Darksides of MagiqCam Series IIa
 

Hi,

so I finally almost decided to go Animagique way. Still I am confused about lots of dark sides of this low-cost rig, so I would like to ask you, dear members of DVINFO.NET community, if you could write down to this single thread all darksides that you found and were not satisfied when setting up and flying this rig.

I checked lots of previous threads about MagiqCam here, found lots of bad things that make MagiqCam semi-pro rig (hope that they are already fixed), but I guess that there will be more bugs. I don't want to spend money on a rig until I know all positive and in this case negative sides, regarding this stabilization system.

I would more likely buy Steadicam Flyer of course, but still it is kinda expensive for me. So I decided to buy this cheaper system, get some experience using it, and then in two or three years go for something more expensive. But, if MagiqCam isn't worth it, I would more likely wait one or two years till I make money and buy some professional rig.

Thanks for your time, hope this thread will be useful for more users!

Martin

Hello
I have a Series IIa and I love it I know there was a problem with the gimbal, but that has been fixed. I personally didn't have any problem. It is easy to set up and I had my flying in no time. I had never used a stabilizer before and I thought that it would take me a while to learn but it didn't.
It does take at least 5 weeks to get your rig but its worth the weight. These are not homemade by any stretch of the imagination.
I hope this helped a little.

No offence Sarah, but I think you are a bit closer to MagiqCam than a normal customer. Every post you have submitted has been suspiciously supportive or defensive of them, you even were the first to inform us that he would be at NAB.
Lets stop trying to help flog his rigs and let a "real" customer give their opinions.
Like Ed Liew who looks like he has been pretty much deserted my MagiqCam in recent times.

I would have a look at a range of rigs before you decide "to take the plunge"

Just because I am for the little guy, I am acused of being a plant or more than a normal customer? Okay.
I was asked to post about NAB because doesn't post on most of the boards, because he is too busy. I didn't know it would put me in the plant category. I have become friends with the guy, so sue me.

is a good guy and has a good product. He does try to help all his customers. He doesn't turn his back as you have assumed by one person's testimony. Its funny that in all the rigs that has sent out, one person says that something went wrong, so now his product is a piece of junk.

Thanks Richard for you warm welcome for the newbie.

So you are closer to MagiqCam than a normal customer, thanks for clarifying that.
Therefore you are going to convey a biased opinion about the product. I’m suggesting that Martin investigates other systems available to him.


"Thanks Richard for you warm welcome for the newbie." Wouldn't mind if you contributed to the forum, but you are only ever here to defend and promote MagiqCam.

Martin,
You have probably the thread regarding my gimbal problem and that it appears to have been resolved. As far as performance of the Magiqcam IIa goes, I have not flown any other rigs, but, now that my gimbal is fixed, this one seems to work pretty well. Before I bought one, I compared all of the other rigs that I could possibly afford and there just didn't seem to be much of a difference. The Magiqcam seems to be built as well as the other sub-$4000 rigs and it clearly is the least expensive. Of course, durability could always be a problem, but it comes with a 2-year warranty and, as you probably know, they took great care of me in a very short time. That being said, it did take 9 weeks to receive the rig. I guess that they are a small company trying to keep up with all the orders.

Bottom line, from what I can tell, the Magiqcam IIa is a great value. Does it require more or less practice than any other comparable rig? I don't know, but for what I'm doing, I think it is only going to get better the more I use it.

I think Charles Papert got a look at one and said that he felt that it was comparable to any of the other rigs in the same few thousand dollar range and of course he's a pro.

Hey,maybe Charles P. would like to take mine for a demo and write a review one day? Maybe incorporate some of it into his training video? Since it seems that many of us buying these are new to the stabilizer world, it would be really great to see what a pro could do with one.


Matt

Hi Matt,

I have suggested multiple times regarding to this issue. I doubt if Charles P. has the energy to cover all stablizers on sell? I don't know if any legal issues if Charles P. put bad comments relating to the device in his training video.

People spent thousands of dollars to buy that device. It is lot of money. The manufacture should do their best and put a full resolution 720x480 29.97fps demo video on their website or DVD to showcase the performance of their device. The manufacture know their device well enough to operate it than anyone else. It is their job as the money in the end go to their pocket. I found it is useless just got some picture to show how nice the device looks like with some pretty woman carrying the device. Can you bring the woman with you home if you pay the price they listed? ;-)

I found some demo video try to make it 320x200 15fps, even inside that small screen, some try to fuzzy the corner of the video screen, or make that small screen display four different video same time, or just show the operator to operate the device with little video about using the device take a shot. Some don't even put a demo about the device on the net. Some demo shaking video, but praise that same video how stable is and I can't believe that happens.

Regards
Leigh

Leigh,
I'm sure Charles is quite a busy guy and he wouldn't want to be seen endorsing one product over another. I was just thinking that it would be great if someone like him could show us newbie's what the potential of a lower end rig is.

I agree with you about the demo video. Frankly, it's not a very good business strategy to not show the potential of your product, or worse, show it off poorly.

As you guys have guessed, yes, I'm not all that interested in becoming the stabilizer reviewer guy. When I see a product that I think is head-and-shoulders above the competition, such as the Flyer arm, I might give it a nod.

My upcoming video will have multiple manufacturers and types of rigs represented as I think it will help viewers understand that there are skills that are common to any of these rigs. I do feel that unless there is a specific limitation to one of them, or a specific advantage, the resulting footage from any of them should be virtually identical. I agree that it is strange that some of them don't have any footage on their websites, or questionably operated footage; but I wouldn't recommend buying a particular rig just because they seem to have the best demo footage. A great operator can make a better shot with a mediocre rig than a mediocre operator with a great rig.

Finally, I do feel that 30 fps (i.e. full motion video) is important to make Steadicam shots not appear jerky, but I personally feel like I can easily judge the steadiness of an image at 320x240. Perhaps it has something to do with the fact that I've been composing Steadicam shots for a long time on a 5" monitor (ten years ago it was a 4" screen--and prior to that, 3"!!)

hi all,
the magiqcam i'm having is pretty good in term of workmanship as compare to some others which i have seen. performance, i guess it take a lot more practice. certain part of the design is not very practical but i think john will have it improve one day as he has been doing.

as most of my posting here is problem with their after sales service. if john were to have settle to my problem very much earlier, i think, you will not even notice any bad comment on magiqcam here in this forum. just my luck for geting all the not so well made parts.

i would not make an recommendation here as i don't think i qualify to do so. i would be bias.

ed

Charles,
I understand what you saying and I really appreciate all the time you spend to help folks like me in this forum. Thanks very much.

After only a few hours of stabilizer operation, I can say that I truly can appreciate what your comment. I am anxious to see your training video to see what the potential is, even for the lower eschelon rigs.

Matt

I met with John from Magiqcam as well as Charles P. at NAB. Gee I can't believe how many people Charles knows and who know him as well.

I was able to see John's new arm for heavier cameras. It looks like it's built well and has a dual adjustable socket block which is very helpfull - especially for use with the heavier cameras.

I was interested in the new single articulated arm from Verizoom. Priced fairly low as well.

The Smooth Shooter was a good addition to the Glidecam line. They needed it for their handheld rigs (that's why we built the Indicam originally).

The "Steering Wheel" from Bogen-Manfrotto was very interesting but I have my doubts that it does any real stabilizing though.

The flyer was very nice and light enough to not drive me crazy. I threw a tape in, hit record, then walked around a bit. The shots look real good.

I still like Hollywood Lite's dual arm unit.

MK-V had the neatest new product for big rig guys. It stays level no matter how you tilt the sled from side to side. It can be locked for dutch shots though. Howard and Walter have some great stabilizers and vests.

Our Indicam rig performed well with the DVX-100a. I was able to walk around for five hours in the rig in spite of just getting over a serious lower back pinched nerve thing. I felt fine after the five hours for which I am very greatful.

Back to Magiqcam...John is very accomodating and helpful and his rig is well made. I think he has the gimbal linearity problem fixed so I don't think there is any reason to not order one. Coming from somone who will be selling a stabilizer as well, I don't think I'm biased.

Tery

Hey Tery. Sorry it took so long for me to reply...2 months lol.

Thanks for that clip, its very smooth, horizon is nearly always level A+ :D

Keep safe, talk to you soon.

Terry, can you tell me if this is a replacement for the IIa or an upper level version (I've heard the model IIIp mentioned somewhere)? What is the working weight range?

I'm all set on buying the IIa but I'd be kind of upset if I could have waited a few months more to get an improved version for a few hundreds more. Not like I'm in a hurry anyway.

Indeed the IIIp sounds very interesting. I'm still trying to make my mind up about which rig to get.

It would be great if the Magiqcam was made modular so it could gradually be upgraded with MK-V or Steadicam parts. Thats one thing that puts me off the current system. For example if I found a good price on a genuine used Steadicam arm, or on a Steadicam vest (there's one on Ebay right now), it would be nice to be able to swap out the existing Magiqcam arm for the Steadicam one.

Surely such a thing can't be too difficult? Shouldn't it just be a case of making the mounting points compatible?

Same goes for a gimbal.

Making the Magiqcam modular and upgradable with Steadicam and MK-V standard parts would make it the definitive starter system.

Simon:

The Flyer is the first attempt I've seen where a small-format stabilizer can work along an upgrade path to a larger one; the arm mounting socket block is compatible via 6 screws with the full-size Steadicam vest (you swap socket blocks). This was to allow owners of big rigs to use the Flyer as a "running rig", while retaining their favorite vest.

This would be fairly easy to implement on other rigs. A 1.5" post wouldn't be too far out of the question either, but it would require retooling and redesign of the gimbal and other parts, which is significant.

Top stage compatibility is also really easy--4 screws.

Yes, the redesign would be a pain for the designer. However I believe that the effort would be worth it in the long run.

At present the Steadicam Flyer would only just be able to handle the weight of my camera, and it still costs more than the Magiqcam. I feel naked without my Glidecam! So I need a system that will support my current camera but not put me any more into bankruptcy than I am at the moment ;)

A modular Magiqcam would be just the ticket. Some of the MK-V parts are very reasonable in price IF they are bought on a bit by bit basis as one can afford each stage. Its just getting an initial usable base rig that is the problem.

No word as yet on the Glidecam V35. Most pictures out there are from NAB 2004! I wonder if it will ever be released.

At this rate I'm going to be so out of practise by the time I get a new rig!

Hi Simon,

I manufacture stablizer and I see no point to make it modular. Low price rig to US$4,000 and a vest cost US$8,000. An arm cost another US$8,000. How you justified that?

If to make it modular, why not make it excellent performance to get more money?

Regards
Leigh

I don't understand fully what you are saying.

If a system is modular it means that a user doesn't have to fork out in one go for the expensive stuff. Their system can get better as they progress. The MK-V system would not be as successful as it is unless Steadicam users felt that the modular system was a good way of doing things.

Just a little update.

I just heard back from David Stevens at Glidecam. He said that the new V35 should be available in July.

The V35 is one sexy looking rig!

I mean that it is not cost wise to implement that feature "modular" for manufacture and buyer. I would rather spend money and resource to improve the performance of my rig to compete with high end rig i.e Tiffer Steadicam Ultra and sell my rig inexpensive to the buyer and make it affordable. There is no point to sell a device A which demonstrate footstep shaking in the video and hope buyer in future progressively upgrade their device A to another manufacture's component B which single arm/or single vest brand new one will cost four times as device A which is the whole rig's price.

By the way, in stablizer business, second hand goods does not necessary translate to very cheap price. It still costs you an arm and a leg.

Regards
Leigh

All I'll say is that if modular systems were of no use the MK-V system would not be as popular as it is.

Leigh, you seem to have something against Magiqcam. Any shakyness in a video is mainly down to the operator not the rig. You should know that.

Hi Simon,

I don't think so.

Regards
Leigh

I did not against any manufacture. I just suggest the feature which is important, which is not in my view.

Regards
Leigh

May I ask you why you consider MK-V is more important than Steadicam? I think Mr. Brown invented Steadicam in 70s and should get some credit. I think Mr. Brown is brilliant. ;-)

Regards
Leigh

You think that the rig is more important than the operator??

Again, I don't think so.

I think both are very important. First the stablizer must be good and that is a must condition. Second great operator will make shooting an art and that requires the operator years of commitment.

Regards
Leigh

Leigh, I don't mean to "have a go", but you seem to want to answer all these questions as if you know what your talking about. You’re only new to the stabilizer business and your already challenging a professional camera operator. The same has been said to you over at SteadicamForum. Learn a bit more before you start to tell professionals what is right and what is wrong.

Anyway, I'm opting for a modular rig. I’m buying second hand and cheaper components and I will upgrade my system as finance allows.
Apart from vibration due to cheap machining, amongst other things, the majority of the cameras ability to isolate itself is drawn from the gimbal and the arm. Any other bits on the sled tend to just to help the erganomics.

Hi Richard,

You are welcome to tell me anything I said is wrong or misleading. I am willing to learn from you.

Regards
Leigh

Yes he is brilliant. But brilliant though he is I'm not going to mention him in every post I make just because he invented it. His rigs are also rather on the expensive side and are difficult to order.

Second, I never said MK-V was more important than Steadicam. MK-V is fully Steadicam compatible and is in use very widely around the world. Those systems have a lot of respect. Further to this the Alien Revolution system developed by MK-V will possibly be the most important development in Steadicam design since the original Steadicam system itself.

As a customer who needs a new rig I'm looking at all the options. The Magiqcam looks great for the price. The Steadicam Flyer is too light for my needs, and the next model up is far to expensive. MK-V allows me to upgrade over time. However buying the full rig may still cost around the same as a full Steadicam system.

At the moment, assuming that the rumoured retail price is correct, I am more and more inclined to go for a Glidecam V35. From the specs I have seen it has full fore and aft arm adjustment, a two stage arm based on the Gold series design, but with new mods, and a really nice looking sled with adjustable monitor angle and internal wiring. Looks to me like it will be the best bang for the buck at this stage. I hope it lives up to expectation.

Might be worth mentioning that the MK-V kit is compatible with earlier generations of Steadicam gear, but not with much of the recent line, which has been designed as a single unit which locks out most 3rd party gear. The PRO (GPI) gear is also compatible with much of the earlier Steadicam stuff. Some things have stayed pretty constant, such as the arm mounting socket block (for full size rigs), but posts now come in 1.5", 1.75" and 2" sizes depending on manufacturer, etc etc.

Even a 1.5" post is probably overkill for a 5 lb camcorder, however.

In a sense I think I do agree with Leigh that compatibility is not an issue for a large percentage of users of this level of gear--if they do not see themselves moving to 2/3" cameras or film gear larger than a stripped down SR2, they would probably be better off with a system that is designed efficiently for just that smaller weight class, and is as cost-effective as possible.

Leigh, I think that it's a good thing that you are focusing on making your rig vibration-free. However, to expand on Simon's point, a good operator can hide the inadequacies of a flawed rig, and yes, a bad operator may somehow find a way to make an acceptable rig look bad.

Years ago I field-tested the Master Elite system when it was just becoming available. I had a sit-down with Garrett where I pointed out the issues I had with various facets of the design, which included vibration in the stage that was causing me issues with the footage. Garrett met most of my points with "huh--I haven't found that to be the case". Finally, I suggested that his level of expertise and years of overcoming issues with prototypes were likely to smooth over things that were stumbling blocks for me. He conceded that this could easily be true.

Many of Garrett's shots in "The Shining" are still stunning to this day. However, that prototype Model 2 was, by today's standard, a near-junker and would likely not produce good results in the average operator's hands. I've always loved the Aston Martin DB5 (from the old Bond movies), but I hear that it's a bitch to drive if you are used to modern vehicles.

Hi Simon,

I did not mean to be offensive to you.

Regards
Leigh

Hi Charles,

I agree with that. But do need lots of effort.

Regards
Leigh

great debate guys. everything still comes down to this, you get what you pay.

ed

Indeed. Although looking at the V35 you might just get a little bit more than what yyou pay, equipment wise. We shall see. Suffice to say I'm very excited! On many shoots I have done in the past a stablising device has really meant a big screen look on a low budget. I'm very keen to get back into the swing of things and up my game somewhat, except on slightly larger budgets :)

Its a shame that Glidecam don't run workshops in the UK, although there was one guy a while ago who was thinking of setting some up.