Oh, I hope not. I rarely edit anything until I look at everything I have to work with. :)


On a personal note, not really a problem with the rules...
I won't be getting my new camera until mid-late February, so anything I shoot for the Feb posting will, more than likey, not be in the final film.
So I don't know how that plays with the rules.

Bob

Hi Per: Yes, there will still be 4 short-form challenges, business as usual...the only thing that will change about the short-form is the dates. I didn't post the short-form rules because everybody here knows them now.

Even Dale! Right, Dale?? (just teasing ya...)

Yes, Kevin, you can use 3 minutes -- the equivalent of one previous UWOL -- in your long-form film. I'll add that rule...

and yes, Jeff, you can put up EVERYTHING...this is about exposing your process, to get the feedback that you need to make it great.

and i prefer edited footage be uploaded for review - the purpose of this is to help you solve storytelling problems and critique your cinematography, audio, etc., and if we can't see your story, then we can't help you. you don't have to use these edits -- believe me, the first long-form piece that i ever edited had to be re-done several times --MAJOR re-edits will occur, sustaining the story is a big challenge.

and one reminder: anyone who feels like they would rather do it their way, *should* do it their way, on their own time. if you think that this method doesn't work with the way that you work, then you should find the work habits that suit you best and stick with them.

you can always shoot, edit, and deliver your own way, on your own time, and get great feedback from the regular "Under Water, Over Land" forum...no one has to play this game, but those that play, have to play by the same rules.

Well, should be interesting as my film will start probably in the Spring so the stuff I shoot in December-February will be somewhere towards the end. So, not sure if it'll all make sense but we'll see. :)

Hopefully in the next month or two, I can have a story locked and start shooting towards it.

Good evening,

Yes, Dale a chronic rule breaker, can be taught. Still have trouble with stop signs in the middle of the vast open prairies!!

I will be doing a full, probably two part, film on the Saskatchewan Falconry.

It will be from taking a a baby and nurturing it until it is a competant hunter and then Hunting with Falcons through an entire season at various gamebirds.

An outdoor tv station has seen some my other work and have been pushing me to produce a couple features for them, so if I like it I have a place for it already.

Storyboarding is my hardest endevor, scripting second. Well, to be honest its all kind of hard, but if it was easy what is the point?

Having it due in November presents a bit of a problem so I will start by getting winter footage starting as soon as possible through February 28th.

Posting progress four times should be no problem at all.

I will be taking on a two partners in the endevor: My wife to do some filming and critiquing, and Nairn Gillies , a naturally talented camera man with a creative soul.

I think the rules are fine and I am sure others will have some fine suggestions.

I even like the dates for submissions.

The posting of progress reports is interesting and I suspect on thread per person is best as one can go over more of the progress discussions and give more succinct suggestions.


We need to know what percent of a project can be prior footage.

I will be stepping up to HD come February so that ought to add some fun to the program as well.

I have the cameras out today and getting everything tuned up.

When can we start filming!!

Revved and Ready

Rule #12, the one Kevin pointed out, is now up...(it will move to a different spot in the list in the final form, but it was easier to tack it onto the end)

The one thing that is still chewing at me is whether we should have the short-form and the long-form contests posting at the same time. The way that I set up the dates, we could have short-form entries due the week before. Or we could have the whole thing, both short- and long- entries land at the same time - I can't decide whether that would be chaotic or convenient.

Thoughts?

I feel that you should keep the feedback times for the two contests separate to avoid complicating matters - especially for those doing both forms.

In my experience it takes a long time to give feedback to each contestant and when one is trying to do this before the judge selects the winner it is a pretty intensive time. After that the site is pretty dead till the next contest.

Now that we have even more time in between contests wouldn't that be a good time to deal with the long-form films and do more justice to their critiques?

The long-form films won't be judged until the end of the year so their critique is not as urgent as the short-form films each round and can basically be done anytime between each of their postings.

Just another small by-the-by - in S.A. we have limited bandwidth and it’s possible I may not have enough available to download all the additional movies. Consequently I may only be able to download and crit the long-form films the following month anyway.

posting
 

Meryem,

I personally weould like to have them at different times, perhaps by a month.

1. This allows me to focus on the short form with no worries.

2. I always need the full time frame to complete these, never quick and easy for me.

3. while I will be working all the time on the long form I would prefer not to have excess pressure for either one.

4. If they are both at a similar time I fear if things do not go just right I may end up in the shark tank. Want to stay out of there.

5. It also sprreads out the response time so one will not feel overwhelmed setting at the computer for continious hours as you would like to give a prompt response.

ok, i guess it never occurred to me that you all would want to do both! let me give the scheduling of both a bit more consideration....i don't want to prevent you people from fully torturing yourselves!

As others already have mentioned, I also would prefer the feedback for the long- and short form challenges should be separated by at least a week (or two) and not at the same time.
This would give the players time to concentrate about one film at a time.

Meryem I have a question.

What if the theme that someone has chosen for their long-form film does not prove viable after say six months of working on it - for whatever valid reason - be it unexpected, unfavourable conditions, subjects don't show-up, not working out the way they visualized it - what choices do they have?

Do they have to remain committed to the theme regardless or pull out or can they change their theme?

If so, how far down the line will you allow people to do this?

I can imagine quite a few people could re-think their themes at the beginning after laying out their ideas and getting responses and I can see that some folk could run into trouble even three months down the line after filming has started, but I am thinking too that someone could conceivably decide at the end to drop the film they have been submitting for comment all year because it is not working out for them and submit a film that no-one has seen before.

This is from Meryem's first post...

It seems unlikely to me that someone would do a complete 180 at the 11th hour, that would be a lot of work stuffed into a short time frame, but I do expect many of the projects to evolve in new, even radically new, directions, over time. As long as your film is following a logical, visible trajectory of development, I'll allow it. Since we have five posting opportunities to track it, I don't think this will be difficult to observe.

Marg,

Just a couple thoughts: On the short challenges I can see this kind of thing happening and it has with oftentimes the person changing their project, but still on theme, and a few tankers because of it.

On a long challenge such as this I suspect people will be doing something they arre passionate about and know just what they can do with it. I would actually not expect to see the problems we see in the short form.

I think Meryem has been pretty understanding of the various issues people have come up against and I am certain that will continue within reason.

Hope we can start shooting soon, I need winter footage that is presently available to me!!

Hi Dale: One of the distinguishing features of the long-form is that you can start shooting immediately, as soon as you sign up, and we are about 2 weeks away, so I hope you'll be able to get the footage that you have in mind.

Thanks for the replies. Just wanted to establish how far players would be locked into their topic once they had decided on it.

I agree with Dale...

...me too! Fully agree with Dale. I'm planning to take part in both challenges if possible...

My concern is this. I want to enter the long challenge, however, I will not be able to shoot any of the video till the end of May early Jun. So how can I turn in feedback footage in Feb and May? Bob

I am considering entering the long one and the point Bob brings up is quite valid.
What I want to do would not require filming until April and then on and off for a couple more months, followed by hours of editing. Although a lot of ground work would take place before April hide building etc, there would be little need for any filming.

I am sure entrants from all over the world with different season are going to encounter similar problems, maybe there is a need to look at the number of clips that need to be uploaded. Maybe an idea would be that you have to submit 3 out of 4 and you can opt out of which one you wish.

Just a though

Mick

no interviews, nothing? no effects work?

That's good feedback, but I really think it has more to do with your guys' thought process on whether this is right for you, or not. If I make these sorts of exceptions or complicated sets of rules, then it becomes my responsibility to track them.

That may be something to consider for the following year, but the first time around, it is important to keep the structure of things tight, while making periodic allowances for some specific circumstances.

("I'm getting married tomorrow and forgot that my wedding is on the same day as the deadline, can I post a day late??" Well, ok.)

After doing this for two years, you learn to keep things relatively simple. Or lose your mind. Whichever comes first!

hey UWOLers...just a note on the long-form sign-up...

the sign-up thread will appear during the last week of December - i am putting it off a bit, because of the DVC/UWOL charity round.

but keep in mind that if you shoot something for the charity round, 3 minutes' worth is also eligible to be included in your long-form, so if you sign up for the charity round (sign ups are open and ongoing), then you can still be acquiring footage for your long-form piece, even before you sign-up for it.

since the theme is COLD, many of you should be able to do double-duty....