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-   -   Sick of Uneven Dialogue Levels in Hollywood Movies (https://www.dvinfo.net/forum/totem-poll-totally-off-topic-everything-media/125669-sick-uneven-dialogue-levels-hollywood-movies.html)

Adam Reuter July 9th, 2008 11:07 PM

Sick of Uneven Dialogue Levels in Hollywood Movies
 
I've watched about 8 movies in a row that have issues with uneven dialogue levels. These are HD DVDs encoded with Dolby Digital Plus.

My TV and DVD Player do not have an audio leveling option enabled.

Are sound mixers really getting that bad? I understand something like making a shout/yell louder than normal dialogue but constantly having to fiddle with my volume control when actors are whispering or one character's line sounds quieter than another or when a loud explosion/action sequence starts and the music is blasting.

I don't remember having this problem with VHS. We'd just set the volume once and forget it throughout the rest of the film.

Perhaps Hollywood can comoromise with consumers and run their 100 dB dynamic range soundtracks through a compressor and put it on a separate "night mode" track?

Vito DeFilippo July 9th, 2008 11:10 PM

I have to agree with you. It seems Hollywood movies are mixed to be watched at a very high volume. If you want to hear the dialog, you have to be ready to have your ears blasted for any dramatic moments.

I hate it, too...

Dylan Couper July 9th, 2008 11:31 PM

THANK YOU!

Yes, I completely agree. I adjust the volume up and down at least every 15 minutes it seems with recent movies. Talk about a suspension of disbelief killer...

Bruce James July 10th, 2008 02:41 AM

What you could do is reduce the dynamic range by using a compressor..

Richard Alvarez July 10th, 2008 06:57 AM

How many people who feel this way are over forty?

Seriously.

Ervin Farkas July 15th, 2008 12:41 PM

Yeah, it's the new generational conflict.

No, sound mixers are not getting worse, they WANT to do it this way.

Yes, I am over 40. And yes, I hate the kids stopping next to me at the stop light when their car is polluting my ears with 150dB bass...

Vito DeFilippo July 15th, 2008 01:23 PM

Case in point. We were watching a movie the other day and my wife, who is not a video person, but what you would consider a regular movie watcher, says "there's something wrong with the sound. You can hear everything but the dialogue." She was astounded when I explained it was mixed like that on purpose, and you just had to turn it way up.

Sherif Choudhry July 20th, 2008 12:42 PM

no, its not just an age thing
 
It could be age, but i dont think so, because of the way the 5.1 sourround is mixed i find on some movies the rear speakers are barely audible whilst on others they are over-powering (i thought it was my system at first but its not), whilst on others the stereo spread is poor with everything blasting out of the centre channel....and if i put on a movie about gang-warfare, the bass comes thundering out (because they have clearly mixed the bass way up compared to a typical movie)

I have a night mode on my amp which compresses audio but its still doesnt compensate for me having to adjust the volume, especially as i like to hear the voices as loud as possible - its not budget either as i have picked high quality amp/speakers.

But theres no doubt that when i watched Saving private Ryan loudly on my system it was just incredible - I think there are certain movies where you miss something if its watched at low volume.

Ken Steadman July 20th, 2008 03:10 PM

I agree this is something I'm seeing/hearing more and more. Last week I saw 'Hot Fuzz' but the mix was unbearable bad; the vocal tracks were so low compared to everything else.

Roger Shore July 20th, 2008 03:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sherif Choudhry (Post 909826)

But theres no doubt that when i watched Saving private Ryan loudly on my system it was just incredible - I think there are certain movies where you miss something if its watched at low volume.


I think that just goes to prove the point - if a soundtrack is mixed for the cinema, it is designed to be played loudly, and just as importantly, in a big space!

In theory, it should really be remixed for TV or DVD. Whether it often happens is another matter. I wonder how many people in the business actually take notice of the details in documents like this for example? (warning:before you open it I should tell you it's 106 pages long, and like wading through treacle!:-)

http://www.dolby.com/assets/pdf/tech...Guidelines.pdf


Which is why I suspect most of it is probably ignored.

Now if you really want to hear easy to understand dialogue, you need to play those 70's and 80's TV series like 'Columbo' and 'Quincy MD'.

Listen to that dialogue through headphones --cuts your ears off!

In my experience the kind of program favoured by the older viewers, whose hearing is perhaps less than pristine. To quote an elderly relative - ' how nice to be able to hear the words, without upsetting my neighbours!'

Not a very fashionable way of recording dialogue recording any more, I fear.

Jack Smith July 20th, 2008 08:00 PM

Interesting thread.Do you listen to stereo, 5.1, DTS or other?
Are your speakers all in phase?
I haven't noticed this very often( small scenes seemingly done for a a purpose) and I'm in the ............ less than pristine ear group.

Michael Wisniewski July 20th, 2008 10:06 PM

I agree about the sound levels. But I wonder if it won't help to acoustically treat a living room. Most people just shove their TV / speakers against the wall which generally creates horrible noise cancelling/increasing reflections all over the place. I notice it's much easier to hear movies in my acoustically treated studio. My living room has the normal blank dry wall all around. I've been thinking about putting up sound absorbing panels and buying a nice large rug to put in front of the TV to see if that helps.

Michael Wisniewski July 20th, 2008 10:10 PM

But I do agree, the sound levels are a problem above and beyond treating your viewing room.

George Kroonder July 20th, 2008 11:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Michael Wisniewski (Post 909961)
a nice large rug to put in front of the TV to see if that helps.

Won't that make it difficult to SEE the movie?

George/

Ervin Farkas July 21st, 2008 05:12 AM

I think Michael refers to a rug in front of the TV... on the hardwood floor.

To absorb unwanted sound reflections.

Jack Smith July 21st, 2008 10:06 PM

Michael, do you use stereo, 5.1 or DTS ?
DTS and 5.1 are encoded for center channel vocals(mainly), whereas 5.1 thru stereo you would lose most of the center channel ( vocals ) unless resetting the audio options of the DVD.
Just can't help thinking that this an audio setup problem and not that Hollywood is going backwards.
Any other specific movies that show this problem?

Bill Mecca July 22nd, 2008 12:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Roger Shore (Post 909872)
...
In my experience the kind of program favoured by the older viewers, whose hearing is perhaps less than pristine...


gee, wonder if their hearing is subpar because they have movie watching induced tinnitus? even in the theatre, do they really need to blow you out of your seat with the music and effects? I mean an explosion is one thing, but when the music drowns out the dialogue, what's the point?

Bill Davis July 25th, 2008 10:03 PM

From what I recall, this is PRECISELY why George Lucas forced the theatre industry to adopt THX sound systems if they wanted to exhibit his content.

He was tired of trying to sound design his movies while never knowing what kind of amplification/speaker array/room environment the films would be played in.

So he said "here are my specs (THX) and if you want to show my movies, the theater has to adhere to them."

Now you take those tracks and burn them to a DVD (easy) - but you expect them to sound great no matter where or on what they're being played?

Sure it would be nice if the DVD displayed a splash screen with a hundred check boxes ranging from PLAYBACK ON: Professional $5000.00 Home Theater w/ dedicated 1000 watt subwoofeers - or Costco $299 "home theater" with plastic subwoofer - or "Korean dvd/tv combo set in the wall of my RV - but that just isn't going to happen.

Audio is complex.

In movies, it's mixed for movie theaters.

So you have two choices. Outfit your home like an actual movie theatre. Or set up an audio playback system where you watch movies where you can AT LEAST control the sound enough to fix issues like poor dialog reproduction if that's what your system creates.

And yep, that might mean just realizing that most of the dialog is coming from the center channel and you selected the the 5.1 surround sound choice not realizing that the center channel pair of wires are the ones you never got around to hooking up!

Or it might be that the dialog, being typically center panned MONO - might be getting hosed because you're playing it back on a pair of stereo speakers that are (user error!) hooked up out of phase. (Hint, the wires have a stripe on one conductor for a REASON!) That would be a really common way to get crappy dialog reproduction in a real world living room environment.

This is precisely why I've never delivered a professional video job with anything other than MONO audio unless it was a critical client requirement in a specific circumstance.

(And even then I typically argue against it!)

The more audio tracks you're working with, the more chances you have for things to get really screwed up.

End of story.

Lorinda Norton July 26th, 2008 01:43 AM

Bill, does it ever get to be a burden knowing so much about so many things? (heh heh)

That was a very interesting read. I learned a lot, but not enough to help me...would you come to my house and fix the audio mess with the big TV in my living room?

...Just giving you trouble, big guy. I really did enjoy your post. :)

Richard Alvarez July 26th, 2008 03:27 AM

Side track but relevant true story -

I was working full time in radio, overnight shift - back in the eighties.

Got a call from someone at two in the morning, complaining that I was playing the music 'wrong'.

"Wrong? What do you mean?"

"Well, I HAVE that record, and the violins are supposed to be in the LEFT channel..."

"OH- well, what part of town do you live in?"

"I live on the north side... why?"

"Well, if you lived on the south side, they'd be in the other channel."

"OH! Okay - I didn't know that, THANKS"


(I'm cruel in the middle of the night...)

Brian Drysdale July 26th, 2008 08:22 AM

When I was going around film festivals with one of my shorts (on a 35mm print with Dolby SR), I noticed that at quite a few venues the shorts with Dolby surround sound had a weaker centre channel. This compared to the same films were screened in a cinema correctly set up for surround sound, when the centre was OK.

The Dolby SR played fine regardless.

Bill Davis July 28th, 2008 05:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lorinda Norton (Post 912145)
Bill, does it ever get to be a burden knowing so much about so many things? (heh heh)

That was a very interesting read. I learned a lot, but not enough to help me...would you come to my house and fix the audio mess with the big TV in my living room?

...Just giving you trouble, big guy. I really did enjoy your post. :)


Lorinda,

Don't sweat it. I know about you Idaho types. All that rugged individualism and insanely beautiful scenery makes you all a little nuts when it comes to public discourse.

(Come to think of it, I guess the same stuff makes us Arizonan's equally wacky. Go figure!)

BTW, given another half hour more writing time, I could have made that an even MORE overwritten and complicated explanation. So be grateful I needed to get some sleep that night!

Take care.

J. Stephen McDonald August 9th, 2008 01:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Richard Alvarez (Post 905378)
How many people who feel this way are over forty?

Seriously.

Actually, people over 40 generally have better hearing than those who are younger. The older folks haven't deadened their ears by going to as many rock concerts or using headphones at high volumes for all their lives. And this is seriously true. The worse the ears of young people are damaged, the louder they play the music and the cycle escalates. An investment in hearing-aid manufacturing would be a good bet for the future. Warnings about this are taken about as seriously as those about the dangers of illegal drugs.


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