oh, and...
 

and one last word regarding feedback--i didn't mean to put you off, ruth, regarding your feedback about feedback--it's just that it's another issue which has a broad diversity of opinion. some of our players feel we should be more more hard-nosed in our criticism, that our challenge has too much "happy talk" and not enough hard-line critique, and other people see feedback as a community-building experience, as a social experience, as a place for finding support for what they do.

some people have thicker skins than other people, and some folks have thinner skins about receiving criticism. sometimes a friendly wave of the hand is all that is left to say, as benjamin has pointed out....sometimes people post entries just to play along, to be part of it, not because they even want feedback--i certainly do that. sometimes, if your name is kevin, you make something really pretty, post it, and then try to hide it under a rock. et cetera.

we need to respect the diversity of players' motives for playing. for some people, it's feedback, for some people it's community, for some people, it's as simple as HAVE FUN. right, trond? i think feedback is multi-purposed. "feedback" may even be a misnomer, actually....

everyone has a little bit of a different emphasis on why they sign up, so it is something that just has to play out in the relational field, rather than in the field of rules, in my opinion.

now that i've re-opened that can o' worms myself!....

Meryem,

Okay, it seems there is such a diverse community, any form of feedback will be equally varied. And though comments are important to me, not so much to everyone else, necessarily. I like the concensus view so far of switching between self judging and outside judges. In the rounds where we do the judging, I'll note my most and least favorite aspects of the winning films, since that should be helpful feedback to the winners, anyway. Thanks for opening up this dialogue, it was helpful to discuss judging.

Ruth

I have trown in my point of view in this judging matter, and it's great to see we all are dedicated to the question. I just want to quote one of my "old" friends:
"You can't stay in your corner of the forest, waiting for others to come to you; you have to go to them sometimes".
Winnie the Pooh



Geir Inge

Hey Geir:

It puts a smile on my face imagining Winnie the Pooh speaking in Norwegian ;-).

Cato

And Benjamin.... We should be joined at the hip on these feedback threads... I'm just about the opposite than you are in that I think I'm more 80% positive and maybe 20% negative in my comments. So between the two of us, some constructive truths might be gleaned ;-). You and Chris have pointed out lots of good reasons why you may not comment on every thread... I won't worry about it next time!

Well,

I finally have a moment to get on the computer again and find this amazing thread.

So diverse meryem's head must be spinning. After reading them all I almost do not want to add to the fodder.

I have participated as a means to force myself to do more than just shoot wildlife footage.

I found I have learned more from all than the participants and the threads than all of the videos and shooting I have done.

In this regard I feel that I am a huge winner.

I think a few of you i should send coaching fees to!!

I do think picking a winner is of value. I picked my personal top three in all the challenges and had picked the winner among them 5 of 6 times.

I will bet others did the same.

In this regard the dv challenge method would seem to have merit .

I do like the idea of an outsider every other challenge.


In the end, I think whatever meryem decides to go with will be just fine with me.

And i will even title them correctly next year!!!!

I bet your Pesos that meryem never knew just how much she took on when she bit off this job!!!!!

Hi Dale:

Always glad to hear what you have to say. Thanks for adding to the fodder. I'm sure Meryem likes the input from everyone.

Here's to film-making in 2008.

Your friend,

Cat

Same here, I have learned so much from everyone.
Dale, you, me and every other member of the uwol family, we are all winners!
Every single one of us have improved our video skills during this year.

A huge THANK YOU to Meryem, Mat and Kevin for all the work you do to run the coolest challenge on the planet!


your friend
Trond

you got that right, dale. of course, it is largely my own fault. i keep tinkering with the darn thing and coming up with new moving parts. but hey, it keeps sucking in new players from all corners of the world, and that could not be more exciting to me.

from a personal standpoint, I am especially happy to see Turkey represented. my Turkish dad, if he were still alive, would be pretty psyched to see Turkey in the game....I was raised, partly, by my Turkish ane, so it is awesome to me that the energy of the game sucked in a turk. baklava all around!

Well you certainly got me in Meryem - and as I'm in, I might as well add my bit to the pot.
If we accept the fact that this is a challenge and therefore it needs to be judged, then it would probably be a good idea to make sure that everyone is playing by the same rules - players and judge/s included to make it as objective as possible.
A good starting point would be some to lay out the judging parameters (Meryem’s for example) as well as the theme and mission - then everyone would know from the start what is expected of them.
I, personally, would also appreciate knowing up front when the theme is announced, where the judge’s emphasis is going to be when judging (eg on sound, light, story, technique) rather than try to second-guess this, because it would force me into thinking about and experimenting with another angle or skill that I would normally not consider.
I have really valued the comments made by the judges this year and appreciate the time that it took them to do that.