Would using a star filter for cinematography be too weird?

[Josh Bass]

I'd suspect the haphazard looking nature of much of Ryan's work is due to not following a formal film set workflow...

I.e. block, light, rehearse, tweak shoot

1. Figure out blocking of camera and actors for a shot

2. Light according to blocking you've just figured out

3. Rehearse it

4. Make adjustments to whatever based on what you observe during rehearsal

5. Record actual takes

This is how all professional sets flow. If you rehearse those moves enough you or whoever is operating will know when they need to be framed like X and when they need to be framed like Y. After you've done enough rehearsals, you should get it to where everyone knows their parts and it looks smooth and professional, THEN it's time to record, and the sloppy, uncertain, searching quality to the camerawork should be eliminated.

If you want to claim you don't have time for all that because of schedule etc. well, then you get what you get and you can't really complain.

[Pete Cofrancesco]

I find it odd Ryan’s inability to troubleshoot problems and the misleading way he describes them. He says the lens is vibrating due to stabilization then only later reveals its on a gimbal. It shouldn’t be hard to deduce if it only happens on the gimbal it’s the gimbal. Besides you should feel the vibrations in the gimbal handle. Even if it was due to ois you would simply turn it off.

[Ryan Elder]

Oh okay thanks, I followed all those steps before, but perhaps I just need to do them better or do more rehearsals and more takes.

As for not knowing if it's the gimbal or the lens, I wasn't operating the gimbal, so I'm not sure.

Perhaps the term gimbal operator is the wrong term. I just called him that cause I posted that I was looking for a gimbal operator for a fair amount of the shots I wanted. I don't think of a gimbal as a fix everything tool, I just wanted it for some shots where I felt it would be the right tool. As for lenses we used mostly an 85mm lens, but it was a light, short one, and not a heavy one for the gimbal.

[Brian Drysdale]

I don't know which camera you're using, but if it has a Super 35 sensor, you may be pushing the skills of your operator, since many gimbal shots tend to use wide angle lenses.

[Ryan Elder]

We used a Sony A7s II.

I wanted to rotate around someone's face when doing the shots, and also do close up face shots when tracking. The 85mm is better for close ups, since they do not have near as much barrel distortion in faces, compared to wider lenses.

However, I have seen gimbal footage done with non-wide lenses, so are they just really good at doing it then?

[Pete Cofrancesco]

The more telephoto the lens the harder it is to get smooth shots. 24-50mm is the typical range for gimbal work but most people stay on the wide end. Most commonly used for following someone walking. Where as slider/dolly provide a smoother, gentler, controlled movement. The slider especially suited for close ups. There is an inherent mechanical jerkiness in electric gimbals.

[Ryan Elder]

Oh okay thanks. I've tried a dolly before too, but I found that it was very difficult to level out the track, and the footage was never good. The dolly footage I got before was worse than gimbal footage.

For a current project, would it be possible to do a shot like this on a gimbal, even though it's a longer lens, as long as the gimbal operator is really good?

The chaser rotating shot - YouTube

[Josh Bass]

Your dolly problems are probably pilot/crew error.

Leveling a dolly is quite an operation that usually involves knocking little wedge shaped pieces of wood under just the right points just the right amount, checking, rechecking, and rechecking. Then there have to be no bumps on the track, or issues with the wheels on the dolly having flat spots...maybe some other things I'm forgetting.

But that or a nice slider (a Dana dolly or the kind of slider supported at either end, if tripod mounted) is probably what you're after.

the gimbal is not a magic solution for every type of movement. Sometimes a dolly is better, sometimes a stedicam is better, sometimes handheld is better, sometimes a crane is better, etc..

I think you're trying to do all these fancy shots on what you can afford instead of compromising your expectations based on your limitations, and accepting "no we can't do this with what we have. Let's find something we CAN do that doesn't look like crap".

[Ryan Elder]

Okay thanks. I tried having the person operating the gimbal to do a similar move at 5:07 into this video:

Sad and Battle Damaged Souls - YouTube

Does the move look good on a gimbal compare to a dolly? I could get the dolly, it's just I would need a circular track for it, and have to do it on a long lens, which means a longer track as well. Plus I don't think I need to compromise as long as I have the right equipment, right?

[Pete Cofrancesco]

you’re doing that copy paste thing again. You’re trying to use the wrong equipment to replicate scenes from big budget hollywood movies.
No a gimbal wasn’t used for that shot more likely a bigger more expensive version of a device like this. This is actually something might want to invest in.

YouTube (Short URL)

YouTube (Short URL)

These sort of rotating shots are used frequently in hollywood action movies cough michael bay

[Ryan Elder]

Okay thanks but a slider would not have been able to make that move though, because it needs to around the actor, where as that one cannot make enough of a circular motion to do so though. It looks like in order to do that move, you need to be able to a circular turn close to 180 degrees at least. But it doesn't look like that slider can do that.

Also since we used a gimbal to replicate the shot, is the problem with a gimbal is that that shot is too shaky then?

[Josh Bass]

That's when you whip out the circular dolly track. As I said, it's an involved process setting all that up.

You really have to ask yourself if you NEED that shot. Sure, maybe in an ideal world, but let's say it takes half a shooting day to set up and execute...was it worth it? Could there not have been a less time consuming, if less "dazzling" way to shoot that? Do you want to actually make your movie and have it look good or would you rather make your movie but have many shots that fail at trying to do something you weren't equipped for?

[Pete Cofrancesco]

they probably have circular dolly track combined with a crane like arm I posted. and yes you can attempt use a gimbal to poorly approximate the shot

[Josh Bass]

please note and do not ignore the word “poorly”.

[Ryan Elder]

Okay thanks. Well I was told before not to try to emulate what I have seen before. So what if I used the gimbal to come up with my own original gimbal shots, instead of trying to emulate dolly and slider shots. Would doing my own original shots, be better than trying to emulate shots I've seen before?