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-   -   Starting your own business or keepin' that 9-5 staff position? (https://www.dvinfo.net/forum/taking-care-business/123339-starting-your-own-business-keepin-9-5-staff-position.html)

Shawn McCalip June 9th, 2008 01:04 AM

Starting your own business or keepin' that 9-5 staff position?
 
For all of you entrepreneurs and freelancers out there:

What made you decide to go out and run your own business?

What was the tipping point that made your mind say "No more of this 9-6 stuff!"

Did you decide to run your own business after months or years of painstaking research- or was it more of an impulse decision?

By starting your own business, what sorts of lessons did you learn the hard way? What are some of the pitfalls you've encountered that made you go "Boy, I wish someone would've told me about this!"

Conversely, have you had experiences that were easier to deal with than you had expected?

Has anyone started a partnership with a fellow co-worker or colleague? If so, how do you like working with a partner as opposed to working solo?

Hopefully all these questions won't dissuade some of the more seasoned folks on here from contributing. I'm hoping that other members of this forum will get as much out of this thread as I would like to.

I'm tossing this 5-gallon bucket of questions out there to gain some insight and to see what other people's experiences have been like living in the wild/ nerve-wracking territory of freelancing and sole proprietorship. As for me, I'm currently working full time for a small production studio. I was initially extremely excited to be in this position, but as the months have passed by, that excitement has faded. It's been a great learning experience, being a different environment from the TV station I used to work at, but some of the lessons learned haven't left the greatest aftertaste. I've learned that I'm pretty good at what I do, but the boss-man is the one who reaps the vast majority of the reward. Yes, I'll get kudos and pats on the back, which is nice- but I can't get approved for a mortgage or fill up my gas tank with "Good job, Shawn!"

So, I'm hoping to shed a little light on this whole "going into business for myself" thing by learning about people's firsthand experiences in this industry. Thanks!

Mike Meyerson June 9th, 2008 04:31 PM

In the past, I worked for some bigger companies...like The History Channel, A&E and Screen Gems...and that wasn't for me...(sucked actually). The only way I'd recommend staying at your current position is if you're learning a lot and/or if you have REAL potential to move up the ladder. If not, than look for something else, weather it's working for someone else or not.

The last company I worked for was a smaller production company. I grew tired of making $$ for someone else...and doing all the work. I was there for maybe 6 years(?)...my old boss didn't know how to take care of his employees, didn't believe in benefits other than 2 weeks vacation a year, and even then, he'd complain about having to pay for time not spent working. He ended up getting a divorce and moving about an hour away from the office, so he'd show up less and less...I was basically running the show (without a raise).

So me and a co-worker offered to switch to freelance, set up an editing room in my house (with his Avid) so he could shut down the office and work from his home. We partnered up and started a production company so at least the risk was shared. After a while I didn't want to freelance for him anymore (wanted to go in my own direction), so I split up with my parter, bought my own Avid and an XL-1. When word got out, a long time client jumped ship with me and after 8 years since going on my own, he's still my client (so that made things easier).

Working for myself is made easier because my wife has a good job with a good health plan. Also, I have a couple freelance connections, so I do a lot of freelance work around my own productions to keep the work steady. This year has been REALLY quiet as far as getting my own clients, but I've had a ton of freelance work to keep my busy.

Being self employed is great when you have plenty of work, but tough if not. So the biggest question you have to ask yourself is...where is your work going to come from.

One thing I wish I could have done from the start (and would still be REALLY into doing...hint...hint, anyone reading)...is get hooked up with a really good cameraman or producer, director, DP, whatever...someone with existing clients that couldn handle ALL the production work, so I could just focus on the post-production end of things (I enjoy post more)...I think that would make things easier (assuming the work is there).

One of the things I do miss about working for someone else is JUST working 9-5 (usually)...when I'm busy I find myself working crazier hours and weekends when needed.


Free free to email me with any questions...good luck.

Don Bloom June 9th, 2008 10:00 PM

I have been self employed since 1971 and frankly I wouldn't have it any other way. 12 years as a still photog and 25 in video. Good times, bad times but always up to me. I don't work or play well with "bosses" so for me it was a no brainer. Got out of the service, back from overseas and HAD to be my own boss. My gut would turn upside down thinking about working for someone else.
Of course in this industry there's always a 'boss' BUT I mean as a W-4 employee. I'm an independent contractor and I do mean independent (especially as I get older). I choose who I will do work for and who I will not. I choose the jobs I want to do and those I do not. It's my business and my choice and I wouldn't have it any other way.
But that's just me.

Don

David W. Jones June 10th, 2008 06:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shawn McCalip (Post 890222)

I was initially extremely excited to be in this position, but as the months have passed by, that excitement has faded. It's been a great learning experience, being a different environment from the TV station I used to work at, but some of the lessons learned haven't left the greatest aftertaste. I've learned that I'm pretty good at what I do, but the boss-man is the one who reaps the vast majority of the reward. Yes, I'll get kudos and pats on the back, which is nice- but I can't get approved for a mortgage or fill up my gas tank with "Good job, Shawn!"

So, I'm hoping to shed a little light on this whole "going into business for myself" thing by learning about people's firsthand experiences in this industry. Thanks!


Word of advice... Going into business without a business plan and clients still equals no mortgage and an empty tank of gas!

Nate Haustein June 10th, 2008 06:51 AM

Why not both?
 
I work both a 9-5 job and a small home production business. But then again, I'm crazy, and a college student.

I started working with 2 of my high school filmmaker friends, once we figured out we could start making money from all the "favors" we had been doing for people. We just did it on an impulse, with minimal investment (less than $5K between us), but since then have become more serious in the matter of owning a business, and grown in capabilities and clientele.

Lessons? Lots, I learn something every day. Couple things for you: back ups, back ups back ups. Always have lots of redundancy if things go wrong. Also, keep really good books right away so you don't have to go digging through everything come tax time.

Working as friends has been good for us I think, as we're not hesitant to speak up for our ideas and opinions. Make sure that you're comfortable spending long hours with them though - video work usually doesn't come at regular intervals.

I'd say take the plunge, the experience is well worth it- but don't quit your day job just yet.

Annie Haycock June 10th, 2008 12:14 PM

Being freelance is like riding a roller coaster, and you have to take the bad alongside the good. It helps to have a partner/spouse with a regular income.

I started out wanting to be a stills photographer, but met a lady who was then probably the only full time (female) nature photographer in Britain. She said you'll never make a living from nature photography alone, you need a sideline, or some kind of value-addition to your work. I went back to school, got a degree in animal behaviour and ecology, and spent the next fifteen years either too busy earning money to do any photography or too poor to afford any film. At last I've now been able to afford up-to-date digital stills and video equipment, but I just don't have time to use it much.

The work I am doing most of the time started out as an interest, then someone started paying me for it, then legislation came in (here in Europe) that meant I have lots of work - I'm fully booked for the next three months and turning people away. I don't enjoy it much - not any more, not since it's taken over my life. That's a really difficult thing about being freelance - you start with dreams of doing things you want to do, when you want, etc etc, but if you're really good, or desperate to earn a living, it can take over and you end up in a similar situation to the one you are trying to escape from by being employed. Only escape is even more difficult.

I want to retire, I want to do photography and video at my leisure, but it's not likely to happen any time soon. Next best thing is for my husband to retire from his job, and take on half the stuff I've been doing, leaving me some free time for what I want to do. But the way work is escalating, we'll both end up working double time. Finding that work-life balance just gets more and more difficult if you can't just shut the work off at 5pm and know you won't have to see it again til 9am (or whatever hours you want/have to work)

Mark Nicholson June 11th, 2008 02:52 AM

It has been very difficult for me the past two years. Most of my life and frustration deals with either getting people to pay, or getting them to pay when the checks are bad. Then you have clients that promise you enough work for the next six months, and then fall through. Then you have clients who want to pay you less every time you work for them. Best of all, I've had a client that I did mockup AE work and a proposal and I later found out my idea was farmed out to a high school student who did an amazingly bad job with my idea.

I love the freedom, but nobody likes paying for it.

Shawn McCalip June 12th, 2008 05:45 PM

Excellent! Thanks for all of your replies so far!

I completely understand the post about having a business plan. Ideally, I'd like to create my own material to sell on DVD and eventually Blu-Ray, and then produce some commercials in between to keep the rent check steady. Of course, in my mind, it sounds much easier than it actually is. Incidentally, I found a cool website called www.nolo.com that has a bunch of cool articles and FAQ sections about starting up various types of businesses. Nothing related to video production, but more of a nuts-and-bolts explanation of things like C-Corporations and LLCs, Break-Even Analysis sheets, and other important details like that.

Overall, it sounds very difficult, but the reward can be great if you're willing to give it all you've got. Let's see what other forum denizens have to say!

Joe Sonnenburg June 12th, 2008 09:19 PM

I've been my own boss for the past year. I graduated from college last year and still live at home so it makes the whole financial thing a little easier. However, I do wish I had someone to work with. Things can get pretty lonely at home with nobody around (especially when you don't have much work). I've done some freelance web design work with one of my friends and it is so much more fun to have someone else to work with.

Annie Haycock June 13th, 2008 01:43 AM

Joe is right about having someone to work with, or even just to talk about video - or even just business problems - with. For those of us who live in the sticks, or in a small town, it's much more difficult to keep the enthusiasm going when you are isolated from the world. This forum is a great help, but humans are meant to be social animals and face to face contact with like-minded individuals is important. I've been on a couple of video courses and got more from being about to talk with people (other students as well as the tutors) than from the actual course content.

Nate Haustein June 13th, 2008 10:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Annie Haycock (Post 892417)
...having someone to work with, or even just to talk about video - or even just business problems -

or spellcheck! :)

Kevin Myhre June 17th, 2008 11:16 PM

Wow it's so great to hear from people that are running their own business. I too am currently in school and trying to figure out what I'm going to do when I'm done. I'd love to work from home but I know that's a big leap for just starting out. How did most of you get started and find your first clients? I'm at least one of the fortunate ones who has a wife that makes enough money so we're comfortable either way.

Mike Meyerson June 18th, 2008 07:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kevin Myhre (Post 894782)
Wow it's so great to hear from people that are running their own business. I too am currently in school and trying to figure out what I'm going to do when I'm done. I'd love to work from home but I know that's a big leap for just starting out. How did most of you get started and find your first clients? I'm at least one of the fortunate ones who has a wife that makes enough money so we're comfortable either way.

It's not such a big leap to work at home when you're just starting out...that's the way to go...no office rent to pay. I'd say unless you have a lot of contacts or you're REALLY good at networking, try and find a job when your out of school...get your feet wet, make some connections first and go from there.

Shawn McCalip June 18th, 2008 06:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nate Haustein (Post 892593)
or spellcheck! :)

Yes! Having someone to spellcheck or even just to bounce ideas off of makes a huge difference. Ideally, I think I'd work best in some sort of partnership with someone who can be creative/imaginative, but doesn't do the exact same kind of work that I do. I would think an arrangement like that would be good for keeping creativity levels high and some of the giant egos somewhat deflated!

As far as working from home, on the one hand, I think it would be great. I could write off my office space, and not have to pay extra rent or lease space. On the downside though, I don't want to have to bring lots of clients to my home. Also, home is where I go to relax or to get away from work, so it could be challenging at times to stay focused or to not get completely burned out.

I've heard people scoff at the "home-based business" idea because they don't consider it a "serious business" for whatever reason. I don't see where some folks get that opinion, since I know of several people that run very successful businesses from their home. The only thing I can think of is that some people consider it a status symbol to have a fancy office someplace. While having a separate office sounds appealing, it's an extra expense!

Annie Haycock June 19th, 2008 01:15 AM

One of the first things I did when we moved into this house was to designate and kit out a room as "my office". So far as possible, I try to keep all work stuff in that room and nowhere else in the house. If I find any of my husband's stuff here, it gets moved out - or it will just get buried under my piles of papers.

Working at home is much easier if you have an office that is obviously separate from the rest of the living areas of the house, rather than just a desk in the corner, etc.

It doesn't guarantee that I work "normal" office hours. Other people seem to think if I'm at home they can chat on the phone for half an hour at a time when I have deadlines to meet. And my husband seems to think I do nothing but twiddle my thumbs all day as he expects me to take on more and more work.

And I do tend to gravitate back to the office when he is watching something on the TV that bores me.

So you do need to be disciplined - keep work stuff in one place, and work only a set number of hours a day (or a week if you need flexibility).

Don Bloom June 19th, 2008 04:53 AM

having been both self employed and working from my home since 1971, I can say the most important thing is to be disciplined about your work. It's easy to fall into the dark hole of morning TV and saying to yourself, 'I'll just watch this program and then get to work editing' or whatever you need to do.
As for not being considered a serious business because you work from home...perhaps 20 years ago but today there are so many home based businesses and even some of the top 500 have people working from home that I haven't found it to be a problem. AAMOF, most of the video and still people I know over the last 10 years in particular work from home.
You have to set aside a dedicated area that is just for business, office, viewing room, whatever and again be disciplined and very importantly, if you treat it a serious business so will everyone else.
Some years ago I knew a news freelancer whose office was his car. That's it. No home office, no building, no nothing but him, his camera, his scanners,his cell phone, his car and of course his list of people to call at all the network affiliates. He made a whole lot of money and was considered to be on of the best news video journalists around. In his car.
Pretty serious stuff. He did OK. Treat it like a business.

Don

Philip Gioja June 19th, 2008 05:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Don Bloom (Post 895465)
I can say the most important thing is to be disciplined about your work.

I think that's the key right there. A lot of people I know like the idea of setting their own hours, being their own boss, etc, but don't have the self-discipline.

I've been in transition for a while, building my own business while working my 9-5, and I'd say the discipline of it is the hardest thing. Right now I get up at 5:55, edit until 9, jet to my day job, work until 5, come home, eat, spend some time with my wife and kid, start working again around 6:30, and usually work until 10:00 or 11:00. I take Sundays and Wednesday nights off, and that's pretty much it.

There've been many days where I've been dead tired by the end of the day and wondering if it's all worth it, but I feel like the rewards are there and worth working for.

Kell Smith June 25th, 2008 02:37 PM

Regarding working from home, I agree that it takes discipline and setting aside your workspace. I'm not always great at the discipline part - but I start the day with a day planner and go from there.
The big problem working from home is that your work chases you and it's always there. I found it necessary to create a separation. Since my apt is small and had no second bedroom or suitable area, I set up working space in an armoire that can be closed to make it go away. Before that, it was an open corner desk that you see when you wake up at 3am and it never went away. Which isn't really efficient because your time isn't segmented - you work a little here, a little there, or continuously and it turns into one long stream rather than a segmented workday.

I too have a friend who is able to talk on her job and will call and chat for two hours - so I'm learning to not pick up the phone when I have something scheduled to do and to call her back after working hours.

And that morning TV is a killer so I really watch that - start my day with CNN and a bowl of cereal, but then force myself to turn it off and focus on my plans for the day.

Sometimesit's helpful to get physically out of the house - go on a drive somewhere else, take the day planner, and get focused on what needs to be done - physically going somewhere else helps to break up that endless stream mentioned earlier.

I'm still gettting the marketing part down about the business -having some difficulties with that right now - and I have a second business that is helping to get me by - but I hate that and want to make the transition.

Don Bloom June 25th, 2008 05:18 PM

setting a daily schedule is very important and lot of it depends on what type of person you are. What I mean is, I.E., I['m an early morning person. I generally start editing by about 6:30-7:00AM and am usually done for the day by 4PM. I take a lunch break about 12 or 12:30 and use that time to clear my head. I also return social calls then. Thank goodness for caller ID. I also work into my schedule my "play dates". I'm an avid golfer (not good just avid) and schedule that in every Wedsnesday AM EARLY Tee time. So then I adjust my schedule to fit. If I'm out of town as I was last week for 5 days I adjust around that and then I will sit down when I get home and pound away until I'm where I need to be. While rendering I answer emails, do paperwork etc. For me it's important to keep to a schedule but I also remain flexible with it. For instance, my daughter -in-law had my 3rd grandchild on Tuesday about 1AM. While I was there my wife was so I knew I'd be going to visit in the morning. I worked for 3 hours then went to see my new grandkid then went back to the office to work. I workked a bit later to make up the time.
Discipline yourself but be flexible. Don't lock yourself in - keep the flexibility in the schedule you need to 1) make the business work and 2) not go down the dark hole of all work and no play. Maybe it's my age but if I don't play a bit I go nuts and get very cranky. My wife doesn't like cranky and after almost 40 years with her I figure I'd better keep her happy or she might not renew my contract ;-)
Be FLEXIBLE!

O | O
\__/

Don

Mick Haensler July 1st, 2008 07:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Don Bloom (Post 895465)
h It's easy to fall into the dark hole of morning TV and saying to yourself, 'I'll just watch this program and then get to work editing' or whatever you need to do.
Don

All right all right....I'm going!! Just one more post..

Mick Haensler
Higher Ground Media

Annie Haycock July 1st, 2008 07:45 AM

On the other hand, you need to rest your eyes from the computer monitor for ten minutes every hour - my rule is no food or drink anywhere near the computer, so I have to go to the kitchen to make and drink the coffee or whatever, maybe switch the TV on for a while so that I'm focussing on something further away.

Oh for a few more hours each week so I could spend some time on photography/video stuff instead of just sneaking into this forum from time to time!

Mike Meyerson July 1st, 2008 07:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mick Haensler (Post 901474)
All right all right....I'm going!! Just one more post..

Mick Haensler
Higher Ground Media

yeah...that's my downfall...the internet (when I should be editing). I think if I were paying rent on an office, I'd stick closer to set hours and stay more focused on work while in the office...save the internet time to when I got back home.

Edward Phillips July 1st, 2008 08:03 AM

This is a great thread! I work both the freelance side and 9-6 side of videography.

Freelance: You're often the "out of the box" opinion businesses look for. You're the expert and your ideas and suggestions are often highly valued.

9-6er: It doesn't matter that you're an expert. You're an employee and your ideas don't matter. Just do what you're told. But if your ideas are good you won't get credit.

Freelance: You often have to play many roles, the videographer, editor, marketer, accountant, and sometimes the collection agency. If you're weak in any of these areas then your business suffers.

9-6er: You're one thing, and that's it. No matter what you still get a paycheck.

The best advice I can give is that you need to know both worlds. Expierence is the best advertisement. If you go into business for yourself, find a niche. Wedding videos may be a saturated market in your area but maybe no one is doing corporate stuff or little league games, etc. Research will help you realize what looks to be the best path.

Mick Haensler July 1st, 2008 09:19 AM

Hey...for all you guys and gals working at home that "occasionally" fall into the procrastination rut, how about a daily "get yer @#$ in gear motivational thread!!!

Mick Haensler
Higher Ground Media

Dennis Stevens July 17th, 2008 01:33 PM

I was in a presentation at the regular 9-5 job today. All about the latest Oracle database management tools.

During the presentation I kept thinking that if some magical guide appeared and said 'Dennis, this crap is what the rest of your professional life will be about.' then I would respond, 'Thanks for the tip. I'll go slash my wrists now.'

Oh, I exaggerate, but one of those days.


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