forum or that we were having the wrong discussion.

You guys can do what you like, say what you like. I was just being courteous and offering up more info. Personally, I found this a good resource of F3 clips.

However this is not my forum and I appreciate I am just a guest. Not sure how it operate here,

Thanks Erik, its been a good debate.

DV-Info welcomes anyone and everyone. There's everyone on these boards from total novices to Hollywood DoP's. There's no membership as such. We hope that your visit will be more than just a passing one and that you will continue contribute to the many and varied discussions we have.

Yves that wasn't directed specifically to you. I was under the apparent false impression that everyone was just as excited as me to see new clips of the F3. I have been searching daily to see the latest clips and I will continue to do so. The one thing that will change is I won't be posting them all here to share with the others.

Just saw your video on Gamma Curves - very useful and thank you. You thinking of doing a more advanced follow up? I have never seen the different looks in a quad screen like that - could be useful on other setting modes.
Cheers

I'm waiting to get some decent time with an F3 to go through all the different Gammas, detail settings and the matrix. They should be similar to the EX1/EX3. I might have to wait until I get my own as the units doing the rounds at the moment are pre-production and the settings may be different to the final units.

Glad you found it useful. I do want to explore the cinegammas and grading in more depth.

I had just never seen a quad screen like that, made the differences obvious. I have always either AB'd it or looked at each of them out of context. I reckon you could never tire of exploring gammas, so many people just twiddle knobs. Keep it up Alister, keen to see more.

Can you post a link to the video? Thanks.

Thanks much Alister :).

So, I just got my production run PMW-F3L (serial #156!) on Saturday, and since my Nikon adapter is still in transit from the UK I rented a set of LOMO Illumina primes and got crackin'.

So, production run camera, just some initial testing, and I'm pretty impressed -

Looks good...thanks for posting.

James, I now totally hate you.... Ok no I don't. But I am totally envious! :)

I hope to be able to play with one at NAB. Then comes the bigger question about how to justify the investment. {sigh}

Thanks for sharing.

Thanks very much for posting that, James. I was impressed too!

Did you do all of the different shots with the same Picture Profile or did you use different profiles for different shots?

I really like to see footage that simply demonstrates what the camera itself can do to get the "film look" in the hands of a skilled operator, i.e. without heavy grading. So the various Picture Profiles and other tweaks being used on the F3 are of great interest!

I'm happily shooting with an EX1R at the moment, but the F3 looks like it might be a fantastic tool to get that full "cinema aesthetic".

I look forward to seeing more footage. Thanks.

Really decent demo james.
Thanks!

I found James Houk's footage the most interesting. Good range of uncontrollable conditions - day with highlights blowing out in bg, not too ugly and likely gradable; interiors in club lit by stage lights and practicals, again, pretty stuff; and even a kitchen scene lit by natural light from a nearby window creating big spot of highlight but otherwise light nicely modelled across two women. So if this is just an example of freehand shooting, imagine what can be done in controlled shoot. Still, you'd have to put up on big screen not over internet before getting its full measure.

The night footage indicates DSLR sensitivity which suggests you can stop the camera down with NDs or not to set DOF to your taste.

Lot of the footage reminded me of the Canon 5D. Which basically makes me wonder why Canon hasn't just ripped the guts out of the 5D and put it in the chassis of one of the prosumer models. Why doesn't anyone ask this? Surely something like this is on the way, as surely as Sony and co are chasing the same market with the near full frame sensor cameras.

Very nice footage by Houk for sure. Almost too perfect ? Wow... unbelievable.

Canon has been very quiet about it all, but it is like that. I'm still wondering what the NXCAM HD Super35 35mm from Sony will be all about, because that is more my budget range. With Panny, Sony, Red, out there, is it possible Canon will spring something at NAB ?

From my understanding talking to the folks at the Sony dealership, that the NX cam may not be compatible with PL.

it seems to have a Sony Alpha mount. Though im not 100% what is or isnt adaptable.

Re: First F3 footage
 

Here's a finished piece I shot on the PMW-F3 this week with the MTF Nikon adapter and Zeiss ZF lenses:

YouTube - Sheen Pharmaceutical Drug Ad Parody

Re: First F3 footage
 

Is that Alex Lucas in there?

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Wait... you know Alex?!?!?!?!

(Yes, it is)

Re: First F3 footage
 

This video was shot over the course of a weekend in Key West, Florida to test the capabilites of the F3. Most of the time during shooting it was just me on foot walking the streets with the camera, a tripod, and a selection of four prime lenses in a backpack.

Lenses used:
Zeiss CP.2 18mm PL
Sony 35mm PL
Sony 50mm PL
Schneider Cine-Xenar 95mm PL

No mattebox, filters, lights, external recorders, or other accessories were used during the shooting. Most footage was shot with the HQ 1920 24P mode and recorded to SxS cards. All slow-mo footage was shot as 1280 24P @ 60 fps. Most of the nighttime shots were done at +12db. Daytime shots are at 0db.

No color grading or post-production filters have been applied. The video is straight out of the camera. Everything was shot using two Picture Profiles I'm still fine-tuning called VORTEX-A and VORTEX-L. The final settings will by talked about in Vortex Media's upcoming "Mastering the Sony PMW-F3" training DVD.

Re: First F3 footage
 

Doug thanks for posting up your video. Interesting combination of lenses.

At this point, would you mind commenting on the lenses you used. First time I have seen the combo of the Sony OEM PLs along with a Zeiss and the Schneider. I've been curious how the Sony's stacked up against the Zeiss, With you being up close & personal with them for a bit, I'd like to hear your thoughts.

Lastly, I presume you were shooting without an external monitor. How was pulling focus?

Re: First F3 footage
 

Andrew,

it's too early for me to come to any firm conclusions about which lenses I prefer. If you ask me, they all look very good and I can't tell the difference between them in most situations. It really comes down to ergonomics and other non-optical considerations. I'm leaning towards some favorites, but I'll save that for another post once I know I won't have to change my mind and eat my words.

Yes, I was shooting without any external monitor or viewfinder and focusing was not very hard most of the time. Like everyone else, I'm not satisfied at all with the camera's viewfinder, and the LCD is too hard to see outdoors, but I've gotten used to them pretty fast. Just as I did with my EX1. I may add an accessory viewfinder later after I see what's available at NAB, but I certainly don' think the camera is crippled without one. I'd gladly pay a couple thousand bucks for an adapter that would allow me to put the C35W viewfinder from my F800 on the F3. Damn, that'd be a nice setup. Besides adding a mattebox and rods (have not arrived yet) I prefer to keep the camera clean and simple. I am not interested in building a Frankenstein camera or a Rube Goldberg contraption that other people seem to accept. My motto is to keep it simple.

Re: First F3 footage
 

Today is the first time I used my F3 on a paid project. I had really done very little testing beyond basic record and playback and even though it was a fairly simple talking head, I actually brought along my EX1 in case I ran into any snags.

I was shooting in a baseball stadium and my client requested that I include some of the exterior in the background. I had neither an HMI or enough tungsten power to match the outdoor exposure. I had brought along a roll of .9 ND, but it was not enough to cover all the windows with two layers, so I let the brighter windows work as an edge light. The front light was an Omni 600 in a Chimera box with a half blue and a small white card for fill. I used a 1/2 blue rather than a full to get a little more stop out of the light.

My lens was a Nikon 24-70 2.8 at around f4.0 and it worked great with the MTF, although making exposures repeatable was difficult using a G style lens. This image is was shot without any profile setting. I shot using a Nanoflash as well as to the SXS. This result is from the Nano.

At one point during the interview, the sun began reflecting off something in the stadium, boosting the edge light above 100 ire, based on the waveform in my PVM-740, but in the blow up, the image held pretty nicely. Detail is incredible.

I've only included a screen grab as the video is not ready for release
I'll be using this camera in all types of situations and a lot of it won't be dreamy imagery. I've got to make it pay for itself.
All in all I was very impressed (and relieved) with the camera's first performance.

Re: First F3 footage
 

That pic looks very good.

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The first thing I did was try to find the moire on the jacket, but I didn't see any.

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There was no moire, Great sharpness and detail without added noise.
This was shot at +6db..

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These are screen shots from my first outdoor test with the F3. MTF adaptor, Tamron 300mm 2.8 +6db.
My location was New Jersey, about a mile from the NYC side of the river. It was 6:30 pm so it was already pretty dark. Certainly beyond the realm of my EX3. There was some noise when I pushed the camera beyond +6, but it was more like film grain than mosquito noise.

No secret it was difficult to focus outdoors, but the peaking was very accurate.

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That shot of the birds with the sunset.... Schneider yea? Thoese are nice lenses if you dont mind the funky ergonomics... Optics are nice.

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it looks good, no moire on the jacket and the nikon holds up well.

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Chuck's twilight shots to me show the utility of this camera more than the majority of the test shots shown so far.

The F3 will greatly reduce our anxiety when thrust into low lighting situations.

Thanks Chuck!

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I love the Cine-Xenars. But I can't tell you how many times I've reached for the focus, and changed the iris instead. It's happening less and less, but it's especially hard to remember when I'm mixing Zeiss and Sony lenses on the same shoot.
Like anything, there's just a bit of a learning curve as you adapt to knew gear.

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I have to agree with the learning curve. Even though I am well aware that I am using manual lenses, I have to admit that I have pressed the zoom button on the F3 more than once.

Re: First F3 footage
 

I must say that I've have adjusted to working with primes much faster and easier than I had anticipated. I don't mind changing lenses, and I don't particularly feel limited not being able to zoom. I didn't expect such an easy transition.

Tomorrow I'm shooting a test interview with 12 prime lenses (4 CP, 5 Xenar, 3 Sony) and I am very eager to see how they perform. I've got four Nikons too, but I don't think I'll have time to use them.

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That should be an interesting experience going through those lenses Doug. Unfortunate you won't have time to put on at least one Nikon. It would be interesting to see how the Nikon color space rakes up to the Zeiss. It appears the higher end Nikons have similar coatings (at least from a color perspective) to the Zeiss.

Doug do you have a 21mm Compact Prime in the kit you'll be using tomorrow?

Re: First F3 footage
 

I'm talking more about issue with matte boxes and follow focuses, cause the damn things walk so much. Optically great, but just a pain to work with....