how does the LS-38 compare to the Vinten pro 6?

Libec ls-38 and miller solo
 

I mention early in this thread that I'd report back on the compatibility of the Libec ls-38 and miller solo:

I just bought the Libec LS-38 head ($350US)
and the Miller Solo graphite legs ($470US).
They combo fits just like they were made for each other.
I think they're great in comparison to anything in this price range.
The head has a very nice build quality, and it's movement is comparable to a class of heads selling for 3-5x the price.
Solo sticks are just awesome for run-and-gun shooting, and suitable for most applications. They set up so easily, and the build quality is quickly evident after a short time using them. At less than $900, the combo is very attractive.

So you're not having the bounceback issues Bill Pryor mentioned above? ("With an expensive tripod, you can pan and stop and remove your hand from the handle and everything stays right where it is. With the cheaper ones, you take the pressure off, and there's just a little bit of bounceback, ie., it will shift back to the left or right a tiny fraction. ")

I have now tried the 503 head with a Canon XH A1 (which has 20X zoom), and the bounceback at the end of the pan is very visible.

I concur on the panning action. It is smooth, and at the end of a pan, there is very little backlash in either direction. I did my tests at 20x on an alphanumeric chart. However, depending on how much downward pressure you put on the pan bar, I can feel some uneveness in the rotation surfaces, as though there were tiny grains of sand or metal lodged in the pseudo-fluid plates. It is hard to describe in words, but if you have one of these heads. rotate it a full 360 deg and see if you can sense the slight grit in opposing surfaces as they slide past each other.

As for the tilt, I'd rate it average. After you balance your camera (mine is an XH-A1) on the head, there is a tendency to return to level from a tilted forward or backward position. The mechanism is spring loaded, and as mentioned, there is no adjustment. In the soft region, the head will stay where you put it, but beyond that, be prepared to lock down, or keep holding on to the bar.

The soft kit bag is too small. Once the rubber feet are attached, you have to jiggle the legs to get the bag to zip up. This is annoying.

So overall, I'd say this is not a perfect head/tripod combo, but for under $700, it seems like a good buy. I can easily live with some of these flaws for the price, and spend my money on more important things.

Haven't experienced that "sand grit" feel, if I were you I'd probably get on the phone with libec, it sounds like they have good customer support and could talk you through simple fixes. Apparently, it is a true fluid head, so either something is just slightly off, or it's defective.

As for the balance - what you're experiencing is a balance spring which is too strong for your camera. The A1 falls more into the weight range of the LS-22, not the 38. All tripods with fixed or adjustable springs have certain limits to what they can balance. Even then, the balance may be limited to +- 60 or +- 30 degrees. Outside those limitations, you'll feel either slippage or creep back to horizontal. Usually the true balance range is fairly small, within about 4-5lbs of the rated load. In your case, the A1 is just too light, and the C.G. of the camera is too low for the tripod to balance it with the fixed spring. You could adjust either or both, and you'll find that the behavior of the tripod is entirely different and more to your liking. Try accessorizing your camera, rods, matteboxes, even wireless mic receivers taped to the carry handle. If these aren't things you own, try this:

Go to a hardware store and buy a bar of steel 3-4" wide, about 1/4" thick. They should be able to cut it for you, but use this formula: The density of steel is .290 Lb/Cu. Inch. With 1/4" steel 4" wide by 17.25" long, you'll get about 5lbs. If it seems too long and out of control, double the thickness and half the length. Drill 2 holes in the center, one 1/4" all the way through, and the other using a tap-kit only a little ways in. Tap that hole to 1/4"-20. Counter-sink the first hold, and get a 1/4" screw that sticks through just enough to catch your cam. Now you have a universal weight plate for your camera. This is actually a GREAT thing to have. Most bottom-end tripod heads are meant to balance 11lbs minimum, so with this plate you should be able to use just about any pro-level head. The ls-38 is a fantastic deal, and it performs beautifully when you load it enough. If you're worried about losing the quick-release feature, buy a cheap bogen QR adapter. It'll snap on and off exactly at your pre-balanced point every time.

Obviously, this seems like a lot of work to make the balance feature usable, but its actually what you'd have to go through with any pro-level head and that camera - even the sachtler dv6-sb can't truly balance it (and that head is crap anyways). Your camera is just too light! Throw a 5lb weight plate in your kit, and you'll notice a world of difference in the way all heads behave.

Has anyone tried this tripod with the XL-H1 (front-heavy). I am looking for a new tripod and this one is definately an option. Libec says it is for camcorders in the 4 - 8 kg category. The Canon XL-H1 weighs around 4 kg. So if I add microphones, a light and an anton bauer (for example) I would say I will end up somehwere around 6 or 7 which should work. The Libec LS-60 is rated 8 - 13. This means that the XL-H1 might be a little bit too light. Or it could mean that I do not have to adjust the plate forward/backward... I am not sure.

I've heard the XL will work fine with that tripod, but it's better if you have the Canon quick release plate so you can get the camera adjusted fore and aft for good balance.

Thanks Bill. I already own a Canon quick-release plate so that is a plus. I am just not sure whether the LS-38 or the LS-55 is the right tripod for me. Money is not the problem but it makes no sense to pay more if there is no real advantage. The LS-55 has the same qualities as the LS-38 (judging the specifications) and adds a two-step drag mode and 2 KG more maximum weight. But the range is 4 - 10 so I suppose 7 is the sweet spot where it is 6 for the LS-38. So how useful is the two-step drag mode? I think that is the only major difference.

For what it's worth, I've been following this thread since I picked up a Libec T57 tripod with an H35 head on it through ebay. I wanted something a little lighter than my Bogen 316 (Which is a great, but HEAVY head on the 3193 sticks)

I got a deal on the Libec (300) so I can say I'm overall pleased. It IS smaller/lighter than the Bogen. VERY fluid, no 'bounceback'. I do miss the 'adjustability' of a friction nob. The releases are either on, or off... no 'adjusting' on this head. So the 55 with variability would be nice. And definitely having the Canon quick release plate would come in handy. I don't need it on the Bogen, but on the libec, there is very little adjustment in the plate. I CAN balance the camera with just the 3x and Fu-2000 on it. But when I add the FU 1000 and the 16x manual (My usual setup) I definitely need to add the BP 910 with dual battery packs. It balances fine like this however, so it's not a big issue.

Not a bad combo, but I think they may have discontinued the H35 head?

Anyone else heard/have info about Libec moving their distribution site to CA and availability suffering? Wanting to get an LS-38M (2A), but sounds like it may be some time before they are available again. Bummer.

I tried ordering an LS-22 from Zotz last week and was told something along these lines. They said it'd probably be about 3 weeks until they'd be able to make the order.

BTW, during the time it takes Libec to get their distribution issues straightened out, I guess I get to re-visit the internal debate I had re: which Libec tripod I should get for my A1, the LS-22 or the LS-38.

Haven't heard the time estimate before, but I'm gonna wait them out. I've seen both tripods (22 & 38) and really want to go for the sturdier 38. I've bought the "next best" before when what I really wanted wasn't available and my experience is usually not positive when I do that. I still have a $599.00 quote from TapeWorks Texas.

Let us know if you find one sooner.

After waiting an extra week or two due to the distributor moving, I received my Libec LS-38m (mid level spreader). I dont have a lot of experience to post a really knowledgable review, but since I started this thread I thought I'd provide some comments.

Out of the box I was a little concerned. A LOT of plastic parts, especially on the legs (locks, hinges, etc). The 2 page manual is the worst translated thing I have ever seen. I though the Japanese were past this, but it was amazingly bad. Useless for putting the parts together. I eventually figured everything out.

The big pads that go over the spikes (which also have rubber boots) could be real handy in the studio. But they attach with rubber handles of the type I have found to wear out and break with extended use. There is no lock once everything is folded up but I have found no tendency for the tripod to unfold, even when carried by one leg. It seems reasonably light for its bulk.

The mid-level spreader is a bit strange. I am not too confident of the strength of its attachement points to the legs. It has a knob that you have to turn to open it up. It can lock at 45 of 90 degrees. It can also extend its length a bit, but not much. Perhaps all this adjustability will come in handy, but it seems more than is really necessary to fiddle with at the moment.

The tripod is quite sturdy on initial use without being particuarly heavy. But definitely not a run-n-gun type set up in terms of speed. The leg locks turn all the way to lock. I hope they dont loosen up with use.

For an extreme test, I took it outside and spent 30 minutes trying to keep up with my kids shooting baskets, at close range, in 24p. I was not too worried about the one speed on pan and tilt because I just wanted something that was smooth. I'd rather spend my time trying to maintain focus on my HDV cam! The head did not disappoint. I thought it was extremely steady and smooth while firehosing my A1 all over pan and tilt. The resistance was just right to keep things as smooth as could be expected under these conditions. I am very happy with this result.

The sliding plate arrangement is OK. I like that it is plenty big but the camera can still slip around while mounted, and I dont like that the camera mount screw cannot be hand tightened, you need a coin or screw driver.

If you pan all the way up or down and let go, the fixed tension will smoothly return the A1 toward level. Not a problem for me, I am just glad it doesn't try to dump the camera when all the way down. The tension is actually a nice feedback feature to remind me that I am reaching the end of the tilt range. Holding it against the tension at full tilt is easy enough. You can also lock it down there. Centering the weight is easy with the sliding plate, even on this rather front-heavy camera.

In all I think this tripod will suit my rather simple and unhuried needs for something steady and smooth for my A1. I have some concerns about durability of the leg parts.

Compared to the <$1200 Schactlers, Vintens, Cartonis, etc that I have played with at shows, I would say the Libec38 is considerably simpler, steadier, and smoother but a bit plasticy, bulky, and akward yet not heavier.

I would not reccomend it for rough or ENG use but it should be fine for studio and indie filmmaking.

I bought it from Tapeworks Texas and they treated me decently, given the delay from the shipper.

Just received my LS-38. This is my first decent tripod having only used cheap Velbons before.

First impression is that it's very sturdy and smooth although I was a bit disappointed by the plastic bits on the legs. I'm using a Sony HDR-FX1 on top and it seems fine even though the camera's only about half the minimum weight recommended for the tripod. There is a bit of bounce back when panning and then stopping which I expect is due to the light weight of the camera. I might experiment with adding a steel plate to load the tripod up a bit as suggested in an earlier post.

I managed to buy the LS-38 at a very good price in the UK through GlobalMediaPro. It means it's a grey import but they still give it a 1 year guarantee. As I only paid £340 including VAT and import taxes I thought it very good value when most suppliers are quoting £399 exc Vat.

Are you referring to those little plasting caps on the feet? They're supposed to be taken off, and you put on the nonskid pads or the ground spreader if you went that route. Mine came with a midlevel spreader and the nonskid feet.

I got the floor spreader with mine and don't recall seeing any non-skip feet.

In referring to the plasticky bits I meant the locking knobs on the leg extensions. They're ok and are probably sturdy enough but the finish could be a bit better.

I'm bumping this thread because I just got mine and it rocks!
Everything in that review was spot on, no bounce back! I was worried about dishing out 600 bones for a tripod system that will give me bounce back, Something many systems in this price range seem to suffer from. Well not this tripod on pans. It does happen on the extreme tilts up and down, just as the review said, but I rarely ever do that movement. Over all It's a fine tripod for the money, good build quality, feels solid and sturdy, and just enough features to make it an intuitive and easy to operate device. My only negative is its color. I wish it were black instead, but that by on means is a deal breaker.

that is what is keeping me from making the purchase...black is definitely more professional, but when you are on a budget, you need performance!

What difference does the color make if it's functional and works for your needs?
I use one with my beta and xl-2 package. I could care less what color it is.

Grey is OK!!!
 

Actually, I quite like the mid/dark grey (that's gray to our American friends) of the Libec tripods! Black is so "non descript" these days!

I only have the Libec TH-650 but the price/performance mix is excellent (about 150 quid in the UK.) I'm very happy with it on all but "full zoom" shots where it's not quite got the weight and stability needed (if you start fiddling around with the camera settings.)

But then I'm only too glad when I pack it up and walk home as it's really light in weight - unlike my camera bag which seems to be getting heavier every time I go out with all the sound and video equipment I'm slowly acquiring!