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-   -   Difference between a morning and afternoon scenes? (https://www.dvinfo.net/forum/techniques-independent-production/330940-difference-between-morning-afternoon-scenes.html)

Aaron Fowler September 2nd, 2009 04:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jacques E. Bouchard (Post 1300701)
Great. I'll be on set at the crack of noon. ;-)

Noon your time is 2am my time... so you'll be early. :P

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jacques E. Bouchard (Post 1300701)
Shop lights are pretty cheap (2,000W worth will cost you less than $100), and they're great for all-purpose lighting on set as part of your kit. Just make sure you're not overloading the circuit. I wired 110v plugs to my oven's 220v outlet because that's 35A right there and I can run a lot of lights off it.

I know they're cheap... I'm actually getting a friend of mine who works in a hardware store to pick me up a couple of worklights (horray for staff discounts!) but that won't match the quality (not quantity) of the light in the technique Charles was pointing out which is the expense that I can't justify.

As for power we use 240v here and I always use powerboards with circuit breakers built-in anyway (not that it's an excuse to overload a circuit).

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike Demmers (Post 1300902)
As a viewer, I associate light that is slightly 'bluer' than whatever the norm is for the movie as morning light. Light that is slightly redder, as afternoon.

Have you ever tried this in something you've made? I can picture it in my head and for some reason I see the morning as slightly more saturated than the afternoon.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike Demmers (Post 1300902)
It makes no scientific sense, but I associate hard light with morning, soft light with afternoon.

I find this odd as I personally would think it to be the other way around. I don't know why either.

Mike Demmers September 2nd, 2009 02:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aaron Fowler (Post 1301556)
Have you ever tried this in something you've made? I can picture it in my head and for some reason I see the morning as slightly more saturated than the afternoon.

...

I find this odd as I personally would think it to be the other way around. I don't know why either.

No - my background is in sound (all the sound cues mentioned I have used, though). For the visual stuff I was just listing things I see and my own personal associations.

It's interesting that yor own impressions are different for some of these - what this tells me is that using those kinds of cues -alone- might not be a good idea. Different light seems to mean different time, but beyond that may not be as useful as might be expected.

These associations probably just have to do with things like where you live (Oregon for me, but I grew up in California which is probably where those associations were formed), what kind of schedule you keep (I am a night person, actually -seeing- morning is fairly rare for me, and tends to feel harsh ;-) ), where the windows are in rooms you spend the most time in, etc.

Most movies actually seem to be pretty in your face about this - I would venture to guess that if someone actually took the time to go through all the morning scenes in movies and log them, the old 'cock crowing in the morning' sound effect would make the 'Wilhelm scream' look like a mere runner up for overuse.

This discussion reminds me of a story I think I heard on a DVD track, where 'famous director' walks into a production meeting where intense argument has been going on for over an hour about exactly which props and lighting will be required for a scene to clearly indicate that the door an actor exits through is the door to a stage, which is important to the plot.

The director shakes his head in disgust and says 'The audience will know it is a stage door because there will be a big sign on the door that reads 'Stage Door'. Next item?

'B-but, stage doors don't have signs on them that say 'Stage Door!!'

'This one does. We are making a movie, not a documentary'

If an important joke depends upon the time of day, maybe all you need to do is print 'Tuesday Afternoon' on the lower right hand corner of the screen for a second.

-Mike

Mike Demmers September 2nd, 2009 02:45 PM

Here is another idea that avoids the 'expensive lights' problem completely.

Just put green screen material behind the window, which will also kill any outside light and attendent complications.

Then shoot any plausible outdoor scene at two different times of day, and comp it in.

-MD

Aaron Fowler September 3rd, 2009 05:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike Demmers (Post 1303384)
It's interesting that your own impressions are different for some of these - what this tells me is that using those kinds of cues -alone- might not be a good idea. Different light seems to mean different time, but beyond that may not be as useful as might be expected.

I agree, not unless it is established in some other way to tell the audience what kind of day it is... I can understand being a night person that the morning light would seem a bit harsh for you... But honestly I'm no morning person either... Maybe it's my glazed over eyes that make the light look softer... :P

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike Demmers (Post 1303384)
The director shakes his head in disgust and says 'The audience will know it is a stage door because there will be a big sign on the door that reads 'Stage Door'. Next item?

Reading that made me think there should be a calender in the room with a red circle on the date... With a clock right next to it... A digital clock with AM or PM written on the face... I don't know what made me think about a calender considering we're only differentiating morning and afternoon...

As this tread continues I'm starting to think that the simple solutions are sometimes the best... I guess it's just a little common sense... But sometimes I don't have a lot of that.

Mike Demmers September 3rd, 2009 11:07 AM

There is a big, 12 inches in diameter analog clock in my kitchen. It's the one I most often look at if I want to know the time. It is a very common kitchen clock. Any shot of my kitchen would show it.

I remember it cost me $9 at the local hardware store.

I doubt am vs pm would need to be explicitly pointed out.

In wide screen a closeup of an actors face does not fill up the whole frame, you need something to fill out the rest of the frame. Like a clock on the wall.

-md

Jacques E. Bouchard September 6th, 2009 03:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aaron Fowler (Post 1305976)
As this tread continues I'm starting to think that the simple solutions are sometimes the best... I guess it's just a little common sense... But sometimes I don't have a lot of that.

Maybe someone has already suggested this, but direct morning light comes in through the windows in the morning, whereas in the atfernoon the sun would be on the other side, so logically there would be no direct sunlight. So, sunlight streaming in in the morning, and light fixtures in the afternoon.

Also, have them drink orange juice. Or, in your case, spread vegemite on their toast. :-p


J.

Aaron Fowler September 7th, 2009 03:42 AM

We've got pictures and knick-knacks for set dressing but no clocks... I'll see if I can find something cheap.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jacques E. Bouchard (Post 1320333)
Or, in your case, spread vegemite on their toast. :-p

Yum... Now i feel like Vegemite toast... Even though i just had dinner not long ago. I practically used to live on the stuff when i was a kid. :)

And yes I think someone did mention the lighting... I'll going back to the location this week before we start shooting to properly scout lighting angles/issues/etc and then maybe I can try and imitate the morning or afternoon sun as need be...

Rama Kattunga September 7th, 2009 09:30 PM

Setting the scene time
 
Aaron -
If you have to set time frame in the scene, Panning from a clock is best option along with type of blue/red tone of light (as suggested by others in thread). Costumes and scene acts (coffee, newspaper, breakfast.....etc) will set/enhance clarity. Mom watching the school bus Kids thru kitchen window. Afternoon can be set by female character being cleaning the countertop etc. Generally no preparation of food items.

You can add some cut to scenes like : waterdrops on leaves (morning)...newspaper and coffee. if you set the morning and dissolve into bright light scene with countertop cleaning with fresh look (afterbath) will automatically set afternoon.

Xavier Plagaro September 18th, 2009 08:02 AM

I didn't read all the answers, but in a recent short film I made recently, I had the same problem. I added different background sounds, more "birds" in the morning and more "insects" in the night. It's subtle but powerful!


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