Re: What is it? by Cat Russell - UWOL 36
 

It's certainly a ghost issue as the ghost image shows the birds wings in different positions unless they are not flapping their wings.

It's like the camera does one scan and then goes back to get the second scan after the birds have moved.

Shouldn't be happening if you're shooting progressive I would think.

I know there's something about my camera shoots interlaced and then does something to turn it to progressive footage but I've never really bothered to understand it.

Something weird is going on. You shouldn't have such bad ghosting going on. Glad it's getting better so at least we're making progress.

Re: What is it? by Cat Russell - UWOL 36
 

Hi Vishal: I'm happy to walk you through what we are discussing about ghosting issues in my video if you want to weigh in. It seems to be a post processing thing I'm doing when for the longest time I thought it was my camera! You might have the perfect solution to what I'm doing :)

Re: What is it? by Cat Russell - UWOL 36
 

Hi Kevin:

I so appreciate your insights. Going deep here, the only settings on my camera for shooting video is full HD, 1440 and Standard. I actually have no idea if it's shooting progressive or not. I set progressive at the stage of processing the raw TOD file.

Fire any ideas?

For grins I'll process the raw footage as interlaced to see what happens. If it works, then perhaps the deinterlacing can enter in at the final processing of the movie. (?)

Re: What is it? by Cat Russell - UWOL 36
 

Hey Cat,
Glad to hear you are getting closer to solving your ghosting issues. What camera is it you are using again?
As Trond had suggested, maybe uploading the clip of the birds to dropbox would allow a few of us to try some different things & help you work out what is going on.

Re: What is it? by Cat Russell - UWOL 36
 

Hi Bryce:

Will do. I'll post a link here when I have it uploaded. Who knew the worst shot in my entire video entry would become so... famous... infamous?

Thanks for your interest everyone. I sincerely appreciate the help.

Is it okay to say what camera I am using? I didn't want to give a bad rap on a brand that millions enjoy using. Also, the problems most like are in the post processing, but also keep in mind the camera shipped damaged and had to be returned for repair. Straight out of the box, trying to focus on a bird on a wire, the best I could do was get a double image where the wires were about a foot apart. Not a great start to a serious (for me anyway) investment.

Re: What is it? by Cat Russell - UWOL 36
 

I'm sure everyone here is more than happy to help out however we can Cat.
Would the camera be a JVC brand by any chance? I don't think there is anything wrong with most of the cameras around today, but you do need to know the camera well in order to get the best from it. Maybe there is something that you are missing that will make all the difference.
When you import your footage, how do you go about it? Do you follow a procedure recommended by the camera manufacturer, or simply pull the files off the card, or cameras drive directly to a folder on your computer? There maybe something special needed in how the footage is transferred??
Anyway, glad to help. At least i hope i can be of help!! :)
Bryce

Re: What is it? by Cat Russell - UWOL 36
 

And the focussing issue has been fixed for sure?

Re: What is it? by Cat Russell - UWOL 36
 

Cat, a very powerful piece of work, with excellent use of the commentary and rhythm, with though provoking images and music.
I liked the use of the timelapses to show the movement of the atmosphere, and the use graphics and music to provide tension.
Super!

Re: What is it? by Cat Russell - UWOL 36
 

Cat,

I shoot birds all the time as you know. Ghosting is always a problem. I have seen it in progressive and interlaced.
If your program has a place to turn off the resampling that will often solve the problem.

Even with interlaced I do that and I lower the play rate to 75% and I get clear proper wing beats.

It is also better to shoot at a slower shutter speed. I shoot 60 to 120 max for ariel footage.

Re: What is it? by Cat Russell - UWOL 36
 

Hi everyone --

A bit of catching up to do!

First, a bit more trial and I've seemed to hit something that works (for now). Digging into the manual I've learned that the camera films in i not p. I've also discovered that if I don't deinterlace on processing, it makes it much worse. Changing the codec again has helped a bit more.

Attachment 1 is the H264 version I thought did the trick at first but although vastly improved from my original version it still ghosts slightly.

Attachment 2 is an MP4 codec which seems to work.

Why this is I have no idea. The settings for both codecs are the same. I'm still uploading the raw TOD file to drop box (2 hours more), but I'm happy to cut it if you think I'm on the right track.

Now specifically:

Bryce: yes, you're right on every point. My camera is a JVC, and knowing my camera well is a big factor here. Digging up the manual has reminded me that there are manual settings I had forgotten to look into and will make a point to get more familiar with them before next challenge. Thanks for all the suggestions and willing to help in this!

Kevin: I think the focusing issues have been fixed. I use auto and manual focus interchangeably all the time and in some cases, I'm not overly thrilled with what I've been able to do in manual mode where no matter what I do it just doesn't seem to hone in. The camera? Maybe. Most likely it's me though. Not completely sure!

Paul: Thanks for the fun comments and I'm very glad you liked it!

Dale: I know all too well you shoot birds and a master you are at it. Thanks so much for weighing in your thoughts and I will look into and try out everything you suggest. I have no idea if I can turn off resampling but I'll try and find out. Perhaps inherently this was the difference between the H264 and MP4 codecs in post processing that made the difference? Thanks also for the shutter speed tip in how you shoot birds in the air. I have a lot to work on between now and next February!

Thanks you guys! I had no idea joining in on the UWOL forum would have such instrumental consequences! I feel so honored!

Re: What is it? by Cat Russell - UWOL 36
 

Seems like you have got some good help already. :)
Uwol and dvinfo community is great!

Re: What is it? by Cat Russell - UWOL 36
 

Hi Trond:

You're right. I'll cut the upload to dropbox, then.

Cheers!

Re: What is it? by Cat Russell - UWOL 36
 

Wow Cat,
That's a vast improvement! How does the video look now? Is it smooth when the birds fly by?

Re: What is it? by Cat Russell - UWOL 36
 

Hey Bryce:

I think it looks just fine and I will upload a revised version after the voting so you can see for yourself :)

Here's a the same frame as above, but from the version that's currently in my video. I'm not proud of that!

Re: What is it? by Cat Russell - UWOL 36
 

Cat, I will probable be driving out there this summer (now that I am retired I don't have to fly). Every time I drive there I do all back roads, and always a different route. I turn each trip into an adventure, hitting NWR's and State Parks all along the way. And of course shooting video. I will let you know when, it is usually around the 4th of July. Bob

Re: What is it? by Cat Russell - UWOL 36
 

Nice Bob:

Looking forward to connecting up. Really excited, actually! It sounds like a wonderful way to do things, but... RMNP on July 4? Us and 3 million other people looking at one deer? ;-)

Until then, let's work on Kevin and see if he can join us then and make it 3 million and 3. :)

Re: What is it? by Cat Russell - UWOL 36
 

That's great Cat,
Have you done the same for all the footage? Just wondering if it all looks that much better.

Re: What is it? by Cat Russell - UWOL 36
 

Cat it looks like you're getting you problems sorted out which is good. Have you ever run mediainfo on your clip to see what the properties are?

Gordon

Re: What is it? by Cat Russell - UWOL 36
 

Huge differences between the original and the new version! Great improvements.

Re: What is it? by Cat Russell - UWOL 36
 

Sorry that we kind of hijacked your feedback thread Cat but this is a perfect example why our UWOL challenge and this forum are not only still relevant but essential.

I've seen so many forums where people are afraid to ask questions because they feel stupid or the response will be RTFM! that they eventually stop visiting and in the end stop learning and growing.

We are a welcome oasis in the desert of selfishness and indifference.

Let's keep the momentum going for February!!!

Re: What is it? by Cat Russell - UWOL 36
 

Hi Kevin:

My feedback thread can be hijacked anytime! I'm with you all the way and looking forward to February. Let me be a testimony to anyone who feels shy about learning this stuff... it's worth it 1,000 x over to ask about what you need to know. It's obvious people on this forum really support a willing heart to learn. No shame in that!

Did you see Bob's comment? He's driving out to Colorado and RMNP this coming July and we are planning to meet up. It's yours for the taking too if you can. With 6 months of planning, perhaps I can rope in Meryem too. Just consider it a trial run to the real deal next October?

Hi Bryce:

I've reworked all "animal" footage taken with the JVC, especially the birds of course. The sky/clouds seemed to do okay. I'm rendering a new final now. All the shots are cleaner if you really study them, but the birds obviously really stand out as an improvement. Funny, it's all of about 8 seconds of the entire clip, but worth it!

Hey Gordon:
I haven't used MediaInfo. Is it a free download from the web? If you find it useful, I most likely will too.

Hi Trond:
Yup, see what you guys encouraged me to do? Much better, nest pas? :)

Re: What is it? by Cat Russell - UWOL 36
 

I usually have a week or two around the 4th of July off.

Might see if Karina wants to take a road trip

Re: What is it? by Cat Russell - UWOL 36
 

Now you're talking ... :) ... And remember to bring that spare camera you mentioned I could try out ;-)

Re: What is it? by Cat Russell - UWOL 36
 

Hi Cat
Yes mediainfo is a free download. I don't use it a lot but it can help a person to get information of a video clip when needed. I was doing a little seaching on the net on TOD files and it's interesting. Someday maybe you could up load or send a short file straight off your camera for a person to play around with.

Gordon

Re: What is it? by Cat Russell - UWOL 36
 

Hi Cat and I'm so glad you're back.
I have missed your nice comments and your films.

You are spot on the theme and I give you a dice of 6 for originality.
At first I thought there was too much info, but given as a ryhme I think it works fine.
No offend, but I think you can benefit from having less stills and more live video.
I'm not sure I can add more then allready been said.
It will be a tough round between the top three this time.
Thank you for sharing and hope to see you next round.
Cheers!

Re: What is it? by Cat Russell - UWOL 36
 

Cat,

I think we're only going to spend a week in the UK for the UWOL meetup so that increases the chances I can get to Colorado next year.

It'll suck that the elk will still be in velvet but we'll make it work.

I'll bring a HPX250 for you to play with.:)

Re: What is it? by Cat Russell - UWOL 36
 

Hi Geir:

Great insight and I think you're correct with no offense taken. Less stills and more video would work better. All this is good feedback for next time!

Kevin:

I'm simply delighted! I'll connect up with Meryem and let her know what is brewing for July. And thanks for considering bringing along the spare camera.

Re: What is it? by Cat Russell - UWOL 36
 

Hi Cat

this was definitely an original and well put together video to bring something unique to UWOL. Great concept and information that got included.

I would agree with Geir about the still images - it felt like the video shots flowed really nicely with a rhythm to the movement along with the words, but then the stills felt jarring by contrast. Perhaps zooming in a little and panning, or otherwise animating them may have avoided the switch from dynamic to static images. And the freeze frame at 0:50 felt the same, if you're using Adobe you could possibly time warp to stretch the clip as the speed winds down but doesn't quite stop. The stills still served the story, it just seemed like the video portion better matched the vocal rhythm and music.

I'll preface this next one with, to a foreign ear, I felt the delivery could be a little different for the VO for this piece. I thought it would benefit from less modality within each word, helping to highlight the modality across each phrase / sentence. I guess that translates to it sometimes sounded like multiple words within a sentence were emphasized, but maybe reduce that to one or two. It helps to focus the listener in a deliberate way, picking where to place the inflections. This is me nit picking, and I can't even find the best way to describe it. It's also coming from a speaker of the laziest English dialect to exist. That said I think the cadence worked well, it was timed in with the editing and really propelled the story along with the music.

An enjoyable piece that gets you thinking, thanks for sharing.

Re: What is it? by Cat Russell - UWOL 36
 

Hey Andrew:

Points well made and very constructive. The insights on the modality of the VO phrasing is really insightful and something I would not have considered-- even sitting in front of this video for a year!

Cheers to all for your feedback. I feel like you've equipped me to be very much improved next round. How cool is that?