Re: Infrared wildlife filming at night
 

Quote: -
"They are of course only 1/3rd chip cams."

I would not rule out a small chip camera, particularly for the kingfisher project that Cees is contemplating i.e. a working distance of 10 cm.

For a while I was using a ¼” sensor on a nest box project and then changed to a 2/3” camera only to obtain inferior results. The reason was simple – I was expecting greater sensitivity with the larger sensor – something that the new camera did not have. To get the same coverage with the larger sensor I had to use longer focal length lenses that of course have less depth of field. Without a gain in sensitivity I could not improve the depth of field by stopping down. I now have more powerful sources of infrared and so could use smaller apertures but regrettably those subjects are no longer about.

Re: Infrared wildlife filming at night
 

Agree - no reason to go for large sensors when filming in IR. I once thought that large sensors would have better light sensitivity, but the size is not the most important - using C lenses are great for macro, wildlife and to give the sense of being close.

Re: Infrared wildlife filming at night
 

You don't mention which 2/3rds camera you used but your comparing it to a 5dmk2 ? Take it from me this produced the sharpest/cleanest IR images that I have seen and I've used many different IR cameras both hand op'd and remotes including hot heads. I hadn't read the start on the post and if this is a remote @ 10cms yes having a deep dof would be useful to give you a good chance of having the action you want in focus.

However if you use a 5d/7d and run it through a laptop/Eos software you would also have focus control which could be very useful. Of course you then get the benefit of using great glass and the subsequent IQ that goes with it.

"No reason to go for large sensors when filming in IR" ? - On the contrary I think that DSLRS make very good IR cameras. The BBC NHU has the converted unit I've used and that has been used on all sorts of blue chip sequences. Now a converted C300 ! - that would be sweet!

Re: Infrared wildlife filming at night
 

Another two factors to consider when selecting lenses for IR work are the coatings used on the lens elements and the coatings used on the internal components that hold the lens together. The lens coatings may absorb infrared and I understand that in the case of the supplied lens in the GoPro the Infra red cutting is achieved by the lens coating. If the coatings on the internal surfaces do not absorb enough of the extraneous light bouncing around the lens interior, image quality will suffer. I was surprised to find that the black dye that my anodiser uses reflects infrared quite effectively.

Re: Infrared wildlife filming at night
 

Mat,
What kind of IR lights did you use and how many? I hear that you need to carry big batteries?
Cheers,
Sabyasachi

Re: Infrared wildlife filming at night
 

I am using a IR converted 550d to film badgers in an urban environment. Providing that the subjects are well lit then the results are excellent. Lighting is key. The advantage with a converted DSLR is that you are not chained to an external recorder and you can be very mobile.

I am using 3 IR illuminators, cheap ones bought online. One is an IR 60 degree floodlight, plus two small IR spots (30 degrees) to punch light into the shadows. They all run off a 12v motorcycle battery which runs them for a full night. There are better lights available but these are expensive.

The whole kit goes into a camera rucksack (naturetrekker).

Re: Infrared wildlife filming at night
 

Hi James
I would love to see a clip made by your canon camera
Although I am very satisfied with my Everfocus 200 dollar camera I would still like to make the footagebetter.
This is from a everfocus camera with built-in IR diodes - this gives a very flat picture with no shadows and I would not recommend it - I have used it to see what kind of life there is in my little lake in the garden.

Re: Infrared wildlife filming at night
 

Hi Bo,

I will upload something when I get back into the office next week. Just a thought, if you were to mask off the IR Diodes (with tape or something similar) on your Everfocus camera and use external lighting from an IR illuminator then you may notice a difference. Front lighting is generally going to give a flat image with no shadows, effective but not always pretty, especially with regards to reflections/glowing in the eyes.

James

Re: Infrared wildlife filming at night
 

Hi James
I have two other IR everfocus cameraes of the same kind - without IR diodes :) I am planning to film a beaver dam so the camera with IR LED's can be used as lightning and a total of the dam, to see what is happening.
I'll look forward to see your footage :)

Re: Infrared wildlife filming at night
 

Hi Bo,

Is there a reason for this lens? It seems a bit more expensive than other lenses and has quite a large F-number as well. Is it the quality of the lens that made you chose for it?

Re: Infrared wildlife filming at night
 

Hi Cees
No special reason for choosing this lens. Some years ago I was looking at the Iconix hd-rh1 camera but I was not satisfied with the camera but the lens on the test camera was fine. When I should choose a lens I bought this lens as it also looks fine when recording in colour.
There is a lot of lenses and it is very difficult to see which quality they have - choosing a model from a wellknown brand can be the only solution. If you want to film in the nest of the kingfisher I imagine that you will have to be close to your birds so it has to be a wide.
Instead of the Iconix I bought a panasonic AG-HCK10 with a AG-HMR10 recorder - with a wideangle converter it does the daylight job of that type of recordings- I also got a UW house built for it - today you can buy a ready-made UW house.

PS. I use other cheap lenses too and they do a great job also. The scene with the cat is made with a cheap survailance lens.

Re: Infrared wildlife filming at night
 

Bo,

On what device do you record the footage of the Everfocus? I just recieved my Everfocus and am still awaiting a small monitor. Without the monitor I can't see what I am doing, but I do notice that my nanoflash is not recognising the camera. When connected it says 'no source'. Hope it is a setting in the camera that causes this problem and that it can be solved in the menu of the camera once I have the monitor.

Re: Infrared wildlife filming at night
 

Huh - ad far as I remember it output 1920x1080 25P and can be set to 30P too. Many older recorders only accept 1920x1080 50i and 1280x720 50P - which it is the standard for HD-SDI. Newer models accept 25P too. I use a Blackmagic Hyperdeck Pro to record from the camera and I consider the new Odyseey 7Q in the field. Maybe you just need to switch to pal to get 25P. Dont know if the nanoflash switch itself or need to be manual set to match the input.

Re: Infrared wildlife filming at night
 

I fear the problem is that the camera outputs 1080p, whereas the nanoflash is 1080pfs and needs an interlaced signal out of the camera to turn it into pfs frames. Hmm, didn't check this on forehand.

Can switch to 720p, but don't fancy that. May have a look at a BM Hyperdeck Shuttle, believe that can deal with true 1080p input.

Re: Infrared wildlife filming at night
 

The new Odessey 7 seems to have the same screen data as the Small HD OLED monitor so it will look great and supply a recorder too!
I know - we cannot keep investing in machines.....
I can test it with the shuttle but they should work fine together.

Re: Infrared wildlife filming at night
 

Bo, would you mind to test it for me with the shuttle, so I am sure to make good purchase?

Re: Infrared wildlife filming at night
 

Hi Cees
Just tested - The Blackmagic Hyperdeck Shuttle 2 can record the signal from the everfocus camera :)
Bo

Re: Infrared wildlife filming at night
 

Bo, Thanks!

Re: Infrared wildlife filming at night
 

Well, here I run into a problem that drives me nuts. Instead of ordering a BM Hyperdeck Shuttle I decided to go for a Samurai Blade. Because that also accepts true P input and it acts as a monitor at the same time. But when I connect the Everfocus it says; No Input. What could I possibly do wrong?

Re: Infrared wildlife filming at night
 

Just received an answer from B&H where I ordered the camera. They say: "That camera is not SMPTE 292M compliant and will not be recognized by standard HD-SDI recording devices."

Hmm. Don't get it. How can it then be that it works with the Hyperdeck Shuttle 2 (Bo) and on blackmagic capture cards (Mat)?

Re: Infrared wildlife filming at night
 

Hmmm, that doesn’t seem right (the situation- not necessarily the answer from B&H). Have you also tried to record 720P? If this is true then the Blade shouldn’t recognize it either I would think. I have the earlier model Everfocus (EQH5200) that Bo recommended in his original thread. It only outputs 1080i and 720P. My original Samurai records both from that camera with no problems. (Samurai does not record 1080P like Blade.) I would contact Atomos Support. They have been very helpful to me. Please keep us updated on whatever resolution to this problem you find.

Re: Infrared wildlife filming at night
 

Bo does however mention he has the EQH5102, the same as I do. And he did run a test with the Hyperdeck Shuttle 2, which seems to work. I can't test 720P because I need input on the monitor to change the setting and I don't get any input.

B&H does recommend this camera: http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/857378-REG/Orion_Images_CHDC_21BSDC_CHDC21_BSDC_2_1_MP_Full.html
But I am not sure if I want to take the risk (and costs) of sending back the Everfocus from Europe to the States and then get another camera sent back to me again. If I am sure the Shuttle will solve the problem I may as well return the Samurai Blade and order a Shuttle 2 with a seperate monitor from my local dealer. It will however all be pointless if it turns out that I just have a faulty camera.

Will send a message to Atomos.

Re: Infrared wildlife filming at night
 

Cees- Can you use the composite video out to get to the OSD? On my model it is a RCA but I believe on yours it is a BNC. If so, you should be able to switch the SDI out to 720P and also could at least confirm whether or not the camera is functioning.

Re: Infrared wildlife filming at night
 

Cees.
I have both everfocus cameras.. Have you tried to put a composite monitor to the test out and mess with the settings. Do not remember my settings but the camera might output 1920x1080 50p and then almost nothing can view the output!

Re: Infrared wildlife filming at night
 

Bo and Mike,

Both thanks for coming in. I do not have composite monitor. Suppose the Samurai Blade does not take in composite? Connecting the analog 'test' out of the Everfocus to the Blade gives a No Input message anyhow as well.

The everfocus can output 1080p25/30 and 720p50/60. Each of this formats is supported by the Blade, so whatever the setting in the camera is, it should be accepted by the Blade unless it is indeed an unsupported standard that is send out by the Everfocus or the camera is faulty.

Re: Infrared wildlife filming at night
 

Hi Cess
I look into the settings tomorrow. I cannot remember if the setting stated here Product Detail Page is right about the 1080 50p setting on the output! We will make it work. :)
Just checked the PDF from everfocus and it seems that 1080 50p is a misprint. Yes you should be able to get a picture out. I have not had any problems with recorders for HDSDI and the small everfocus cameras. My Panasonic P2 recorder and my black magic capture cards record the signal fine too! Both my smallHD and Panasonic monitor show the picture directly out of the cameras. Be aware that some recorders do not auto match to the input but they should manually be set to the same resolution and frames per sec.

Re: Infrared wildlife filming at night
 

No, the Blade won’t work with composite. It should detect any signal it can record and display No Input otherwise. If you don’t have a composite monitor, try connecting the camera Test out to the video input of a DVD player connected to a television. (You might need a BNC to RCA adapter.) According to the EQH5102 user manual it should default to PAL output on the test and 1080P25 on the SDI.

Re: Infrared wildlife filming at night
 

I have ordered a BNC to RCA adapter. Can't I just connect it directly to the television? Why to the dvd player that is connected to the television?

Re: Infrared wildlife filming at night
 

Yes, go directly into the television if it has the correct (composite) input. Hopefully you will be able to see the on screen display and change settings to get everything working. Don’t forget that the camera defaults to using a lens with DC iris so you will have to change that also to use a manual lens if needed.

Re: Infrared wildlife filming at night
 

Received the BNC to RCA adapter and connected the camera to my television. That works. So I have access to the OSD menu now. Tried every output setting. 1080p30, 1080p25, 720p60, 720p50. No input in the Samurai Blade. This supports the statement of B&H that this camera will not be recognised by standard HD-SDI recording devices. But on the other hand this can't be true since you guys seem to be able to work with it. So I am stuck now.

Re: Infrared wildlife filming at night
 

All the surveilance cameraes with HD-SDI out I have tested, do work with Professionel HD-SDI equipment.
They do not gurantee it - but it works. Do you have a converter from HD-DI to HDMI to check with a lowcost monitor that it do send out a signal on the HD-SDI out or any kind of monitor with HD-SDI? You are welcome to send the camera to me and I'll test it!

Re: Infrared wildlife filming at night
 

Also, I recommend you hook that Samurai Blade to another HD-SDI source and verify it is working properly. I can’t understand why Everfocus would make the output of that camera nonstandard and what it is designed to work with if they did. Sorry about all the problems you are having- wish I were more help.

Re: Infrared wildlife filming at night
 

Hi guys

I'm heading out to Namibia in January to film a sequence of Golden Moles (and a few other things). Looks like we are shooting in IR and using the converted 5d again. If we can get them to except some white light we might try the C300.

Has anyone come across or knows of anywhere that has an IR converted C300?

Cheers
Mat

Re: Infrared wildlife filming at night
 

An IR converted C300? Now that is a very interesting idea. If you shoot with one, Mat, please share the details.

I’ve been wondering if anyone here has experience illuminating with an IR laser like, for example, this one:

2W Professional Portable Infrared (808nm) Nightvision Laser Illuminator - Detailed item view - OdicForce Lasers Online Shop

Re: Infrared wildlife filming at night
 

Bo, Thanks for your offer to test my camera. I have however tested every possible setting. Also the 720p to both the Samurai Blade and my Nanoflash. Nothing works. Both devices capture the HD-SDI signal from my FS700, so it is clearly the Everfocus camera that is the problem.

Received a message from Atomos that their product works with the Everfocus EQH5201, but they don't know about the EQH5102 (be aware of the slightly different model number).

I will send the camera back to B&H and work out another solution.

Re: Infrared wildlife filming at night
 

I would be interested to hear about the IR C300. I am shooting with a IR converted 5D III. Lighting is a challenge though. I have a mix of Bosch UFLED and other cheaper LED stuff. What kind of LED lights are you guys using?

Re: Infrared wildlife filming at night
 

Hi Sabyasachi

Still haven't found anyone with an IR converted C300!

We are using Bosch lights of two diferent angles.

Bosch UFLED
Bosch UFLED10-8BD CCTV camera lighting Specifications | Bosch CCTV camera lighting - SourceSecurity.com

Cheers
Mat

Re: Infrared wildlife filming at night
 

Cees - how did it go with you everfocus camera. Did you get an answer if it was faulty?

Have someone tried the difference between 940nm and 850nm IR light. The 850 nm light give a visible lamp with a red glow. The 940 nm IR lamp are not visibel - I'm told. I have noticed that the foxes and beech marten (Martes foina) are afraid of the red IR lamp on 850nm. They get used to it but it can take several days and they probably only do, because I have placed some food for them.

Re: Infrared wildlife filming at night
 

Hi Bo,

They didn't get any further than stating that the Everfocus is not compatible with the standard HD-SDI capture devices. So I sent it back and am looking for another solution.

Part of what I wanted to do with the Everfocus I will now do with my IR-converted GH3. And I'd like to know more about this one: marshall electronics cv500-m | B&H Photo Video

Will see if I can find one in Holland.

Re: Infrared wildlife filming at night
 

Hi
Excited to hear - and see how the Panasonic GH3 works. The bigger chip must give a better "light" sensitivity! Where did you buy the converted GH3?