Financial Question...
 

Okay we all know that pretty much everything in DV is extremely expensive and sometimes extremely overpriced. So, my question is, how do you folks pay for all this stuff? Is it all credit cards or do you pay cash or what? I was thinking about applying for a credit card just so I can buy a new camera, and then cancel it as soon as its paid off. Good idea or no?

Why do you need a new camera?

I'm starting to get work flow now. I need a second camera, and something better than my trv950. DVC80 is what I'm purchasing. Also, I'm gonna start shooting short movies and having only one camera is going to be a pain.

Getting in debt for something you don't need is, ofcourse, a bad idea in general. But if you have the cash on hand, paying with a credit card can speed payment (not having to wait foe a check to clear) and sometimes offer a level of "buyer protecton." Some offer to double the mnft warrenty or internet fraud.

You have to shop companies and make sure they offer what you need.

aahh okay I getcha. I dont have the cash on me. But I know that by using a credit card, I can make the monthly paymets easily. Saving up the cash and dishing it out all at one time just seems painful to me.

Watch that interest rate! Unless you can pay it off early you'll pay dearly. I don't pay the bills at my house but I know you could pay double for that camera if you paid the minimum over time.

What's the interest rate now, 28%?

Not the best.
Any camera you buy will likely be out of date before you pay down the credit card. Especially if you buy right now with several HDV cameras in the works. :(

Is this camera purchase purely for personal use or do you hope to get paying work with it ??

If it's personal use, get a low-end camera from ebay to shoot with for a while and save up to buy that killer camera when you've got most of the price saved up. Besides, HDV will be more widely available by the time you've got those funds saved.

If you're looking to get some video work, you're actually ALSO better to get a low end camera to practice with on your own. Rent a good camera when you're ready to shoot a demo, and rent again for any jobs you land. In my area pro-sumer 3CCD miniDV cams are available at $75/day ($400/wk) and Professional cameras are around $250/day ($750/wk). These costs can be rolled into the price of your services and usually even covered by requesting a deposite from the client.

Certainly something to consider, anyway.
I've just recently worked my way out from under a hefty pile of credit card debt and personally would never use one for a major purchase again. My side video gigs have more than paid for every related purchase (in fact most of the procedes last year went to paying off old credit cards :) ). I only just got a GL2 at the end of last year, purchased with money from an website development gig. Prior to that, I had an old Hi8 and little Canon ZR25. I borrowed and rented DVCPRO cameras for client shoots.

For months now, I've been drooling over the idea of getting Combustion for my compositing work, but it's a no-go until I have the money in hand. Probably still a month or two of saving up to go.

BTW: Most movie work is done with single camera shoots. Only the big big budget stuff gets multiple cameras. Working with one camera will teach you to smarter and better organized with your movie shoots. :)

Good luck.
Have fun.

I used a no-interest credit card offer to get a used Betacam deck but I made sure I had the income to pay it off before interest started kicking in.

I also use a mileage credit card for other purchases but that gets paid off in full every month to avoid interest fees.

Professional video equipment costs far too much to expect to save up before acquiring it. There's the quandry of needing equipment to earn a living to make enough money to get the equipment needed to earn a living to make enough money to get the equipment...

That's where credit is required to start the cycle. But before that you have to develop a realistic business plan to ensure success. The other option is renting the equipment needed to do the job, but that sometimes works best if you have a client who is capable of covering the overhead. For longer self-funded projects it may make more sense to acquire the equipment if total costs end up being the same -- especially if you sell the equipment afterward.

Dean Sensui
Base Two Productions

The camera will be for personal and business uses. The problem with buying a lower end camera is..well... thats the whole problem in itself, its a lowend camera. Which the whole point in buying the new camera is to upgrade from the trv950. Its just not cutting it for the stuff I want to do. DVC80 isnt all that much. I just figured it would be easier to credit it than just pay cash straight up. I dont understand how all you folks with multiple xl1s' can pay for it. Dropping 4 grand on a camera is just rediculous to me. So how do YOU guys with the multithousand dollar cameras afford/pay for it?

Small personal loans through my credit union with very low interest is how I purchased most of my equipment.

Rent.

I had over $50,000 in gear at my last "big" shoot.
That was mostly in the form of a pair of DVCPRO rigs with tapes & support gear.

Only cost me $500 to use and my post production fees to the client (which only cost me time) were many times that. The client's 1/3 downpayment alone more than covered the gear rental.

I "sold" the client using a demo video shot on the little ZR25 that featured some compositing and special effects. At the pitch meeting at the client's office where there was no TV, I pulled the ZR25 out of my pocket and showed off the video played back right on the camera's LCD. If I had shot that original demo on a more expensive camera, it wouldn't have made a single difference in that meeting. :-)

Have fun.

Dustin,
Keep in mind that for many people here the cameras and other gear are investments in their business. That is, they earn some or all of their livelihoods from the use of this equipment and they expect a financial return on that investment, as you would from any investment. In the realm of professional equipment, prosumer DV equipment is dirt cheap. A professional standard-def camera will easily cost $15,000-25,000 without a lens (add $6,000 - $22,000), viewfinder (add $1,500+), 12v battery power system (say $1,500-2,500), deck ($2,000 - $15,000+), and so on.

But viewed through the lens of a personal or family budget, this gear certainly appears rather costly when there is no firm business plan (i.e. income production) associated with its purchase. It's just like, say, a large boat. You might like to have a luxuriously appointed 50 foot yacht for your personal enjoyment. But the $3mil price tag might seem pretty steep. But if you planned to start a charter cruise business with that same yacht, the price might seem reasonable when viewed against the income it will facilitate.

<<<-- Originally posted by Nick Jushchyshyn : Rent.

I had over $50,000 in gear at my last "big" shoot.
That was mostly in the form of a pair of DVCPRO rigs with tapes & support gear.

Only cost me $500 to use and my post production fees to the client (which only cost me time) were many times that. The client's 1/3 downpayment alone more than covered the gear rental.

I "sold" the client using a demo video shot on the little ZR25 that featured some compositing and special effects. At the pitch meeting at the client's office where there was no TV, I pulled the ZR25 out of my pocket and showed off the video played back right on the camera's LCD. If I had shot that original demo on a more expensive camera, it wouldn't have made a single difference in that meeting. :-)

Have fun. -->>>


Renting is a good idea, however it wouldnt work for me. I shoot everyday. I'm also traveling alot when I shoot. I need something to own and keep for myself and do what I want with.

I think Nick's real message was not a suggestion to rent. His message, as I read it, was that the real asset involved is -talent and ability-, not the camera.

Hmm. Maybe I could just sell the trv950 and deal with the single dvc80 for now. It will be tough, but if I could only use one camera, I would much much rather have the dvc80 over the trv950. Its just not cuttin it for me. I figure I can maybe get a close price if I sell all my gear along with it....

trv950
lowepro mini trekker
sony .6x WA
circular polarizer
nd8
uv
azden sgm-x mic
sony 3 watt light
2 batteries (1 stock, 1 upgraded)


How much do you think I could get out of this?

Thanks for the nice thought Ken, but ... well ...nah, I was just talking about renting vs owning as a way of not getting into debt. :-) (You're correct though, in that the one asset that matters more than anything (to me anyway) is the skills that you develop and apply to your work.)

Renting works for me (but I don't do "big" shoots that often) and, after going through years and years of stress digging out of a credit-card hole, I just get a twitchy when I hear people saying the same kind of things I was thinking when I first used a card for an investment purchase.

My own situation is totally different though, and may not be applicable. If you really shoot all the time... 1) I'm jealous. 2) It certainly would be more rewarding for you to be using the best possible camera.

The operating word, though is "possible" and how you define it, and what risks you are willing to take to extend it. These are uncertain times, and all I really recommend is that you evaluate the importance of THIS camera right NOW vs. having that credit available in a time of need (or maybe some other opportunity!)at some unexpected time in the near or distant future.

On the bright side....
For me, working towards saving up for gear has resulted unexpected benifits too. Without combustion, I've resorted to writing my own plugins to add color difference keying and de-spill operations to my NLE. Now I understand these processes much better than if I just had a tool that erased them magically corrected by some automated tool. Now when challenging shots come my way, I'm better prepared to handle them.

It's all what you make of your situation. Sometimes not having the best gear in the world challenges you to grow, be more original and become better at your core craft.

Best of luck with your decision and work!
Have fun!

trv950's seem to be selling in the $1500-$1800 range.
The other gear just goes with it to make your auction more attractive that all the others.

Have fun.

<<<-- Originally posted by Nick Jushchyshyn : trv950's seem to be selling in the $1500-$1800 range.
The other gear just goes with it to make your auction more attractive that all the others.

Have fun. -->>>


I did a little researching and found out that all me gear together is $2020 new. How much do you think I could get out of it used?

<<<-- Originally posted by Nick Jushchyshyn : trv950's seem to be selling in the $1500-$1800 range.
The other gear just goes with it to make your auction more attractive that all the others.

Have fun. -->>>

Oh okay ignore that last post. I misread what you said.

I put my DVC80 on a credit card, but I knew that I could pay it off -- both from the commercial work using the camera and from my day job.

I see nothing wrong with purchasing your camera on a credit card, if -- in the *worst case scenario* -- you know you can pay it off in a timely manner. In my situation, "worst case" meant "if I never get another ad job again and have to pay it off via my day job" -- which would have been easily done had that happened. The question is, can you say the same?

PS -- I say "Don't sell your other camera if you don't have to!" Having two (or more) cameras is a great thing and one day you'll wish you still had that TRV... (of course, this comes from a guy who owns an old 486 PC and 4 TRS Color Computers!)

Dustin...

I'd agree with John about the strategy behind putting the camera on a credit card. Knowing that you will have an income stream to cover the payments in due time is essential to avoid piling up interest costs. While the equipment is tax deductible, consumer interest fees aren't.

When I got a Betacam deck it was based on the income history of the previous two years. There was enough coming in on a regular basis to pay for the deck over several months, plus it was at zero interest.

My current system (cameras, lighting and editing setup) was also acquired gradually starting from 1997. In the beginning some of it was paid for with funds from my day job. But as time went on equipment I acquired was completely covered by freelance income.

I would also agree with the recommendation of keeping the older camera. Should something happen to your new camera you'll have a backup available. If your area has rentals available then that may not be a serious issue.

Dean Sensui
Base Two Productions.

The rule of thumb is if you use the equipment regularly, buy. Otherwise, rent.

Since you said you use it weekly, renting is out of the question.

buy EVERYTHING used. Cash money! Save receipts, expense over 5 years, resell asap. Plan projects well and be ready to buy needed things as soon as cash comes in. Just don't overextend. Also charge enough, or include enough added value to afford necessities.