Do filmmakers tell the cast and crew where the money is coming from in these cases?

Ryan Elder · July 6th, 2020, 12:00 PM

Oh okay thanks, I can just use a single camera then. But I was told I need trained actors before for the product to be good, so I would still try to attract them.

But it seems that everytime I try to come up with new ways to get things done faster, such as multicam, or other things I have come up with, it seems that everything I come up with to try to solve problems, causes other problems. So maybe I should stop trying to think outside the box, and just keep doing what I have been doing before then?

Brian Drysdale · July 6th, 2020, 12:13 PM

I suspect Christopher Nolan's friends were more talented than your friends are, that's something you to need to work out. I assume that the people you make the films with aren't friends. To do this, all you need are a group of people with common interests, how you collect them is up to you, it's part of making these small budget films. No one is going to give you the answers, you know your area.

Unfortunately, I suspect you don't have Nolan's skill set, in that he had the photographic knowledge to DP and direct a film on B&W 16mm shooting on an Arri 16BL.

Attracting trained actors or people who can give something to a part is part of what you do as a director. Casting the right people is one of the first steps. so you need to do the donkey work and not waste time procrastinating on forums.

Ryan Elder · July 6th, 2020, 12:30 PM

Oh okay sure. There is one director I worked with before, and the AD from his movie, who said they were both interested in my script, and helping out, but of course I would still need a DP and PSM, or people more familiar in those areas. But I could still use the talents of those two to help out though.

Paul R Johnson · July 6th, 2020, 01:18 PM

Stop this crazy fixation with trying to crew your project like a major movie - it simply isn't. You are maddening in the need to give people professional titles and professional roles when what you really need is a reduced headcount made up of just a few people who know what they're doing. Giving people titles they don't deserve is amateurish in the extreme. What do you need? A director who knows how to direct and manage people. Somebody who understands cameras and somebody to capture your sound. Decent camera people will have an understanding of lighting, and the sound person will be competent at booming, recording and fitting personal mics and handling radio. Other roles can be done by wives, girlfriends, husbands and relatives with proper instruction. Your cameraman is probably NOT a Director of Photography - they operate the camera and do what the director asks for. You don't need supervisors, or producers, or any of the other silly terms you use. You MUST accept that it's an amateur project. Even a professional with an empty diary is going to be working in an amateur status if they're not being paid. They may act professionally, but have to deal with keen amateurs.

If you audition amateur actors - what are you looking for? Somebody who has stacks of pro acting experience, or somebody who has dates free and can hopefully learn their lines.

Stop pretending to be running a proper production company, because you are a keen film-maker frustrated by working with people as green as you are.

Ryan Elder · July 6th, 2020, 01:23 PM

Oh okay, well I thought for a crew I would need a few people. Someone who knows the cinematography, lighting and camera, someone to do the audio, an assistant director to me, if I can and someone who can do the make up. I can try to do the wardrobe and production design myself, with the cinematographer if I have to, but I could use make up as well, I figure.

But as for actors, are you saying I should work with less experienced ones?

The problem with accepting that it's an amateur project, is that I was told before that my projects look too amateur. So therefore, wouldn't it be reasonable to want to not make it amateur therefore, and try to get away from that? It's just if I keep doing the same thing over and over, it will always turn out bad I feel, so should I not try a different approach, and not try to make it amateur?

Brian Drysdale · July 6th, 2020, 01:40 PM

You work with what you've got, find people who have the right skills or who are willing to learn them. I used a civil engineering student on one of my early films and he was a Swiss army knife of skills.

Cast the right people for the parts, use non actors if they're right for the role. That's all part of casting these things. Just make sure they're reliable.

Ryan Elder · July 6th, 2020, 01:48 PM

Oh okay sure. I was going to ask a certain DP that I worked with before on someone else's feature, but he is more use to shooting documentary style cinematography, and not sure if that would be right for mine, but maybe he could still be good for my style of script maybe...

Brian Drysdale · July 6th, 2020, 02:03 PM

You won't know unless you ask them. You're not going to get a DP with vast feature experience and coming from a documentary background isn't unusual for those working on major feature films.

You don't need to ask on forums for an opinion about people we nothing about, these are decisions that you should be making on your own.

Ryan Elder · July 6th, 2020, 02:27 PM

Oh okay for sure. I don't know if I need vast experience as long as they can do feature film genre cinematography as opposed to documentary style cinematography of course.

Paul R Johnson · July 6th, 2020, 03:42 PM

This is the problem.

Quote:

I don't know if I need vast experience as long as they can do feature film genre cinematography as opposed to documentary style cinematography of course.

To get feature film genre cinematography requires quite a large amount of experience. It requires equipment that is used in a quite unique way. Do you actually have these people available? In my own area, for example, I can think of nobody who is likely to want to work on small projects with arms tied firmly behind their back.

Have you had many people promise to do your projects who walk away, or backtrack on what was promised.

I really cannot imagine how you will schedule your movie with so many people saying they will contribute, on vastly reduced professional rates, with no contracts, and actually turn up when normal fees for other projects appear?

How on earth can you secure quality people without paying them properly??

Ryan Elder · July 6th, 2020, 04:29 PM

I don't know, but people say the best way to save on money is to have people volunteer. That is the paradox I am faced with.

But I was told the cinematography on my past projects is not good enough, so I need to find someone better in that area, as well as better actors.

Pete Cofrancesco · July 6th, 2020, 04:39 PM

He’s only been back for a few days and I need to smoke a J.

Brian Drysdale · July 6th, 2020, 04:47 PM

The only way you'll get people to volunteer is to let them do something they don't normally do.

You don't have the Lighting gear to shoot in a feature film style, so you need someone who can shoot with limited lighting, but has a cinematic sense of style. You should talk to this camera person to see if they have a sense of what you're after and more importantly find out if they're interested. It's no use wasting time on a forum, you won't find any answers to that here.

Ryan Elder · July 6th, 2020, 04:55 PM

Okay sure I will try that, thanks. Another thing is, I was thinking to save money just don't use lav mics. I already have equipment for sound, but not lavs, just a boom. And my field recorder only has two channels anyway.

So I wonder if I should just use a single boom mic. Because if I am using just one camera and one camera operator to save money, I can also save more by having just one mic, and one boom operator, if that makes sense to do so as well.

Brian Drysdale · July 6th, 2020, 05:07 PM

Don't waste time on mics at the moment. We're not on your crew, we don't know the action, the shots that you want and so what's required.

It also depends on if you're asking about lav mics or radio mics, the former can either be hard wired or used on a radio mic.

July 6th, 2020, 12:00 PM	#91
Ryan Elder also known as Ryan Wray Join Date: Nov 2017 Location: Saskatoon, Canada Posts: 2,880	Re: Do filmmakers tell the cast and crew where the money is coming from in these case Oh okay thanks, I can just use a single camera then. But I was told I need trained actors before for the product to be good, so I would still try to attract them. But it seems that everytime I try to come up with new ways to get things done faster, such as multicam, or other things I have come up with, it seems that everything I come up with to try to solve problems, causes other problems. So maybe I should stop trying to think outside the box, and just keep doing what I have been doing before then?

July 6th, 2020, 12:13 PM	#92
Brian Drysdale Inner Circle Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Belfast, UK Posts: 6,143	Re: Do filmmakers tell the cast and crew where the money is coming from in these case I suspect Christopher Nolan's friends were more talented than your friends are, that's something you to need to work out. I assume that the people you make the films with aren't friends. To do this, all you need are a group of people with common interests, how you collect them is up to you, it's part of making these small budget films. No one is going to give you the answers, you know your area. Unfortunately, I suspect you don't have Nolan's skill set, in that he had the photographic knowledge to DP and direct a film on B&W 16mm shooting on an Arri 16BL. Attracting trained actors or people who can give something to a part is part of what you do as a director. Casting the right people is one of the first steps. so you need to do the donkey work and not waste time procrastinating on forums.

July 6th, 2020, 12:30 PM	#93
Ryan Elder also known as Ryan Wray Join Date: Nov 2017 Location: Saskatoon, Canada Posts: 2,880	Re: Do filmmakers tell the cast and crew where the money is coming from in these case Oh okay sure. There is one director I worked with before, and the AD from his movie, who said they were both interested in my script, and helping out, but of course I would still need a DP and PSM, or people more familiar in those areas. But I could still use the talents of those two to help out though.

July 6th, 2020, 01:18 PM	#94
Paul R Johnson Inner Circle Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Lowestoft - UK Posts: 4,016	Re: Do filmmakers tell the cast and crew where the money is coming from in these case Stop this crazy fixation with trying to crew your project like a major movie - it simply isn't. You are maddening in the need to give people professional titles and professional roles when what you really need is a reduced headcount made up of just a few people who know what they're doing. Giving people titles they don't deserve is amateurish in the extreme. What do you need? A director who knows how to direct and manage people. Somebody who understands cameras and somebody to capture your sound. Decent camera people will have an understanding of lighting, and the sound person will be competent at booming, recording and fitting personal mics and handling radio. Other roles can be done by wives, girlfriends, husbands and relatives with proper instruction. Your cameraman is probably NOT a Director of Photography - they operate the camera and do what the director asks for. You don't need supervisors, or producers, or any of the other silly terms you use. You MUST accept that it's an amateur project. Even a professional with an empty diary is going to be working in an amateur status if they're not being paid. They may act professionally, but have to deal with keen amateurs. If you audition amateur actors - what are you looking for? Somebody who has stacks of pro acting experience, or somebody who has dates free and can hopefully learn their lines. Stop pretending to be running a proper production company, because you are a keen film-maker frustrated by working with people as green as you are.

July 6th, 2020, 01:23 PM	#95
Ryan Elder also known as Ryan Wray Join Date: Nov 2017 Location: Saskatoon, Canada Posts: 2,880	Re: Do filmmakers tell the cast and crew where the money is coming from in these case Oh okay, well I thought for a crew I would need a few people. Someone who knows the cinematography, lighting and camera, someone to do the audio, an assistant director to me, if I can and someone who can do the make up. I can try to do the wardrobe and production design myself, with the cinematographer if I have to, but I could use make up as well, I figure. But as for actors, are you saying I should work with less experienced ones? The problem with accepting that it's an amateur project, is that I was told before that my projects look too amateur. So therefore, wouldn't it be reasonable to want to not make it amateur therefore, and try to get away from that? It's just if I keep doing the same thing over and over, it will always turn out bad I feel, so should I not try a different approach, and not try to make it amateur?

July 6th, 2020, 01:40 PM	#96
Brian Drysdale Inner Circle Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Belfast, UK Posts: 6,143	Re: Do filmmakers tell the cast and crew where the money is coming from in these case You work with what you've got, find people who have the right skills or who are willing to learn them. I used a civil engineering student on one of my early films and he was a Swiss army knife of skills. Cast the right people for the parts, use non actors if they're right for the role. That's all part of casting these things. Just make sure they're reliable.

July 6th, 2020, 01:48 PM	#97
Ryan Elder also known as Ryan Wray Join Date: Nov 2017 Location: Saskatoon, Canada Posts: 2,880	Re: Do filmmakers tell the cast and crew where the money is coming from in these case Oh okay sure. I was going to ask a certain DP that I worked with before on someone else's feature, but he is more use to shooting documentary style cinematography, and not sure if that would be right for mine, but maybe he could still be good for my style of script maybe...

July 6th, 2020, 02:03 PM	#98
Brian Drysdale Inner Circle Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Belfast, UK Posts: 6,143	Re: Do filmmakers tell the cast and crew where the money is coming from in these case You won't know unless you ask them. You're not going to get a DP with vast feature experience and coming from a documentary background isn't unusual for those working on major feature films. You don't need to ask on forums for an opinion about people we nothing about, these are decisions that you should be making on your own.

July 6th, 2020, 02:27 PM	#99
Ryan Elder also known as Ryan Wray Join Date: Nov 2017 Location: Saskatoon, Canada Posts: 2,880	Re: Do filmmakers tell the cast and crew where the money is coming from in these case Oh okay for sure. I don't know if I need vast experience as long as they can do feature film genre cinematography as opposed to documentary style cinematography of course.

July 6th, 2020, 04:29 PM	#101
Ryan Elder also known as Ryan Wray Join Date: Nov 2017 Location: Saskatoon, Canada Posts: 2,880	Re: Do filmmakers tell the cast and crew where the money is coming from in these case I don't know, but people say the best way to save on money is to have people volunteer. That is the paradox I am faced with. But I was told the cinematography on my past projects is not good enough, so I need to find someone better in that area, as well as better actors.

July 6th, 2020, 04:39 PM	#102
Pete Cofrancesco Inner Circle Join Date: May 2004 Location: USA Posts: 2,995	Re: Do filmmakers tell the cast and crew where the money is coming from in these case He’s only been back for a few days and I need to smoke a J.

July 6th, 2020, 04:47 PM	#103
Brian Drysdale Inner Circle Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Belfast, UK Posts: 6,143	Re: Do filmmakers tell the cast and crew where the money is coming from in these case The only way you'll get people to volunteer is to let them do something they don't normally do. You don't have the Lighting gear to shoot in a feature film style, so you need someone who can shoot with limited lighting, but has a cinematic sense of style. You should talk to this camera person to see if they have a sense of what you're after and more importantly find out if they're interested. It's no use wasting time on a forum, you won't find any answers to that here.

July 6th, 2020, 04:55 PM	#104
Ryan Elder also known as Ryan Wray Join Date: Nov 2017 Location: Saskatoon, Canada Posts: 2,880	Re: Do filmmakers tell the cast and crew where the money is coming from in these case Okay sure I will try that, thanks. Another thing is, I was thinking to save money just don't use lav mics. I already have equipment for sound, but not lavs, just a boom. And my field recorder only has two channels anyway. So I wonder if I should just use a single boom mic. Because if I am using just one camera and one camera operator to save money, I can also save more by having just one mic, and one boom operator, if that makes sense to do so as well.

July 6th, 2020, 05:07 PM	#105
Brian Drysdale Inner Circle Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Belfast, UK Posts: 6,143	Re: Do filmmakers tell the cast and crew where the money is coming from in these case Don't waste time on mics at the moment. We're not on your crew, we don't know the action, the shots that you want and so what's required. It also depends on if you're asking about lav mics or radio mics, the former can either be hard wired or used on a radio mic.