Would using a star filter for cinematography be too weird?

Ryan Elder · January 11th, 2020, 09:38 PM

Okay thanks. Well the goal for him is to promote his dojo and his training to offer new students.

Josh Bass · January 11th, 2020, 09:52 PM

I just thought of this...

You could edit together a few minutes, basically what you posted here and SHOW them how/why it does not work, shooting as theyve instructed. Literally meet with guy one day and sit down with a laptop or at his/your computer and go through moment to moment

Point out how you cant see feet when they talk about footwork

Point out how you cant see the hand that is not facing cam

Etc.

And how this could be solved by more angles/shots.

Lower priority, how goofy the street clothes look compared to a uniform (you could call up one of the better vids on Youtube and then show them theirs or and make your case which looks more professional and likely to draw in business. )

You have literal proof that is not working to show them.

Ryan Elder · January 11th, 2020, 10:10 PM

Okay thanks, I already sent it to him and waiting to hear what he says.

The one thing I am not sure how to solve is the hand that is not facing cam since I don't want to break the 180 degree rule and go on the other side. However, perhaps I can still get close enough to the hand if I go on the line without crossing it.

Josh Bass · January 11th, 2020, 10:12 PM

Great that you did that...sometimes a sitdown/in person meeting can be more informative as you literally point at things, call up examples in right on the spot (the better produced videos I mentioned) and converse more fluidly than email allows.

Ryan Elder · January 11th, 2020, 10:20 PM

Yeah we have a meeting set for it now, just got back to me. I'll see if I can talk him into some ideas.

Pete Cofrancesco · January 11th, 2020, 10:51 PM

You're exhibiting same passive behavior that you did on other projects you have discussed here. You're too quick to say "you can't" or "they told me". You seem to lack the ability to assert yourself. Most clients are happy to listen to reasonable constructive advice to improve their video.

Ryan Elder · January 11th, 2020, 10:58 PM

Okay yes, I will try not to be passive then and try to urge my concerns more.

Pete Cofrancesco · January 11th, 2020, 11:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ryan Elder

Okay yes, I will try not to be passive then and try to urge my concerns more.

Just suggest changes to make their appearance more professional and how they can improve presenting their martial art moves in a more instructional way. Then show them youtube examples to illustrate your points.

Ryan Elder · January 12th, 2020, 12:32 AM

Oh okay. I think he is also expecting it to be done in one shot cause some martial arts videos, like the one that was posted on here before, are all shot in one shot, where the camera operator will move to the upper body, then to the lower accordingly. But is that all timed, then and they know which move will come next, rather than throwing in a new one here or there?

Josh Bass · January 12th, 2020, 12:50 AM

Yeah you can do that but you will have to choreograph them AND your camerawork precisely/carefully. So it will still require lots of talking through everything so you know exactly where to be at each moment. You and your client still won't be able to just wing it.

Kind of six of one/half a dozen of the other type situation...you spend time planning how to do it in one continuous shot or you spend time setting up multiple shots and redoing but either way you still spend quite a bit of time. He probably thinks this way will be faster...he's kinda wrong.

Ryan Elder · January 12th, 2020, 12:55 AM

Okay thanks. I will plan the multiple shots first and then we can do it all in one go master maybe... but if we do that, we should do it last, after all the other shots I think.

Brian Drysdale · January 12th, 2020, 02:20 AM

I would do the master first, give them marks where they stand, Rehearse it, so you and they have it pinned down, shoot the master then go in for the other shots as they repeat the action. Tell them that this is how stunt men and Bruce Lee do. it.

If you do it the other way, you can find yourself painted into a corner, trying to tie everything together.

The alterative is o have more than one camera covering the action,

Ryan Elder · January 12th, 2020, 02:24 AM

Okay sure I can do the master first, but I will have to have them rehearse the fighting a few times, and I have to tell them they have to do the same thing each time, no more different handplacements and all that. Cause if I have to move the camera down in the master to show footwork, then I have to know exactly when to tilt it downward. I hope do it the exact same way each time though.

Brian Drysdale · January 12th, 2020, 02:40 AM

Just show a full body in the master shot, that means you don't need to tilt down. One of the video examples earlier in the thread does this and it works,

You can check the master for continuity when shooting the closer shots, it's not a big deal when using video files. It was a bit more painful in the days of tape.

Ryan Elder · January 12th, 2020, 03:08 AM

The video example shown before did not show the full body the whole time. It tilted down and back up again at certain points though.

As for checking the master everytime, the problem is, is my camera has no fast forward or rewind option. You have to wait for the entire master play through every time you want to check it, and I did not have time on the last shoot cause of time constraints as we only have the location for 90 minutes at a time with their schedule. So I am really pressed for time to not play through the whole file every time I want to check.

January 11th, 2020, 09:38 PM	#421
Ryan Elder also known as Ryan Wray Join Date: Nov 2017 Location: Saskatoon, Canada Posts: 2,880	re: Would using a star filter for cinematography be too weird? Okay thanks. Well the goal for him is to promote his dojo and his training to offer new students.

January 11th, 2020, 09:52 PM	#422
Josh Bass Slash Rules! Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Houston, Texas Posts: 5,472	re: Would using a star filter for cinematography be too weird? I just thought of this... You could edit together a few minutes, basically what you posted here and SHOW them how/why it does not work, shooting as theyve instructed. Literally meet with guy one day and sit down with a laptop or at his/your computer and go through moment to moment Point out how you cant see feet when they talk about footwork Point out how you cant see the hand that is not facing cam Etc. And how this could be solved by more angles/shots. Lower priority, how goofy the street clothes look compared to a uniform (you could call up one of the better vids on Youtube and then show them theirs or and make your case which looks more professional and likely to draw in business. ) You have literal proof that is not working to show them. __________________ The Bass' camerawork The Bass on IMDB

January 11th, 2020, 10:10 PM	#423
Ryan Elder also known as Ryan Wray Join Date: Nov 2017 Location: Saskatoon, Canada Posts: 2,880	re: Would using a star filter for cinematography be too weird? Okay thanks, I already sent it to him and waiting to hear what he says. The one thing I am not sure how to solve is the hand that is not facing cam since I don't want to break the 180 degree rule and go on the other side. However, perhaps I can still get close enough to the hand if I go on the line without crossing it.

January 11th, 2020, 10:12 PM	#424
Josh Bass Slash Rules! Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Houston, Texas Posts: 5,472	re: Would using a star filter for cinematography be too weird? Great that you did that...sometimes a sitdown/in person meeting can be more informative as you literally point at things, call up examples in right on the spot (the better produced videos I mentioned) and converse more fluidly than email allows. __________________ The Bass' camerawork The Bass on IMDB

January 11th, 2020, 10:20 PM	#425
Ryan Elder also known as Ryan Wray Join Date: Nov 2017 Location: Saskatoon, Canada Posts: 2,880	re: Would using a star filter for cinematography be too weird? Yeah we have a meeting set for it now, just got back to me. I'll see if I can talk him into some ideas.

January 11th, 2020, 10:51 PM	#426
Pete Cofrancesco Inner Circle Join Date: May 2004 Location: USA Posts: 2,995	re: Would using a star filter for cinematography be too weird? You're exhibiting same passive behavior that you did on other projects you have discussed here. You're too quick to say "you can't" or "they told me". You seem to lack the ability to assert yourself. Most clients are happy to listen to reasonable constructive advice to improve their video.

January 11th, 2020, 10:58 PM	#427
Ryan Elder also known as Ryan Wray Join Date: Nov 2017 Location: Saskatoon, Canada Posts: 2,880	re: Would using a star filter for cinematography be too weird? Okay yes, I will try not to be passive then and try to urge my concerns more.

January 12th, 2020, 12:32 AM	#429
Ryan Elder also known as Ryan Wray Join Date: Nov 2017 Location: Saskatoon, Canada Posts: 2,880	re: Would using a star filter for cinematography be too weird? Oh okay. I think he is also expecting it to be done in one shot cause some martial arts videos, like the one that was posted on here before, are all shot in one shot, where the camera operator will move to the upper body, then to the lower accordingly. But is that all timed, then and they know which move will come next, rather than throwing in a new one here or there?

January 12th, 2020, 12:50 AM	#430
Josh Bass Slash Rules! Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Houston, Texas Posts: 5,472	re: Would using a star filter for cinematography be too weird? Yeah you can do that but you will have to choreograph them AND your camerawork precisely/carefully. So it will still require lots of talking through everything so you know exactly where to be at each moment. You and your client still won't be able to just wing it. Kind of six of one/half a dozen of the other type situation...you spend time planning how to do it in one continuous shot or you spend time setting up multiple shots and redoing but either way you still spend quite a bit of time. He probably thinks this way will be faster...he's kinda wrong. __________________ The Bass' camerawork The Bass on IMDB

January 12th, 2020, 12:55 AM	#431
Ryan Elder also known as Ryan Wray Join Date: Nov 2017 Location: Saskatoon, Canada Posts: 2,880	Re: Would using a star filter for cinematography be too weird? Okay thanks. I will plan the multiple shots first and then we can do it all in one go master maybe... but if we do that, we should do it last, after all the other shots I think.

January 12th, 2020, 02:20 AM	#432
Brian Drysdale Inner Circle Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Belfast, UK Posts: 6,143	re: Would using a star filter for cinematography be too weird? I would do the master first, give them marks where they stand, Rehearse it, so you and they have it pinned down, shoot the master then go in for the other shots as they repeat the action. Tell them that this is how stunt men and Bruce Lee do. it. If you do it the other way, you can find yourself painted into a corner, trying to tie everything together. The alterative is o have more than one camera covering the action,

January 12th, 2020, 02:24 AM	#433
Ryan Elder also known as Ryan Wray Join Date: Nov 2017 Location: Saskatoon, Canada Posts: 2,880	re: Would using a star filter for cinematography be too weird? Okay sure I can do the master first, but I will have to have them rehearse the fighting a few times, and I have to tell them they have to do the same thing each time, no more different handplacements and all that. Cause if I have to move the camera down in the master to show footwork, then I have to know exactly when to tilt it downward. I hope do it the exact same way each time though.

January 12th, 2020, 02:40 AM	#434
Brian Drysdale Inner Circle Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Belfast, UK Posts: 6,143	re: Would using a star filter for cinematography be too weird? Just show a full body in the master shot, that means you don't need to tilt down. One of the video examples earlier in the thread does this and it works, You can check the master for continuity when shooting the closer shots, it's not a big deal when using video files. It was a bit more painful in the days of tape.

January 12th, 2020, 03:08 AM	#435
Ryan Elder also known as Ryan Wray Join Date: Nov 2017 Location: Saskatoon, Canada Posts: 2,880	re: Would using a star filter for cinematography be too weird? The video example shown before did not show the full body the whole time. It tilted down and back up again at certain points though. As for checking the master everytime, the problem is, is my camera has no fast forward or rewind option. You have to wait for the entire master play through every time you want to check it, and I did not have time on the last shoot cause of time constraints as we only have the location for 90 minutes at a time with their schedule. So I am really pressed for time to not play through the whole file every time I want to check.