wow, this is a fantastic thread. I agree, this one should go on forever as a type of filmmaker therapy.
I just realized how many typeos i made in my original post....i can only speak of my sorrows while soused.
Here's to our efforts boys!

Never~ending production
 

April 2004 ~ We decide to make the Redneck Planet series, (a toilet humor) based on characters from previous home video messings around. During the course of the year we film several skits and everything is going great. As November approaches actors start vanishing and not staying in contact for months on end. I sit on the footage.

February 2005 ~ The actors return, almost out of the blue, to finish the first episode. We shoot several more skits and everything is going well.

April 2005 ~ We finally push a clip or two through post and to our website. Filming continues.

May 2005 ~ The primary actor, or star, goes MIA seemingly forever...the series is nearly cancelled.

January 2006 ~ I decide that all that footage can't go to waste and start up post production on a slimmed down version of the first episode -using all existing footage.

March 2006 ~ I finally release a handful of decent sketches and teasers to Google Video, we get 10,000 hits/views in just 45 days!!! (Rednecks vs. K-9 being the most popular)

June 2006 ~ Upset that I don't have all the footage/sketches I need to make a decent pilot, I decide, again, to pull the plug on that production and start working on our serious project (Dark Horizon) a horror movie.

July 2006 ~ The actors from Redneck Planet, mostly family, come out of hiding, see themselves all over the internet, and want back in -want to finish production!

August 2006 ~ Present day...I have decided to close production on Redneck Planet as a series and go for the easier route of just releasing clips here and there as we have time to film them. Eventually a DVD will be made with a collection of all the sketches... Pre-production continues on the horror with new, dedicated actors and a new co-writer.

~~~So over two years of off and on again production and still no solid 30 minute pilot. Hours of footage, some usable, some crap. Crazy schedule changes, summer weather (Phoenix 118 degrees), and peoples lives running amok nearly haulted our goals. I managed to produce 3 other short professional projects in all that time!

~~~Lesson learned? Get it done while everyone is hot on the idea, don't delay for anything. Do things to keep everyone hot on the idea, create a schedule. For the horror, to keep everyone interested, I hold a meeting once a week to work on script revisions, movie posters, location brainstorming, etc.

I guess I've been very lucky compared to some of you guys.

My second short film, had to keep rescheduling 'cause my lead actor worked at a court reporting firm, and would often get surprise calls to shoot depositions at 5:30pm on any given day. Took around 6 months to finish a 3.5 minute movie. Also had multiple locations. Also, in one flashback sequence where he remembers a former girlfriend, his real life girlfriend was sick/busy (don't recall which) that day, so he brought his sister instead. They did silly stuff like skipping down a hill together, dancing, etc. Then I was inspired and had them pretend to kiss against a sunset sky (they were in silhouette). Good times. Good incestouous times.

Another short was all interiors, and was set at night. Should be easy, right? No. Couldn't schedule it to work out actually shooting at night, so we shot on the weekend, during the day, and I had to black almost every window in his house with duvetyne or visqueen.


This most chaotic was my last short. Here was a movie that somehow seemed doable to shoot in two days. It was more like three, and when I say "day", I mean a period of about 18 hours.

I went through two actors before finding one that was able to do it.

Our first day was night stuff, and we got started late, got lost on the way to our second location, and almost got kicked off of said exterior location by cops. We had to promise not make any noise, 'cause if they got complaints, we were through. We had a genny to power electric lights (we were nowhere near available power), but it was a plain old generator, no covering, cushioning, etc. It would have been insanely loud. It was recommended we not use it. So we lit everything we shot with torches (it was a scene involving a ritual), a tiny blue flashlight (ended up being the moon), and a Q-beam, which is this insanely bright flashlight whose battery only lasts about 20 minutes on a full charge. I don't think we started shooting 'til around 1am, and left at like 8am, and had to be back up and running around 2pm.

So next day, we had some day exterior stuff to do, but we got started so late the sun was pretty much gone, and my DP/gaffer faked the daytime through an elaborate use of foamcore and lights. It kinda works. For a shot where a guy was supposed to swing a golf club at the the camera (it was a POV shot--we had a piece of plexi in front of the camera), I got quite hit in the head with said golf club (I was operating the cam, apparently in a bad position), and said head proceeded to bleed quite a bit. One guy's wife was a doctor, so she came and checked me out, and it was all good. We still had a lot left to do, and didn't stop 'til 5am or so. That was supposed to be the last day, but the actor promised us another. We started early the third day (about 5am), and finished about 15 minutes before he had to be out the door.

Final product came out pretty well, all things considered. I did have a real pro gaffer on that shoot, though, and a guy acting as PA/grip some of the time.

So, here're my thoughts.

Actors--I know we all want to cast our friends, but our friends usually don't get that we really need 8-10 (or more) hour days to get anything done, and if they're not getting paid, probably won't take the project that seriously) Using real actors (I'm not sayin A-list celebs, but people that ARE actors, that have devoted their life to that pursuit) is probably a better idea, since they are going to be used to that kinda stuff. Also, I've been really, really lucky in this regard--I don't use strangers as actors. I've met people along the road to life, through work (when I say work, I mean video/film industry type things), or school, or personal recommendations, and these are the people I end up using as my talent. I've never held auditions. I usually just think of someone from my "roster" who'd be good as the character, and hope they're interested in doing it. These are always people I consider to be good actors, not just people who are convenient. I'm also paying everyone out of pocket on this next shoot (granted, it's a half hour short, not a feature). I think even if the pay is low (not REAL low, but low compared to union scale or whatever), it'll keep morale up (make the project feel more legitimate), and give them motivation not to be unavailable that day. Also, yeah, food. Last time I got a real meal for everyone once a day, and had coolers with snacks/drinks all the time.

scheduling: I've heard the advice about shooting 2-3 straight weeks (I guess this'd be for a feature), instead of doing weekends for four years, or whatever, but let's face, that's asking a lot from everyone who isn't personally invested in the film. That's either asking someone to use their vacation days to make your movie, or asking them to take a bunch of sick days, or I don't know what. I've been doing the weekend thing for my shorts, and it's worked out okay.

I'm thinking if you had a real simple story in one location (think Tape), you could do a hell of a lot of it each day, and get it done in a few weekends, instead of year or something.

I've never done a feature, and you know what? If I ever write a feature-length script, I think I'm gonna try to do the whole thing right, instead of shooting on DV/HDV with no budget. It's just not worth it to me to care that much about something and then shoot it in a way that devalues what it could have been. I'd rather wait 'til I have the means to let it fulfill its potential.

Josh I completely understand what you are saying here, from what i've heard here in the uk to be taken seriously by industry folks you have to at least shoot digibeta.

This is where things change for us, that costs a substancial amount of money for a three week rental , and if your spending that on cameras then you have to go the distance on everything else....good actors (at least union rates), cranes ,dollys, grips ,gaffers etc etc to do it justice. Bottom line your stepping your game up which can only be done with funding.

Like I said I understand what you are saying about waiting till you have the means. However the way i see it is I would rather shoot a couple of self funded features of lesser quality just to go through that gruelling process where it just feels like your in a two week battle and your gonna keel over from fatigue which you only get from doing the full movie in one shoot. That way you make all your mistakes in relative safety so your prepared for whats to come when you have £80 or £100,000 funding and alot more pressure.

Ive always said to the other people in my company (we're all the same age 25) that I agree funding is inevitable but you can choose when you think your ready for it and I think you need to go through the production of a feature with all of the crazy stuff that happens that you wouldn't ever think of in order to be ready.And I'm so glad I did cause i'm alot more confident about taking on that kind of money.

Of course that is just what I think is right for us. Diffirent Strokes for Diffirent folks.

Andy.

Andy I totally agree with you.

Having worked as a broadcast director and producer I always said that I would never shoot my personal projects with lesser production values. The upshot of that has been that I've never shot any of them at all because I didn't have the funds to do them how I felt they should be done.

A strategic rethink has been in order because ultimately now I think it's far more important to be making stuff rather than talking about making stuff you can't afford to make.

With the advent of HDV etc. and 33mm adapters and whatnot, I can finally see a way forward. Yey for technology and my lowering standards!

Ben

I see what you're sayin' but here's how it works for me:

It takes me a really long time to actually do one of these things. To get an idea I think is worth making into a script, then to get everything ready to go, that even for one of these little shorts, it's still a huge deal.

So it would be a super mega super dooper pooper huge deal if I ever got it together enough to write a 80-120 page script that I thought was screenworthy. That being said, I'm not gonna kill it by trying to produce it on the cheap. I would at least want the chance of a limited theatrical showing. If funding can't be found, I would rather spend my own savings and rent pro gear and pay pro people than do it on miniDV and all.

I'm DPing a 30-minute short for a friend, no budget of course, and I FEEL like I've been shooting a feature. I think we've been at this for two months or so already. We can only shoot one day a week, and we've still got a way to go. Luckily there've been no huge catastrophes except for it raining last weekend and pushing us back even further.

If you guys are more prolific (which I wish I was) and don't mind doing a couple features on the cheap (that's not to say if you do, that they won't go anywhere, but let's be honest, the odds are against us) for the experience, that's great (and I mean that sincerely, not sarcastically).

Anyway, back to topic, at least try to get committed actors. There're people out there that are good that'll work for free. It's even better if you can pay 'em a little something.

My next short's got a lot that takes place outdoors, so wish me luck.

In regards to the post following my last one:

The technology is getting more affordable, but there's still a point, I think, where you need help/money. Even if you have the greatest gear ever, if your'e the only knowledgable crew memeber, every shot's gonna take forever. If your actors are still unpaid/uncomitted, the fancy gear won't make that problem go away.

I think it's about writing a story that you can bring to life with what you have available. Don't write crazy action sequences and special FX and whatnot if you can't pull 'em off. Don't set it in a castle unless you have a castle available.

We all agree on the same points, especially the actors thing, we all just do it a diffirent way which is what makes the world such an interesting place.

Josh I absolutely wish you the best of luck man, and I hope you get the weather for it

Andy.

Thanks, dudes. Keep on truckin' but don't truck blindly. Or something.

You know... those shock collars don't just work on dogs. You adlibbing again? *push* Yiiiiipe!

You're thinking too small.

Those actors don't need to leave the set. Ever. Electric fences, baby.

Agreed. You can't polish a turd. You just get shiny poo.

To be honest though, if you're the only knowledgeable crew member and your cast are uncommitted, I would suggest you rethink your working practices or further scale down your ambitions.

It is simply impossible to get a theatrical release-quality picture made on your own with just the aid of some 'work-experience' helpers on board. ANd before he's mentioned Rodriguez don't count. He was NOT on his own.

Smaller scale projects... Train these mofos up and mould them into an efficient fighting unit before tackling the masterpiece. I doing a similar thing now with the guys I'd previously trained up in Avid use (which they now do professionally )and they are coming along quite nicely. The day one of them suggests a certain gel to use I think I might shed a little tear.

As with actors.. .Well I make it very clear from day one that they are not doing me a favour - that in fact the reverse is true because all this time and effort is being used to make them look great and help further their careers and they are not having to spend a single penny on it. If there's even the merest hint of them being slack I won't use them. That said, once they're on-board I do everything in my power to help them out, especially if they're really pretty... ;-)

In terms of cheap acting labour, I'd go for final year drama students, the ones that have done a few shows and had to learn the discipline of call times and taking direction etc... Anything less than that and it's all just a big game and telling people you're the star of a movie. Agh...


Ben

I dont know if i agree with the "you cant polish a turd" thought.
If everyone waited for funding and the newest gear than no one would ever get anything accomplished.
By and large the whole lot of us are filmmakers by our own means.
We work hard to write, produce, direct, dp, edit and sweeten. Most of us polish our own audio, color correct, produce our own artwork, create our own dvds and develop and maintain our own websites. We create the entire experience.
This is, by far, the most interesting and promising time to be a filmmaker in history.
The human race has developed the technology and the demand has made it all affordable for us to carry our own complete studio on our sholders (as was predicted by coppola).
30 years ago this whole idea, the idea of having your own complete production studio was totally unheard of, so i say use what we have at hand.
This is not to take anything away from those who have worked hard and saved to buy the coolest of the cool toys.
You have the cash? Write a great flick, shoot on HD or 35mm, cut it on an avid turnkey, make a print and wait for the money, drugs and whores.
written a strong script but have no money? shoot on digi 8, cut on windows movie maker and burn it to an SVCD, wait for the unemployment check, cheap cigarettes and coffee house intelligista chicks.
Either way, you must produce!
In my opinion we are doing nothing but wasting our lives and burning opportunity when we wait for the cash or the glitzy gear to make our flicks.
Get a cheap camera and shoot! Make mistakes and learn! There is a wondeful nobility in that,
This is what a filmmaker does!
Don't sit on your ass and wait for gear you'll never get or a check you'll never cash!
This is what a dreamer does.
Just a random collection of scattered thoughts.

I agree with all you've said. My comment was more in relation to the idea that a one-man band with no pro actors or knowledgable help, could produce something that would get a theatrical release.

But you're right. THEN is the time to be training up and learning from mistakes before the assault on the bigtime.

Ben

After doing the 48-hour film project a couple of weeks ago, I think this is a great way to build your chops - you either learn to live within your limitations (including time) or die. First learn to do things efficiently - next learn how to do them with improved quality, but at the same quick pace.

The actors and weather aren't the enemy. The passage of time is the enemy.

Lotsa location problems for you guys. Perhaps you should consider set and soundstage shooting in my country (and no I do not work for the tourism and film board!) It's very affordable. Ok, think of this, I spent 125 USD to build a section of an f-16 cockpit, complete with buttons and everything. Like 200 USD to build a section of a German looking castle. The soundstage rental goes for 50 USD a day. Soundstage shooting is not big here, location shooting is more big.
Oh and about actors showing up, never use friends or family as principles. Contact B rated actors, or older actors who never had a starring role. They are usually more enthusiastic and give their best.

Wow. Could you move your country to mine?

Hey Bass, besides my family's in Dallas. Great deal here. You guys should really consider shooting here.

some more bad luck stories:
Hired an Elvis impersonator, who was great in rehearsal, but didn't tell us he had a rare blood condition which came on any time he over-exerted himself (which he did in the rehearsal) result - one ambulance ride, zero hours footage shot.
Hired a generator. Hired a truck to tow it. But found out too late that the tow hook on the truck was not compatable with the tow hook on the generator.
Had the entire production budget for a short film stolen from my jacket pocket (fortunately later recovered)
Arranged to use a car park location, only to find it being re-tarmac'd on the morning of the shoot
Had an actor get too much into his role as a gangster character, and threaten the owner of a location we wanted to use (before we used it). Fortunately we had a producer who was good at apologising...
Not to mention the usual crew fights, food poisoning, rain, snow, hail and floods...

I'm sorry but THAT is funny! You should do a reenactment and post that somewhere.

You could make a new film with that content!

Very funny, Elvis guy. Yes, sounds like a good story for film.

Actually once, we forgot to bring film. Very funny, everybody assumed the other guy brought it. Not so funny for the producer of course.....

Ouch!

Then again, you're filmmakers, not film bringers. No problem, just... make some film!

i got few bad experiences . but i think the worst is the last one . 3 days in the last week end . i'v been to shoot a cars show . drifting and cars going on two weels and stuff like this .
most of the drivers were professional stunt , so , no problem whit them . But this crazy guy who organize all the contest , doing drifting and pretending to be the star of the event ... >:((( cause he pretend to be funny , trying to scare me with couple of dangerous tricks

so , couple of shoot were very dangerous , and i risk a lot : and they did not understand that shooting is not that easy , and in that contest more .

so , i reccomend you not to do shoot like that.

hope i explaine myself . cause right now i fell quite hangry and depressed , and my english is worst that usual

thanks

stefano

I'd say the worst experiences as a Line Producer are with writer/directors unwilling to cut down their scripts because the dialogue is too much. So the actors struggle a little bit with these scenes that have 4-5 pages of long dialogue diatribes.

In post, they can't cut anything out because it'll hurt the film (or they don't want to cut it out); if only they took a paragraph of dialogue and turned it into a line or two BEFORE production. Usually, they aren't accepted into fests because of this.

I advise all up-and-coming writer/directors to cut your dialogue down, your scenes, too, if you're on a micro budget. It's hard, I know, but do it for the sake of your film. An occasional monologue that advances the storyline is cool, but not every other page.

Also, a dialogue-driven movie isn't a bad thing, but they're a rare breed (think Noah Baumbach's excellent KICKING AND SCREAMING, now on Criterion DVD).

heath

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argh! Getting another project dangled and then cut out from under me feets mate!