Advice for my First Stabiliser
 

hi all,

Never used a stabiliser before but I'm interested in buying one as I think I could make good use of it for certain projects. I've been recommended the flyer but at $6000 its prob a bit too much, more looking to spend between $1200-$2500, new or second hand.

here's some info which may help to give me advice:

1. i'm quite tall, 6'6"

2. the current camera I own & would be mostly practising on is the Sony PDX10 but for some projects i'd be renting either a PD150 or the HVX200 when its released.

3. preferably something which isn't too difficult to repair (my workplace has a machinist so making certain spares could be done), since i'm in australia I don't want to have to send my rig back & forth.

thank you, happy new year to all...

Hi James,

I manufacture stabilizer.

Here is a video I shot using my stabilizer. The camera is jvc gy-dv5000 which weighs around 6.25kg. My stablizer also works with panasonic gs400 which weighs around 600g.

wmv format encoding with 2mbps
file size around 26mb
http://www.salenz.com/movie/www.sale...2_31_2mbps.wmv

wmv format encoding with 500kbps
file size around 7mb
http://www.salenz.com/movie/www.sale...12_31_500k.wmv

You can watch other videos by clicking my signature video links.

Regards
Leigh

There is also the GlideCam "Smooth Shooter" that is in your range. The V8 might be too. (I've worked briefly with the V8 and liked it but I'm not nearly experienced enough to make informed comparisons between say GlideCam and SteadiCam). I just stumbled across the ad for the Smooth Shooter and liked the price.

I do know that if you use a gimbal stabilizer and especially one with vest and spring loaded arms that you should be prepared to not only spend money but a lot of time practicing. They are weird and somewhat counter-intuitive to use but give great results.

While the pros sometimes dismiss the weighted post type without the gimbal, like the SteadyTracker, I'm looking into them for the short camera moves partly because of budget and also because as Director-Camera Op-Gaffer-Editor-3D and Motion Grafx guy I've got only so much time to learn and keep up so many skills. Then I start to read Charles Papert's and others posts and their enthusiasm makes me think, maybe I really should spend the money and take the time...

James, I'd say go for the Smooth Shooter and a Glidecam 2000 Pro. It's a pretty good rig, and definetly very nice for the money. It isn't a perfect rig, but it does offer a lot of flexibility, and once you learn it, a lot of those same skills can be used on more professional rigs. It'll serve you well, and also you can detach the arm and vest and fly the rig handheld.

As to the height issue, the vest should be able to adjust to that extreme. I have problems with that myself being 6'3 and built like a football lineman. I'm lucky in that I'm designing my own rig from the ground up, so I'm building a vest that's the right size for me.

Also James, I'd say take a good month of practicing on a daily basis before you critique your shots too much. I learned this the hard way when I took my first arm-supported stabilizer on a shoot a week after I built it. The shots will be okay, but certainly not as good as they can be.

Leigh - I understand that you want to try and sell your rig, but I'm sure your rig would be above his budget.

I'm (partially) sorry Leigh, but, enough allready!

When you have a rig to sell, them come sell it (and even then, these boards arn't designed for free advertizing). But the way you are going now, empty promises of a rig with no details, it's quickly becoming vapourware. When you actually have something contructive to offer, more than just your practice videos, then offer it, untill then, quite hijacking threads.

Ok, sorry everyone for that rant, I jsut felt it had to be said.


Now, James;

The Flyer that has been sugested is a perfect option for the PD150 and HVX200. However it will need aditional weight for a camera as light as the PDX10 .. I have tried a PDX10 on a Flyer at a demo, we had to add a lot of weight to get it to balance at all, and it was still light. Pictures here if you are interested: http://personal.inet.fi/yritys/filmi...adikokeilu.htm

The best Steadicam for the PDX10 is the Steadicam Merlin. It will also fly the PD150 fine, even with a few accesories, and also the HVX200 (without accesories).

Either rig will work for what you mentioned, however without knowing more about what type of shooting you will be dooing it's hard to make a exact recomendation. The Flyer would give you the most options, but the Merlin may very well be all that you need.

Lukily how tall you are doens't have any effect on the purchase of most stabilizers - as long as the vest fits, not normally a problem. (You can be sure Any standard size Steadicam vest will fit, Garrett Brown, invetor of the Steadicam, is very tall and all the vests fit him. :-) )

Unfortuanly all stabilizers are rather omplicatred and most self-repairs are not advisable, especially anything that needs spare parts. But if you buy a rig from someone with a good service record, repairs will not be a problem.

Let us know a little more about what type of use you are planning for the rig and we can give you more helpfull advice.

- Mikko

James - there you go, another quite viable option, the Merlin. I'd say either of these are quite good rigs, and it's now up to you to evaluate which one suits you best.

Good luck with your future stabilizer!

Hi Mikko,

James asked for candidate. So I offered him a choice. He said that he never used a stabiliser. So it is no point to show him a metal item. Does that stabilizer look nice in paper will shoot steady picture?

If he watched the video and thought the stabilizer does not shoot steady video, it is no point to urge him to buy it. Don't you agree?

Customer want choice. The best decision is made by himself by compare it.

Of course I don't expect you to agree what I said.

Regards
Leigh

Hi Tom,

I am pretty sure my rig is in James's budget.

Regards
Leigh

Leigh,
How much is your rig? where can I buy one? (I've asked all these questions before.)

Once you rig is avialable, then I'll be happy to recomend it as an option if it's any good. Untill then it's just not an option for someone who is looking for a rig to buy. These are the wrong people for you to try and hook with hype about your supposedly forthcoming rig.

You haven't, and probabaly won't get my point. But the others who read this thread have, and therefor I've said enough.

- Mikko

Hi Mikko,

You can't get Steadicam merlin several months ago. Does that mean it's just not an option for someone who is looking for a rig to buy?

I just simply don't want to the customer order the rig and don't know the date they can get it. I want to offer my customer once they pay the money, the goods will be delivered the same day by ups/dhl.

Regards
Leigh

Leigh, your rig is not in anyone's budget because it doesn't exist... At least nobody can buy it (yet).
And anyway, as Mikko said, stop hijacking the threads! It's really annoying to say the least. People are smart, they can read old threads, so be sure they already know about your rig, you don't need to mention it each time. When are you going to understand that?

Quoc

I have a Varizoom Flowpod/Sportster (gimbaled sled, with single-section sprung arm, vest, low-mode kit, cases) that I am interested in selling.

I

Thanks for all the advice everybody...

I'm wanting more of a rig with vest that you wear, not just the bar like the Merlin, unless does the Merlin come with a vest?

At first I just plan to practise with the rig, then once competant i'll start paying off the rig by doing real estate house walk throughs, seems like a decent way to generate some income to pay it off. But i'd also like to do moves like walk/run down stairs whilst following a skateboarder doing a trick. Just generally following people, perhaps even in rough terrain.

Also I might also be renting a Canon XL2 so hopefully a rig that can handle that too. I guess an ext monitor would be good or do people just use the camera screen? I'm assuming an ext monitor would be a big help because then you can mount it in front of your legs so you can see where you're walking as well as looking at the ext monitor because the camera might be too high, correct?

The Merlin is certainly mcuh more than a bar! But, it does sound like the Flyer would be the best rig for you.

If you are planning on dooing more "rough" work with it, running, stairs (both! [be carefull!]) then you will definatly want a rig with a dual articulated arm - that's 2 sections with springs. It will tolerate the bumps better and give you much more boom hight for chaning the cameras, or your, level. Running with a one-section arm rig isn't always so smooth.

A rig with a monitor is advisable because, as you note, the monitor on the sled is definatly advantagious to your field of view. Looking down you see the groudn and the picture together. - it also alows you to operate aroudn the rig more - an on-camera LCD will limit you to beeing on one side of the camera.

Another option, as you will be renting cameras is to also rent the rig. - But this doe make practice dificult. If possible go somewhere and try out a selection of rigs, see what you like.

- Mikko

Thanks Mikko,

Yes, definitely renting makes sense, as I generally rent cameras when I need a better unit (I only own a PDX10) but the problem is my location... Nobody as far as i know rents any steadicam equipment here in Perth.. I believe there are very few operators here also....

Thats why i'm trying to research as much as possible.. Even then i'll be taking a small gamble by having to order from the U.S. to see whether the rig is suitable...

Yes The Flyer seems the way to go but the $6000 price tag is probably too much as a beginner. Sure, later on when I get more competant i'd go for something like that but for now, even if its only 6-12 months i'd like to go for something cheaper even if it means not being able to do running or going over rough terrain. I could probably even push up to $3000 now....

As Mikko suggested the Flyer; I think you should find a rental house that rents rig and see if they have a flyer to rent. When you do you will then see the marvel of the flyer that I and everyone have been talking about. I tested it last spring and I'm still raving about the arm. You just have to test it to understand the feeling. Trust me on this.

I have to agree this is probably the case. the Flyer must be gold.
As for the Merlin. you will get tired. I would suggest the Smoothshooter, for the price. You can do long shots, but it is not like having a two spring arm like the Flyer.
I just got the smoothshooter and for the price I am quite happy.
(I wich there was a way to upgrade/replace the static arm with another double arm - I think it would work, but Glidecam wont get back to me on that)
Try them all out,
Good luck

Thanks for all the advice guys....

So is this the rig that you'd recommend?

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/cont...ughType=search

Or the Flyer: http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/cont...goryNavigation (plus batteries)

- Mikko

The flyer looks great & has been recommeded too but it is out of my league for now... but i'm sure this will be my second rig....

Whats the difference between the V8 & Smoothshooter?

The V8 has a bigger and bulkier arm which in my opinion isn't too great, and also it had a more uncomfortable vest if I'm remembering correctly. Supposedly the old vest was restrictive of an op's breathing. Not good.

The Smooth Shooter will do well for you until you can afford a Flyer, but once you use the Flyer, you'll see the light.

Another question, does the smoothshooter vest make the glidecam 4000 more steady or is it more to be able to use the rig for longer periods?

Let me shed some light on this issue. Like any hand held stabilizer out there, that goes for the mighty steadicam too. Without the help of a full body stabilizer you will get tired after a while. Personally that will make your camera operations more prune to shakes due to tiresome hands.

The vest system simply reliefs that tension with the a help of the arm. Simply put, you cannot use the arm without the vest and vice vesa. Personally the vest system out weighs the hand held system any day, unless you are only going to do very short takes, then the hand held is okay. But for long term operation, nothing beats the vest system - Hands down. Now Mikko can contest to that ;)

Charles,
I suspected that was the case but just wanted to make sure, thanks...

It might be worth mentioning that the handheld stabilizers allow a certain amount more flexibility in that you can continously fly the lens from over your head to a foot off the ground, where a body stabilizer will give you three or less feet of vertical travel (half that if the arm only has a single articulated section). In addition, being more compact a handheld stabilizer can be used in a confined space like a car, and it can be flown over and under objects such as a table more easily than a body-mounted system.

Otherwise, the fatigue factor usually points to a bodymount system, as Charles K. and others have said.

Well Charles P. beat me to the punch, but I'll chime in to agree to what both he and Charles K. said.

A vest system is far superior for most operating as it takes the weight for you and lets you concentrate on controlling the rig and not carying it.

However a handheld system will be more flexible for some shots.. There is infact an interesting accessory called "buddycam" that allows two people to operate a big rig 'handheld' - so this does also have it's benefits on rare occasion.

- Mikko

mmm...my Buddycam lies rusting in my storage space, having last been used perhaps 10 years ago...but it was a good shot, flying inches off the deck over objects and following feet.

Just out of curiosity Mikko/ Charles P. , does the budycam sell well or just so-so? Personally it's not something I purchase regardless of it's intention. Ah well, that's me I guess. Rather put the money into upgrade or more accessories. :)

The guy who made my Buddycam has passed on, not sure who makes an official one anymore. A lot of guys made them out of speedrail. It's pretty elemental so I would imagine that for a homebuilder, it's a no-brainer.

For those who haven't heard of it, a Buddycam looks like a set of bicycle handlebars with a mounting spud set into the long horizontal section. You mount the gimbal onto the spud and then two people carry it from either end, with one (or a third person) operating the rig from the post. Like a "shakeycam", it will smooth out most bouncing and the gimbal will correct the angular pitch so it usually looks as good as a regular Steadicam shot. The main advantage is that with the rig in low-mode you can get the lens right down on the deck and conceivably have the two grips lift it up over their heads all in one shot--there's something like this in "Copland", moving up Stallone's body. It's also handy in case your arm or vest explode and you need to keep shooting.

I wasn't going to post these, but as the topic veered towards Buddycam..
Here's a couple of pictures of Buddycam at a Steadicam workshop in 2004:
http://mikko.n3.net/photos/flying/pa...1_SOA2004.html
and
http://mikko.n3.net/photos/flying/pa...2_SOA2004.html
..Pity my hand is obscuring the gimble mount, but you get the idea.

I think that Jerry Holoway is still dooing some development work on buddycam.

- Mikko

I know that this is an old thread but I would recommend the Flyer hands down. It's the superior tool out of all the other choices. You cannot go wrong with a STEAICAM FLYER.