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-   -   Highly Informative Video on Lens for PMW-F3 (https://www.dvinfo.net/forum/sony-xdcam-pmw-f3-cinealta/499468-highly-informative-video-lens-pmw-f3.html)

Peter G. Johnson August 10th, 2011 09:06 PM

Highly Informative Video on Lens for PMW-F3
I've recently watched a ten minute video on MacVideo about the F3. It is by Rick Young and is highly informative, mainly to do with its interaction of different lenses (eg.) Adaptimax. He's an excellent presenter!

MacVideo - Camera Technology - Features - Shooting with the Sony PMW-F3 using Canon EOS lenses and Adaptimax converter

Andrew Stone August 11th, 2011 05:45 PM

Re: Highly Informative Video on Lens for PMW-F3
Thanks for posting that up.

Rick Young was one of the first people to break the news of the Sony F3 getting some of the some of the first clips of the F3 in it's pre-release state and getting a good interview out of the Sony Product Manager on the F3. With all the promotion he has given Sony on this camera, Sony should give him one with the PL lenses so he doesn't have to suffer through using his Canon glass on it.

His reportage is very good and worth following.

Doug Jensen August 11th, 2011 07:04 PM

Re: Highly Informative Video on Lens for PMW-F3
I especially like the part where he recommends controlling exposure by changing the shutter speed. Yeah, that's great advice. Give it a try, you'll love the look!

(just in case you can't read between the lines, I'm being sarcastic. That is some of the worst advice you can take)

Warren Kawamoto August 11th, 2011 07:47 PM

Re: Highly Informative Video on Lens for PMW-F3
But isn't changing the shutter speed or using ND filters the only way to control exposure with these lenses? The Canon L lenses do NOT have aperture rings, F stops, or any means to open and close the iris manually. Everything is done electronically, but he said the contacts don't work. I'm assuming that with these lenses, you're also shooting wide open all the time, with no means to stop down?

Doug Jensen August 11th, 2011 08:05 PM

Re: Highly Informative Video on Lens for PMW-F3
Yes, adding ND filters is the right way to control exposure if you are using a lens that does not allow proper aperture control. However, cranking up the shutter speed to control aperture is always a bad idea because of the side effects that will cause. Obviously, there are some creative reasons you may want to use an extreme shutter speed if you purposely want to get that "look", but he's not talking about that. He is suggesting that you use shutter speed to control over-exposure -- and that is just plain wrong.

An even better solution (for a professional) would be to select a lens that actually allows you to control the aperture, rather than using an inadequate lens just because you happen to have it already laying around the house.

Alister Chapman August 12th, 2011 05:11 AM

Re: Highly Informative Video on Lens for PMW-F3
One of the key issues with using the shutter to control exposure is the coarse 1 stop steps, so accurate control is near impossible and you can see this in some of the clips where highlights are blowing out or the shot is just generally a little under exposed. A half stop would probably have brought these back to the correct exposure. The other issue is that you can't change exposure mid shot.

A variable ND is the best compromise in this case, until Birger or someone else brings out a mount with electronic control.

Rick is a UK Sony ICE.

John Cummings August 12th, 2011 08:29 AM

Re: Highly Informative Video on Lens for PMW-F3
Ok, I'll bite. What's an ICE?

Chris Hurd August 12th, 2011 09:07 AM

Re: Highly Informative Video on Lens for PMW-F3
ICE = Independent Certified Expert. This is Sony's classification for their cultivated
team of professional-level customers, end-users of Sony gear who have been recruited
by Sony to assist with manning the booth at trade shows and various field events. Canon
has a similar program, as does Panasonic but to a lesser degree. These folks are not
considered employees but they are independent contractors who are paid on a daily
basis for these occasional gigs. They were already highly knowledgeable when they
were brought into these programs but receive additional technical training each year,
especially prior to major product announcements and industry events such as the
NAB and IBC expos. A number of them are regular DVi members and I greatly
appreciate their presence here.

Andrew Stone August 12th, 2011 09:24 AM

Re: Highly Informative Video on Lens for PMW-F3
I think most of us know that using shutter speed to control exposure is a bad idea. Not sure why he felt the need to pump this Adaptamax adapter to the point where he was giving not so great advice. Having said that he has done a lot of good public work in the past so I don't think he needs to go through the shredder. Point out the failings of what he is suggesting and move on.

Doug Jensen August 12th, 2011 03:54 PM

Re: Highly Informative Video on Lens for PMW-F3
I hope nobody is accusing me of putting someone through the shredder. I just pointed out, for the benefit of those who don't know better, that adjusting shutter speed to change exposure is a bad idea. If that is putting someone through the shredder, then so be it.

BTW, I have been a Sony USA ICE member for 5 years.

Leonard Levy August 12th, 2011 09:39 PM

Re: Highly Informative Video on Lens for PMW-F3
The work arounds for using Canon EOS glass are absurd from my point of view. If you've spent $15K on a camera spend a few more bucks and go Nikon until the Birger adapter comes out. Then you can sell your Nikon glass if you like.

Dave Sperling August 12th, 2011 09:57 PM

Re: Highly Informative Video on Lens for PMW-F3
After reading the reviews, I just watched the video. My impression was that he was really speaking to those who were looking for a place to move beyond their problems with 5D/7D/T2i systems - and hence had both constrained budgets and an existing assortment of Canon mount lenses. Of course his video also seems to predate the FS-100... Overall, I didn't feel that exposure control by shutter was being suggested more than other possible available alternatives - such as built-in ND's, standard ND filters, variable ND's, negative gain, etc.- whether mentioned or not, The key point was that it was actually possible for him to go out and shoot using his existing Canon mount lenses.
Admittedly, exposure control by shutter speed adjustment is less than ideal -- but I also find the lack of control of being forced to shoot at a specific f/stop all the time (in this case wide open) another creative limitation. Yes, soft backgrounds are nice, but sometimes I want to be able to 'control' the amount of DOF by using the iris to determine how much depth of field I actually want, which could be more than the minimum DOF. I suppose in my case I'm lucky that I never got rid of all my old Nikon primes... (and that they're all old enough to still have iris rings)
I also have to admit that there have been times where, as an operator with XDcam or older DigiBeta cameras, I've used the shutter to limit the light and allow me to open my lens a little more for a softer background behind talent doing a standup, particularly as a 'quick fix' where all other available options had either been exhausted or are simply not available. (Or conversely I may reduce my shutter speed slightly if I'm already wide open and suddenly lose a little bit of light, though the F3 is quiet enough thad adding a little gain may not be out of the question either)

Steve Cahill August 13th, 2011 05:15 AM

Re: Highly Informative Video on Lens for PMW-F3
Recently placed a order with Rule-Boston camera for the Birger solution for F3 for use with Canon glass, which has not been released yet. Will be of interest just how I like the difference between the Nikon, Zeiss glass to the Canon glass.

Ideally would like to have one set of glass when traveling solo with F3 and 5D.

Leonard Levy August 13th, 2011 01:14 PM

Re: Highly Informative Video on Lens for PMW-F3

For what its worth, If you want to have one set of glass for Canon and F3 its way easier to do it with Nikon glass for both. Nikon adapters are cheap and easy for EOS. Many used Nikon lenses including excellent zooms have iris rings and many of the zooms can be parfocal. Plus the adapters for both Canon and F3 can incorporate mechanical iris mechanisms so you still have iris control. By contrast using canon glass on an F3 is a nightmare.

If you're using the Canon lenses in manual mode on the Canon then there is little downside, tho you do lose IS.

I have noticed the sub $100 adapters for Canon that I've tried tend to not maintain perfect backfocus though so you may lose parfocal quality in the zooms.

David Chia August 14th, 2011 12:33 AM

Re: Highly Informative Video on Lens for PMW-F3

Originally Posted by Doug Jensen (Post 1674591)
I just pointed out, for the benefit of those who don't know better, that adjusting shutter speed to change exposure is a bad idea.

I've seen alot of ENG news shooter doing just that during an interview (live mostly), They open the lens all the way , and use the N.D, however, when it is not enough to control the blow out they use the shutter.

So is this wrong to try to get a shallow DOF during an interview with a standard fujinon zoom lens on a 2/3 chip shoulder camera?

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