Film Permits: Your Experiences?
 

I've had a horrific time trying to get film permits in Pinellas and Hillsboro county Florida. The staff are a burden, they want $1M in liability insurance (You're a student? Go away!) and for me to pay for X amount of off-duty cops. Also, I refuse to give a copy of the script for THEIR APPROVAL. What if they disapprove? Will they refuse the permit?

What horror stories have you had trying to get a film permit?

The $1M liability insurance thing is pretty standard. Actually, as a student it should be easier for you. The people that really get hosed are the little guys, who don't have a studio or large production company behind them. As a student, your college/highschool should have insurance that you can use for your production - this is usually a standard thing.

Other than that, it should be pretty smooth sailing. I don't think my area's film commission asks for script approval or anything like that, but I'm sure they're trying to make sure you're not making porn. They're also possibly trying to determine from your script if you actually need proof of greater than $1M insurance, because if your script has any pyrotechnics, etc., they require double or more insurance. They also need to know about parking concerns where you're shooting, and police and emergency staff you may need. This is all understandable, but if you're like me, it's overkill for our little indie projects.

The actual frustrating thing when working with film commissions is that usually you're dealing with people who have their hands (and minds) tied by state-level red-tape. For example, I remember suggesting very politely that they would get a lot less people illegally shooting if they just set up some connections with insurance companies so that the filmmaker doesn't have to go hunting. And perhaps even finding ways to stop letting low-level indie filmmakers slip through the cracks - but I was just told to take it up with Tallahassee.

Houston film commision (Rick Ferguson) is a pretty good guy. He'll let you know who to talk to for different permits. The city is okay, you don't have to pay except for using city parks. You need to hire an off duty cop if you are in a street, which makes sense. The city worked with us in parking downtown, securing meters for low cost, and bagging them in advance. Stuff like that.

The million dollar policy is pretty standard anywhere.

Actually, I'm not a student, I just asked the local film commission if students were exempt. They said no.

Students aren't exempt because, no matter how you slice it, dead is dead!

The liability issue applies to everyone. Someone can be injured on your shoot just as easily as someone on a multi-million dollar epic.

Remember that most of these film commission people spend their work week indoors, talking to all manner of lunatics. With all due respect, to them, you are just another voice on the phone...and a voice with NO money to boot!

Sometimes, if your scenes are quick and not very involved, (and I'm not advocating this), it is easier to do "hit-and runs" with your cast and crew.

Always remember: It's easier to beg forgiveness than to get permission! (You didn't hear this from me)

RB

And the single best piece of advice that helps me to no end... have at least one police officer friend with whom you can pull favors. Remember - who is it that enforces permits? The po-lice! If you're in with the cops, you're in with the law.

Also, in my town, if you're shooting documentary or news style footage, you don't need a permit.

Hey welcome to sunny Florida, where the bureaucrats have taken over in every sense. It's not just film, and it's not just out-of-staters. But when you have a state where half the people are retired, and the other half are from somewhere else, governments and non-accountability have run rampant. OTOH, we do have a lot if sunshine.

Try to find an elected official and see if they will help you.

I'm from the Pasco county. Just above Hillsborough/Pinellas county. If you want to shoot "Downtown" scenes, just hit Tampa early on a Sunday morning. It's like a ghosttown.

If you keep it down to a dull roar and shoot fast, I really can't imagine ANYONE here seeing you and giving a damn about it.
Here in New Port Richey, there was a 35mm film camera sitting in front of a local pub pointing at the street and everyone just ignored it. Including me.

If you do get stopped, lie. Tell them your shooting a home video just for fun. Tell them it's for an art project. At most, I think they would just tell you to clear off. I would go with the "ask frogiveness" approach around here.

What really stinks is that Florida, one place you figure would be on everyone's top-10 list to film at, has no indie permit exception like some other states.

Shooting in a public park or public beach is illegal, even if it's a home video. The worst law of all is the one that says no one, NO ONE can shoot a beach at night. WHY?

Unwelcome, useless laws.

If I didn't like so deep in the middle of Florida, I'd gladly cross the border to Georgia, pay $15 for a day permit and go crazy.

I'm no legal expert -- far from it -- but I just can't imagine how such laws can survive in America? Is it really true that it is illegal for anyone to take videos (and presumably still pictures as well, then???) in public in Florida? How can it possibly be that a state government makes criminals of virtually every citizen...after all, who hasn't shot pictures or a video out of doors?

Not as a legal opinion, but what I think of as common sense: if you're out in public and not impeding anyone else from going about their business, the state has no business regulating/inhibiting a person's harmless pursuits. Whether originally well-intentioned or not, such a law could easily be construed as one of the seeds of oppression.

Hey, though, if this is true -- there may be an up side! All the beautiful people can go running around naked on the beach for our viewing pleasure. As long as nobody in the vicinity has an "imaging permit" there is no solid proof of public nudity! (Deny, deny, deny!)

;-)

WTF?
 

Rob and Peter,

All due respect to both of you...HUH and WHAT THE HUH?

I live in Florida and have absolutely NO idea what you guys are talking about.

Home videos? Shooting a beach at night? ILLEGAL?

C'mon people, you can't be that gullible. I guess now we need carry permits and security clearances for our home video cameras!

Please enlighten me and tell me where to find this law...in writing...on an official site, or is this just another, blown out of proportion conspiracy theory?

A very confused and troubled, RB

P.S.

Peter, we do have clothing optional beaches here in Miami, so I don't think that is really an issue. ;)

<<<-- Originally posted by Rob Yannetta :
Shooting in a public park or public beach is illegal, even if it's a home video. The worst law of all is the one that says no one, NO ONE can shoot a beach at night. WHY?

-->>>

UH OH! I shot about an hour of footage on the beach and about 30 minutes in a park in Orlando!!! WHere do I turn myself in? What type of fine/jail time am I looking at?

I shot video in a hotel swimming pool while drunk, after midnight, after hopping a fence too... I hope my cellmate is pretty.

DEAD MAN SHOOTING!!!
 

I don't know Dylan, as cute as you are, all the other inmates on Cell Block C will be battling for you!

Shooting a pool drunk and after hours...you could ride the lightning on "Old Sparky"!

RB

Hey Rick,

Yeah, I lived in Florida in the early '90s and managed to stay out of jail doing much more foolhardy things than taking video on the beach!

More seriously, yeah, as I joked about above, I find it difficult to believe this can be for real. If there is some kernel of truth to it, though, I'd like to see the legal references....which would then need to go straight to the ACLU! ;-)

Ok, so this doesn't get out of control...time for the claims to be validated with factual, verifiable references.

<<<-- Originally posted by Pete Bauer : If there is some kernel of truth to it, though, I'd like to see the legal references....which would then need to go straight to the ACLU! ;-) -->>>

I agree with you! Want to be quoted some of the silly laws? Here's your contact:

Jennifer Parramore
Film Commissioner
St. Petersburg-Clearwater Film Commission
14450 46th Street N., Suite 108
Clearwater, FL 33762

The things she told me about Florida laws pertaining to filming with and without permits scared the hell out of me.

I'm even more confused now!
 

I just got off the phone with Jennifer and she was very charming. I didn't get any of the horror stories that I was expecting, in fact, she is sending me out a complete package outlining the procedures for shooting in her area.

I'll advise if there is anything that really jumps out in the "you gotta be sh*tting me" department!

RB

Re: I'm even more confused now!
 

<<<-- Originally posted by Rick Bravo : she is sending me out a complete package outlining the procedures for shooting in her area.-->>>

I'd like to see that in a PDF.

Rick,

Will look forward to your report.

All,

FWIW, I did some searches on the web looking at the FL Film Commission web site and FL state statutes. The impression I went away with was that FL is actively encouraging filmmaking. Couldn't find any state laws that restrict filming in any way; it doesn't appear in the sections on regulated businesses, as talent agencies do. Regulation seems to largely be left to the local level. Here are some links:

State Code on filmmaker incentives (statutes 288.125 – 1258), which don't apply if you don't want state reimbursement for your production:

http://www.flsenate.gov/statutes/ind...288/ch0288.htm


As written by the FL Film Commission, permitting and the $1M insurance is not a general requirement, but in regard to parking your crew, equipment, and vehicles on state properties for your production:

Insurance -- http://www.filminflorida.com/prl/per...equiremnts.asp

PDF of the Permit for use of state property in filming: http://www.filminflorida.com/pdf/prod-perm-app.pdf

Sea Turtle nesting issues, which are actually within the purview of the Department of Environmental Protection and applies to everyone, not just oppressed filmmakers (this may be where the "no shooting beaches at night" issue arose. Seems quite reasonable to me...who wants to go around trampling baby sea turtles, after all?) -- http://www.filminflorida.com/prl/permits/dept.asp

Here's an example of local permitting:

Canaveral Permit -- http://www.nbbd.com/godo/cns/permits/

So the internet face of FL film looks quite benign. Everything I could find after snooping around the internet for over an hour involved no more than protecting public property to ensure fair and equitable use for everyone. Rick, if you find the real info package laced with zingers, please do let us know!

I spent a bunch of time reseaching the Florida issue too, since I live here. The people at state were very nice, but referred me to local counties for specific rules and regs. Sarasota County was a bit evasive in giving me an answer to what constitutes a "production" (therfore requiring a permit). She did say that she has never heard of a single person with a camera even being challenged. Beyond that, no charge for the permit, it sounds like they have it for only two reasons: 1) Insurance 2) Job Insurance -so they can prove what a good job their film commission is doing, this insuring their jobs.

FWIW, Florida is sending me a Production Guide. There are some cool subsidies like sales tax exemptions available, not sure what else yet. And Sarasota is trying to establish an indie film festival comparable to Sundance, so filmmakers may have a fair amount of support here as well.

One of the reasons I was so surprised by previous posts was that I served on the Miami-Dade Film Commission Advisory Board for about 4 1/2 years and never came across any issues like the ones cited.

In speaking with Jennifer, she stated that they don't even charge for permits. Charges are assessed only if operations for a certain location have to be extended past the norm or for things like off-duty police, etc.

Florida has always been very production friendly as it is a HUGE money maker for the state. It is hard not to drive down Ocean Drive in South Beach on any given day and NOT pass by at least a couple of productions whether they are film or still shoots.

RB

I find the following hilarious:

http://www.filminflorida.com/wh/ws.asp

What's Shooting for the Week of January 17, 2005
Films:
Currently None in Production

Which actually isn't true, because there are a few. Just goes to show how unorganized things can be at the gov't level.

Imran,
Are the films you know about getting assistance from the FL Office of Film & Entertainment? Is so, then, yup, there's a small "sin of omission;" if not, then they don't list them because they only list productions that they are assisting with.

Rob,
Ok, despite trying to compensate for my honestly just plain being in a lousy mood today, I didn't detect any humor on that web page...what am I missing?

Currently None in Production


HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA :)

Greenroomorlando.com alone lists a couple, and those are just for the central florida area. One comes to mind rightaway, and that's the film based on the Celestine Prophecy. There are a couple of others that I know are in production through various gossip circles around town. Again, this is just Central Florida, and I'm sure there's more up in South Florida, and here and there.

You'll find that the filminorlando.com site is OFTEN not updated. I remember at one time when Punisher (with John Travolta) was filming, none currently in production showed up. At some point later it was updated. And when Monster (with Charlize Theron) was shooting just around the corner from me, they were behind again.

There's no definitive place you can go to quickly see what's up in Florida, and there never has been. I've found that both frustrating and, quite frankly, pathetic, but it's just the nature of good ol' Florida. Though I'm sure plenty of other states have the same problem.

One SMALL detail...
 

Guys, laugh all you want, but...no matter how you look at it, most of these projects that you find on the GOV sites, whether TV or Feature Films are going to be union...IATSE to be exact.

For those of you who don't know, IATSE is the acronym for International Alliance of Theatrical Stage Employees. They pretty much cover everything from grips to projectionists in the industry.

Although Florida is a right-to-work state, the IA has gotten alot tougher on hiring practices.

My Point: If you aren't union...what the hell does it matter? You're not in the running for the job anyway! That's just the way things are.

There are ALWAYS more gigs happening than are posted on GOV sites. There are alot of European, Canadian (not so many now that the Canadian $ is so weak), Japanese shoots, etc. that you don't hear about.

As an aside, I still haven't received my package from Jennifer. I'll let you know if anything is BLATANTLY BAD!

Reagards to all.

RB

I've ordered a packet from Jennifer a week and a half ago and I live just a few miles from her office. I still haven't received it. <grin>

Scratch that... It just came in.

It's just a directory listing of all the pretty places in central Florida with a few phone numbers of local actors and crew.

All the information about permits, rules, regulations and the like are missing. Sad.

Just received my packet!
 

There is no reference to the illegality of shooting on a beach...day or night!

What it does say about beaches is the following.

A Permit Is Required When:

1. You are producing a feature film, TV special/commercial/pilot/series/industrial video or photography shoot that affects public property, equipment or facilities.

2. Your production is taking place on private property, and involves the use of pyrotechnics, explosives, or other incendiary devices; involves the display of other incendiary devices, firearms or use of gunfire, or involves stunts of any kind.

So, I guess this means that mom and pop with their home camcorder are safe from the long arm of the law afterall.

RB

Good to hear, Rick.

In the links I posted earlier to Floridainfilm, there was reference to the beaches but it had to do with protection of sea turtles -- which in my point of view is a good thing. Without going back and re-reading, I recall something to the effect of "discouraged" rather than "illegal."

Not that my search was exhaustive, but I didn't find anything online in the FL State laws about permitting...so I'm curious if the permits mentioned perhaps relate to a) local public land use ordinances and/or b) state or federal laws regulating pyrotechnics rather than filmmakers?

Happy Friday!

Re: Just received my packet!
 

<<<-- Originally posted by Rick Bravo : There is no reference to the illegality of shooting on a beach...day or night! -->>>

Please check the bottom of page 2: "The Department of Environmental Protection strongly discourages nighttime filming on nesting beaches during nesting season." Approx March 1 to October 31. Luckily, it's "discouraged", that means there's a chance to get a permit if we play our cards right.

Also, I'm noticing that not all counties are the same. All counties but one list mandatory permits for all filming with the $1M liability insurance. The exception is Collier County (Page 49) that states "Many locations are available with no permit or location fees."

The contact there is Maggie McCarty (1-239-659-FILM). I think I'll film in Collier County.

I can understand their concern because that area is a Sea Turtle habitat where most of the activity happens at night. That is the same reason that there are NO street lights on any of the Overseas Highway bridges in the Florida Keys. The light would actually confuse the turtles and basically screw up all manner of natural behaviors.

I have no problem with that.

If you have EVER worked on a professional film crew, a lot of the times producers couldn't give a good G*D damn about where they shoot or the repercussions of their actions. All they care about is their bottom line and getting the shot under budget.

Believe me when I tell you, I can relay some horror stories that I have experienced, first hand, that would leave you shaking your head.

Again, discouraged does not mean prohibited, it just means that they really want you to be careful with what you do, and that they would prefer you do it during the day!

You are absolutely correct. All counties are different, that is why we all have separate local governments. Although every county must abide by State rule, they are free to create and enforce their own laws based on their own needs.

RB

<<<-- Originally posted by Rick Bravo : Believe me when I tell you, I can relay some horror stories that I have experienced, first hand, that would leave you shaking your head. -->>>

Do tell! And don't hold anything back. ^_^