Tips on paning
 

Any tips on a good (if not proper) way to do a 365 degree pan? I've tried walking around the tripod but felf the move a bit jerky - I've tried sitting down underneath the tripod and turing the head with a little better results. I'm open to any and all suggestions.

I would ask myself if that kind of a pan really is needed. A pan longer than 90 degrees will leave the viewer disorientated, and as you said, it will be difficult in making it smooth.

But if you do need it, it is just a case of trial and error. Just remember to make it really slow - otherwise it wouldn't make sense to have it at all...

Good luck anyway
Jon

On the rare occasion I need a 360 degree pan I walk it around. The jerkiness is probably the result of having to step around the legs of the tripod. I extend the tripods pan handle so that I can walk without tripping over the legs. If you handle does not extend, I suggest getting a tube or pipe and fastening it to the handle with gaffers tape.

Thanks for the replies. I'm thinking that in the middle of nowhere I might want to give the viewer the impression of being isolated thus the 360 pan. I guess that I can clean any jerky moves up in editing. Again thanks - also sorry I posted in the wrong spot! I guess I'm still feeling my way around here.

Don:

Because the viewer "sees" the image in a very different way psychologically than the camera, making a full 360 pan does necessarily have the same effect as if one was standing in that environment. It can be an interesting thing to do visually for one reason or another, but after 180 degrees or so the viewer has lost track of where in the rotation the camera is seeing, something that we as humans retain if we were to spin in place. You can probably achieve the effect you are looking for with a few well-composed shots cut together in a montage, as well as careful sound design.

i agree with Charles. if the person was drugged, in a crowded, chaotic environment, then it might be a good effect to throw in there. i would personally use cuts of the character looking left and right with L/R POV shots in between.

Don,

Excuse me if I don't know what I am talking about, but would something like this Bescor MP-101 motorized pan head do the job fairly cheap?

http://www.bescor.com/Accessories/tripods.htm

Thanks

Carl

Thank-you one and all for all the responses. All have given me information and made me think and rethink my "project". Once again this board has come to the forefront with its knowledge. I currently have 31 years experience in aviation security. I can sleep eat and do anything concerning this subject. HOWEVER, I've got less than 1 year experience in this endevor. This all a long winded way of saying thank-you.

None of the inexpensive power pan heads actually turn 360 degrees.

The Bescor does about 190, the Sunpack does 90.

There is a full 360 pan head somewhere out there. The real estate guys use them for the quick and dirty home tours for realtors.

The continuous rotation is to me, very uncomfortable . . . disorienting really.

I believe most of not all motion picture 'look-arounds' are of the pan and stop category. The camera pans about 90 degrees from a former position and then stops to allow the audience to look.

??Panning??,
 

If you have a "padded" situation, you can do the 360 without too much problem. By padded, I mean a shot where you are not constantly adjusting the frame. You suggest that you will be showing lonelyness.

Might I suggest the following: Tie a string (cord) to the pan handle. Walk your self around the shot, with the head locked horizontally. Make the line long enough to avoid your shadow('s).

No gurantee that this will solve your problem; but, you know the situation better than any one else.

It will probably take a few runs at it. Pratice makes perfect.

Yeah, just to add my .02, if you want the viewer to seem disoriented etc. then maybe a handheld pan that is a little jerky and stops at certain places would make more of a perspective disorientation "frantic" shot. But I could just be a moron :D

Is there a reason why these Bescor products are so cheap? I
haven't seen a fluid head tripod for that amount of money here
yet etc.

Yes, I'm also VERY curious about these Bescor tripods. If they aren't completely terrible and are in fact a fluid head, wouldn't this be a great choice for a beginning tripod? The TX-25 is still a fluid head and seem great for 5lb and under dv camcorders and only costs 60 bucks! I might look into a tx-25...

Anyone on this? Why are they so "cheap"? Any handson
experience anyone?

Having rethought my plan I can see where it would not be the best course to do a 360 pan. 90 to 180 appears to fit what I'm attempting to do - show the vastness of the great SW. Thanks again.

Hello Don,
Well you've certainly struck-up quite a thread. Re: "...the vastness of the great SW" the late John Ford's westerns come immediately to my mind. He managed to to show immense space and grandeur with relatively few, and generally narrow, pans. His favorite location was Monument Valley (UT). His "trick" was to always introduce elements of human-scale into his shots. A line of riders, appearing like an ant trail, moving through an immense mountain-surrounded plain.

The brain processes scale by using cues.

Ken, you had me going there for a moment. When you said Utah, I was quite surprised. I've done some taping in Monument Valley (AZ), but was unaware that a part of it extended into Utah. I did a quick search on Google and turned up this map.

I bet $1 with myself that someone would note that geographic anomaly. In honesty, I don't know which side of the park Mr. Ford preferred and I've never visited either side (although I look forward to such a trek). But my readings of John Ford lore over the years have always referred to Utah, even though most of the park is clearly in Arizona. <shrug>

Monument Valley and right down the road from there is Valley of the Gods... all places that I want to return to in order to capture on tape (DV). That entire area there is just awesome. As soon as anyone mentions Monument Valley most people think about the two Johns – Ford and Wayne. There are equal spots throughout the South West that I want/need to capture both for myself and a project that has been forming in my head for a while. Being retired soon and relocating to Tucson area I’ll have plenty of time to visit these places and hopefully do some justice to the beauty of the area. If so I might do a “travel channel” type of show to put on DVD and tape for those poor soles that have never seen this area. So with this being said, most of my questions will regard shooting in a remote area for extended periods of time (see my question on power). I cannot say it enough this site is great!

Just another suggestion, instead of panning more than 90, consider panning much less but with a wide angle adaptor. What cam do you have? Tiffen makes a great wide angle, depending what cam you have.

I'm afraid I am one of those poor (and lost?) souls, Don. It must
be great to live in that kind of an area where you can drive around
and get all sorts of different terrain.

Only flat grasslands here (mostly)....

Frank - The camera is a new XL-1s with satndard lens. I've thought about getting a wide angle but must save my pennies first. I also thought about the adapter but was going to hold off on that question for a later date (is it worth it etc.)

Rob - Ya ought to come south and see this country. I have been around the world several times (31 years with the federal government) and have see many wondulfu sights - but they all pale to what the South West offers. (I am not attempting to anger anyone - this is just my personal thoughts!)

I hope, Don, that one day I will. If you run into a strange dutch
guy with an XL1s and sunglasses it might be me :)

Any update on 360 degree panning?
 

Please excuse me pulling this old thread out, but it is the most relevant I have found here.

I understand the potential for making viewers dizzy, but do need to carry out 360 degree shots from several hill tops!

Has anyone found/used a reasonable head mount like the Bescor that does 360 smoothly, and in about 2 to 5 minutes?

I am also looking into CCTV drives as a possibility.

Richard

Don't know if this will help Richard's situation or not, but Jeff Donald actually had the best suggestion to accomplish a 360 degree rotatation manually, that is, to extend the pan handle. Use a reasonable quality tripod, be sure it's level, frame up the shot and lock off the vertical/tilt control, and set any pan drag adjustment at medium to heavy drag. The pan handle should be approximately parallel to the ground or horizon. Add a length of any reasonable material to the pan handle, held in place with gaffer tape or electrical tape. The material can be as simple as a piece of wood dowel. The length should be around three feet, but you can experiment with any length you choose.

Once you are set up, what you want to do is roll tape, move to the end of the extension, and begin a slow, steady walk around the tripod, maintaining the same pace once you step up to speed. If you need the beginning of the move, you will have to take care on your initial step out,till you get up to speed. But if you can cut into the move at any time, just try to maintain a steady speed, and even go past your start mark so as to give yourself a bit of wiggle room when you edit the piece.

When you edit the pan shot you can slow it down or speed it up, if there are no moving objects in the frame.

Years ago, when we were still operating professional video cameras with mechanical zoom lenses, I would on rare occasion use this same device with the zoom lens' hand crank. One of the best zoom moves I ever did was starting on Gregory Peck walking across the stage at Radio City Music Hall. As he walked and talked, I did a very slow pullback, eventually revealing the spectacular proscenium arch of the Music Hall. Two things made the shot work as well as it did: one, I taped a dowel to the hand crank, so I could "gear down" the pullback and maintain the slow pace more easily, and two, I asked the director to have Mr. Peck walk across the stage at the beginning of the move so as to mask the start of the pullback. Originally, G.P. was seated in a director's chair, stage center, and there was no way to hide the beginning of the pullback from a static subject, but once he was in motion, the pullback seemed less obvious. And the length of dowel added to the mechanical hand crank made the zoom much smoother than I could ever have done with just the hand crank. (The length of dowel allowed me to circumscribe a larger diameter circle, which is exactly what would be done in the 360 degree pan) Hope this makes sense.

Wayne Orr, SOC

Thanks Wayne,

Yes, the approach you suggest makes a lot of sense. Especially as 360 job will only happen a few times and likely no more!

Had another thought too. Have you seen the turntables used for food dishes at Chinese banquets? Made me think I could make a similar turntable device to mount on the tripod and manually turn that??? Or use a small motor?? :)

Best regards.
Richard

Old record players were often in use at TV studios as a rotating device. If you could find one with the slower 33 1/3 or even the 16 RPM (I think that was the number), or use different gearing, etc.

Place it on a platform and set the camcorder flat on it Let it go a few revs to make sure you have a clean shot.

Maybe? And good luck finding a turntable that's operational these days. Might have to make your own. Use a slow motor.

Sean McHenry