Would using a star filter for cinematography be too weird?

[Pete Cofrancesco]

Originally Posted by Ryan Elder

Okay thanks. I definitely would do a lot better if I had more than 90 minutes at a time per shoot I feel.

As for moving the camera further away, well they keep coming close to it, so they still leave the DOF. Also, the more I move it away, the further away they are when they start, so it's hard to see the moves they want to show then, but maybe that's okay...

I don't want to get into a debate about this but if you're using a kit zoom lens, the aperture doesn't open that wide, and you should be using the widest part of the lens which is often around 30mm. Those factors alone are going to give you a large dof. You can test this out at home or look it up on dof calculator. https://www.dofmaster.com/dofjs.html
I think because you are always trying to shoot close ups you aren't aware of how large the dof is for wide angle shots.

[Ryan Elder]

Well they are in focus for about half the shot, but as they come closer, they start going out, once they cross the first half of the room. But perhaps the motion blur from their speed may hide the going out of focus, and it may be just interpreted as motion blur maybe.

And yes, they have nothing to lose, but of course I still want to do a good job, with what I have, if possible.

[Brian Drysdale]

If doing this types of gigs you have to be in charge as the director, you need to use whatever mind games you have in your arsenal to get the participants into the required positions. If they come towards you, cut instantly and tell them not to, reposition them and do another take.

You are the one doing them a favour by making them a free video.

[Paul R Johnson]

This is the sort of production where things will be unpredictable and a proper video camera, with a lens that stays in focus is a real must. I very rarely need a shallow DoF. All my work seems to require sharp images, and anything out of focus is bad. With a real camera, with real focussing, you spend so little time running focus. Focus is the thing I learned first with my studio camera work. Focussing the correct direction was always the killer. Something in the viewfinder is soft, but turning the focus knob the wrong way on a live shot was the sign of a real novice. You soon develop the knack of spotting if the soft item is behind the sharp subject or if its a soft foreground object. Focus really is not a problem, and the notion that for this martial arts production it is just screams wrong setup to me. If the set isn't bright enough then you need more light, or a more appropriate camera. If you must use your existing camera and lenses, then getting the light level up is important.

Ryan - this is a very simple project. I fail to see what it's causing so much grief. If I were doing it there would be hardly any advance prep. I'd turn up with the right kit, I'd talk to them, and we'd start shooting pretty quickly. After shot one, we'd chat and change things. Setup wise, you're just not going to get all pan angles identical distances, so subject distance will be very variable, so your DoF must be deep enough to get it all in the frame in focus. Focus set on the median position and away you go.

[Pete Cofrancesco]

Originally Posted by Ryan Elder

Well they are in focus for about half the shot, but as they come closer, they start going out, once they cross the first half of the room. But perhaps the motion blur from their speed may hide the going out of focus, and it may be just interpreted as motion blur maybe.

And yes, they have nothing to lose, but of course I still want to do a good job, with what I have, if possible.

Newer dslr have autofocus with facial tracking, camcorders have large dof, you need to backup, change your angle, or establish boundaries for their movement. Like Josh is saying this low end stuff with low expectations.

You are going to keep finding these type of problems because you're too passive and are not in control. This is your typical wing it as you go along type of stuff.

[Ryan Elder]

Okay thanks. I'll just run the gain higher than I use to, to get a deeper DOF without going too dark then, if that's better.

I was able to pull focus before on other projects, but that's when actors were hitting their marks, where as with this, they are going all over the place, so it's tough.

This is one of the reasons why I shot it from a perpendicular angle before because then the two fighters keep the same distance from the camera, while moving left to right, and stay in the same focus area. But if that type of shot is not artistic enough, then I could try getting a deeper DOF from a less perpendicular angle.

[Brian Drysdale]

You need to use the peaking, so that you can pull focus by eye, this allows you can see where the focus is. Ir's even easier if your camera had a colour option on the peaking.

This is all standard stuff, on documentaries, sports and news and current affairs.

[Ryan Elder]

Yes for sure, I just don't have focus peaking on the camera. But I remember reading that magic lantern has it, so if that's true, I can try putting that on the camera and see.

[Brian Drysdale]

Unless you're got a highly effective auto focus, not having this feature probably limits your camera for any serious video work.

[Ryan Elder]

Oh well I don't have autofocus on the current camera I am using. But I never liked autofocus before, cause I worked with a couple of DPs that used before but it would fail or fall behind quite a few times though, so I didn't think it was any better, but maybe.

[John Nantz]

Originally Posted by Ryan Elder

I took this on as a volunteer gig for something to do in the meantime, since I thought maybe I should take on more different types of projects.

Excellent because this is good experience.

Originally Posted by Ryan Elder

I think they are in a rush a to get it done. They seem like they want to, but definitely want to rush it out there it seems.

Understandable as they’re paying rent, or at lease the electric and heating bills, on the place and need to get clients in so they’re stressed.

Originally Posted by Ryan Elder

…, but that's when actors were hitting their marks, where as with this, they are going all over the place, so it's tough.

Lay a rope across the mat just out of frame and tell them if they cross that like you’ll cut their legs off!

Originally Posted by Ryan Elder

Oh okay thanks. The problem with using a cellphone though, is that the angle is so wide you have to get a lot more close. So it can be seen in the other camera therefore.

Or even if I use a cellphone to do the mastershot, I would have to move the other camera out of frame and zoom in, but then the angle is compromised that way somewhat though.

Cell phones since at least before 2014 should be able to Zoom with no problem. Between the three of you there should be three cell phones so surly one of them will have zoom capability. There have been umpteen posts over several days about how you can’t see the other side of the arm (or whatever). There needs to be another cam… somehow!

For a cheap B-roll phone tripod, get a handle off of a push broom, one that unscrews, and tape the phone to the handle at the hight you want and leave your cam on the tripod wide. Or, if it’s possible one can still reach the controls, reverse the rolls.

The guys are getting nervous because nothing is working. This video gig is taking too long.
“If you want it bad, you get it bad!”
This isn’t Hollywood!
At this point it doesn’t have to be a thing of beauty.

Originally Posted by Brian Drysdale

These things always involve comprise, it usually involves working out the best compromise that works.

YES! As a director one has to get used to compromise and be creative (fast and cheap).

Originally Posted by Ryan Elder

Oh okay, well I find this to be very different than directing a feature with action scenes, cause for the feature, you are setting up the shots for emotion, …. So I feel it's a whole new ball game for me, compared to the action scene of a movie.

If it isn’t one thing, it’ll be something else. One has to be a problem solver and get past the road blocks.

[Ryan Elder]

Oh okay thanks. Well I don't have a tripod for a cellphone and don't want it to look handheld though, which is why I didn't consider a cellphone before.

I did put tape down and told them not to cross it but it kept getting crossed, and it's hard for them to control that during the moves. Or even if they get close to it, if I pan down far enough the tape is scene anyway in the frame, if they go down to the ground and it wasn't planned... So maybe I shouldn't use tape then?

Well I am editing the latest shoot now, and how bad is jump cutting for some things though? I've seen in movies before where it's the style, so would work in something like this do you think if I made it the style?

[Brian Drysdale]

If they go down on the floor just shout cut. Tell them that they have to know what they're going to demonstrate and go no further. Either that, or fade out (or something else) and go onto the next demo in the video using some sort of audio as part of the link. If you do this once, you should do it every time.

You can improvise a support for the cell phone, perhaps using a mic stand, there are all kinds of clips around in the market for phones. Magic arms are also great for putting stuff up.

Again, you need to roll with what you've got as the director and use it to best effect.

Jump cutting can work, just so long as it's been established as a style for the video. With modern videos there are lots of tools in the inventory, just be consistent. You should be able to judge if it works yourself.

[John Nantz]

There are a couple Best Buy stores in Saskatoon that might have a tripod and camera holder [Edit: meant phone holder] that would work for you in this case.
https://stores.bestbuy.ca/en-ca/sk/saskatoon

Just noticed an ad for a phone-gimbal and tripod on this web site that would be a nice upscale solution.

There is a $15 tripod with a spreader in Regina - too bad it's so far away. Looks nice for the money. What, ~ 250 miles? Bummer.
https://www.usedregina.com/classifie...Stand_35063718

[Ryan Elder]

That's true, I just feel that since it's there project, they should put in for it, especially since I don't think someone trying to be professional like me, should shoot on a cellphone. And I am already buying other equipment anyway for other things. But is that the wrong attitude?