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-   -   HD vs SD for wildlife filming (https://www.dvinfo.net/forum/under-water-over-land/404886-hd-vs-sd-wildlife-filming.html)

Tony Davies-Patrick October 26th, 2009 02:02 PM

Yes, Simon can often be seen using the Sony HVR-Z7E plus Canon HJ40 lens on the Springwatch and now on the Autumnwatch series.

Steve Phillipps October 26th, 2009 03:00 PM

Sorry Tony, when you said "I think almost all the six-part 'Natures Great Events' was filmed using mainly the HDC-1500" it implied the whole thing rather than just aerials.

Steve

Tony Davies-Patrick October 26th, 2009 03:30 PM

No problem at all, Steve, we were both correct. :)

Not that it matters of course, because I'm sure that both the Sony and Panosonic cameras mentioned could be used to film all the series from air & ground level and produce stunning footage that would be hard to tell apart on a HD screen.

Crazy when you think of it though, that the majority of people worldwide who watched that series and the latest 'Live' series, actually watched it in SD and not HD. Each of those HD cameras cost around £50,000 or more each, not including all the extras.

Steve Phillipps October 26th, 2009 03:38 PM

Well actually the Sonys couldn't do it really, as they don't have slomo, that's why we use Varicams.
I think most viewers would be amazed at just how much off-speed material is shot, even if it's just 30-40fps to take the edge of the movement of camera and subject. It's only when shooting ultra highspeed with Phantoms and the like that people even realise it's happening. Flying birds for example are almost always shot in slomo (virtually 100%) usually at 60fps or so, even though it looks "normal" speed to the viewer.
Steve

Bob Thompson October 26th, 2009 03:58 PM

Jonathan,

I have both the Canon XL2 and the Canon 7D. The XL2 I have used for years and is permanently fixed to a Canon 300 mm f 2.8 FD lens. I have mainly used it for bird photography and as one of the other posters has mentioned you are always looking for more focal length. The main problem with such extreme focal lengths is Heat Haze and vibration, I use it with a Satchler studio 7+7 tripod head and if there are any "older gentlemen" on this thread they will know that this tripod head weights a ton but is excellent in following action.

I have just come back from a camping trip this weekend and was using the Canon 7D, like you I am wanting to cheaply upgrade my personal stock-footage library to include some HD shots. The first and most serious problem I encountered with the 7D was Viewfinder. The LCD is extremely difficult to see in bright sun conditions, so you would need to factor in the cost of an external LCD finder. The camera is excellent in doing time-lapse (by taking a series of stills), I tested it with a time-lapse of a rock formations and moon/stars and was shooting the time-lapse with a 60 sec exposure.

You have a very difficult decision to make, mainly do you go SD or HD. I think if it was just for my reel I would go SD 16:9 using the Canon XL2. The HD market is changing so rapidly I think you could buy one of the many HD cameras already mentioned, at half their price in a year or so time.

Bob

Steve Phillipps October 26th, 2009 04:06 PM

Never thought of myself as an "older gentleman" Bob, but I suppose I must be as I know the Studio 7+7 well and you're right, it's an excellent head, old-school tough, about 10kg but worth carrying!
Steve

Bob Thompson October 26th, 2009 04:15 PM

For those that have not reached the "gentlemanly" age, the satchler will take a load of up to 110lbs and has a 150mm bowl

Bob

Bob Thompson October 26th, 2009 04:32 PM

Jonathon,

This link will give you an idea of what you could capture using a 7D in stills and video mode.

This video was shot on a 5D Mark 2 by Sandesh Kadur and in my opinion is an excellent example of combining both stills & video.

YouTube - Canon 5D Mark 2 - Wildlife - stills and HD 1080P

Bob

Tony Davies-Patrick October 27th, 2009 06:58 AM

Not bad, but the content of Sandesh Kadur's clip didn't impress me much. The quality of the video sections were very low to my eyes, even disregarding the jagged edges and ghosting during movements, with subdued colours and very soft - with a lack of impact in the footage. Obviously this was partly due to the webstream. I also feel that even the still images were OK, but nothing special.

Bob Thompson October 27th, 2009 07:10 AM

Tony,

I agree with your comments on the quality but it does show that you can structure a video using stills & video with just one camera. I feel Jonathan is looking for a low cost approach and this may give him some thoughts.

By using a cheap Canon 400mm f5.6 lens and shooting in raw you can obtain huge crops which are acceptable when edited with the video

Tony Davies-Patrick October 27th, 2009 09:41 AM

I completely agree with you on that note, Bob, and that is why I'll be looking very closely at the Nikon D3s, Canon D1 Mk IV during the winter (and Nikon D4 next year). At some destinations I have to cut down on weight and bulk of my equipment. I hope to be able to carry a couple of DSLR bodies with me during a few of my future expeditions instead of the need to carry one complete system for video and another for stills images on the same trip.

Although I have yet to be convinced that any of the DSLRs so far released offer enough in terms of handling and sound options to make me give up my camcorder systems.

Sabyasachi Patra April 12th, 2010 01:12 AM

I have been photographing with the Mark IV and trying to record clips whenever there is a fine natural history moment. In the past, I have regretted not having the ability to record video, as I have seen many rare behaviour that has not been seen before.

This camera is certainly promising with shallow depth of field, and high quality HD. It is easier with one system to record clips as well as stills. However, if I suddenly need to change to slow motion, it won't be possible. I have to stop, delve into the menu and change it and then shoot. Sound is a major issue I am grappling with at the moment. Refinements will come with time, however, I must say that this is promising and exciting.

Bob Thompson April 15th, 2010 12:11 AM

Actually I am suprised that nobody has mentioned the Panasonic GH1, it has a 2x crop and there are plenty of adaptors for most available lenses. The downside is the codec / data rate is not up with the Canon 7D & 5D Mark 2.

Are there any members of the forum using this camera?

Sabyasachi Patra April 15th, 2010 04:12 AM

The excitement is due to the bigger sensors in DSLRs. The smaller sensors of the Pansonic with their higher depth of fields completely negate the shallow dof excitement. My 2 cents.

Gordon Hoffman April 15th, 2010 07:45 PM

Hi Bob
I have been using the GH1. It was the cheapest way for me to get into to HD at the time and have the ability to change lens. So far I have been fairly happy with it. I don't have anything to really compare it to. I came from the original XL1.

Gordon

Peter Rhalter April 16th, 2010 03:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sabyasachi Patra (Post 1514547)
The excitement is due to the bigger sensors in DSLRs. The smaller sensors of the Pansonic with their higher depth of fields completely negate the shallow dof excitement. My 2 cents.

I'm using a Canon D7 but I wonder: how much depth of field do you get on a GH1 with a 300mm lens? Isn't the DOF still really shallow?

Dom Greves April 20th, 2010 09:48 AM

They don't have interchangeable lenses but the new Sony NXCAMs do come with a 20x Sony G lens, lots of manual controls and a range of HD record settings in AVCHD at up to 24mbps. They're also quite a bit cheaper than the EX1.

For portability the Canon HF S100 has excellent HD image quality, and what they describe as a built-in 1.7x teleconverter - sampling full HD 1920x1080 image resolution from the middle of the sensor without digital enlargement. That gets you 17x from the 10x lens - very useful for wildlife subjects. They claim image qualty isn't reduced but I'm not entirely convinced. No viewfinder on this model but later variants have one.

Don Miller April 24th, 2010 01:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peter Rhalter (Post 1515292)
I'm using a Canon D7 but I wonder: how much depth of field do you get on a GH1 with a 300mm lens? Isn't the DOF still really shallow?

You get the same dof on every camera with a 300mm lens. It's just that with a 4/3 sensor it has the same field of view as a 5DII with a 600mm lens.
For wildlife a 4/3 sensor camera will provide dof control. I like the size from 4/3 to APS-C. Even 2/3 Scarlet with very long glass will blur the background.
IMO Canon and Nikon "full frame" sensors, as well as the 1D sensor size, are at a disadvantage with wildlife.

Dale Guthormsen April 25th, 2010 09:41 PM

Good evening,

The sony 20x g lens is nice. There is no substitute for being able to change lenses!!!

Any form of multiplier willalways damage the images, glass or otherwise.

If you ahve a fixed lens you are going to have to become an outstanding hunter, Should work on that anyway.


Dale Guthormsen


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