Meryem, I think there's a fundamental question to be asked, something like, Who is the client (in this exercise)? Let's have a look ...
I have the impression, rightly or wrongly, that we, nature videographers, come in 4 categories (overlapping but not so much they don't recognise themselves)...

1. Outdoor activists who go where they want & shoot what they like to shoot.
2. Indoor activists who would rather do an artistic editing job using "material" from many sources including their own.
3. A rare breed who can do 1 & 2 above.
4. A less rare breed who can't do either but would like to learn from others and from experience (like me).

If No.4 is to benefit he will only do so if No's 1,2 & 3 get room to do their individual things and put them on display. That way your 4 sets of clients get to contribute and benefit from the experience of practising and sharing.

So, in seeking answers to your 4 questions I would broadly recommend that you give priority to flexibility for 2, 3, & 4 and No. 1 will turn up to be creative ...

"Under the Rainbow" might be a suitably vague title

it's an interesting question, but i think that our "client" base is, perhaps, not so narrow...anyone who signs up is welcome. we won't discriminate on the basis of politics, camera size, or hair color.

is trying to make something look beautiful considered activism? beauty, truth. truth, beauty. i'd rather be beautiful than right.

i think it was dale who said it best, that he was happy to see a video challenge that fit his genre. loosely speaking, the DV Challenge seems to attract more narrative videographers, this will be geared more towards the documentary set, i believe. but these categorizations are very loose. i made a doc-styled video for a DV Challenge. others have as well. i'm sure that we will generate narratives along the way.

maybe another way to consider it is, the DV Challenge tends to attract people who want to craft an idea (give it shape, that is...narrative form leaps to mind), this will be more geared towards following an idea, wherever the musk ox decides to lead...

anyway, this is waxing a bit too philosophical. i'm really about entertaining suggestions for running a contest that pleases the participants, rather than examining its base. everybody who plays, wins.

heh, thanks. I am actually pretty embarrassed at my lack of knowledge/skill filming topside (I usually shoot just enough to frame my U/W stuff).

At least underwater I can claim the particles/lack of light/anything else caused me to mess up the shot :)

I am shooting the Sony FX1 and Sony PC-350 underwater right now.

So guys......do we have a plan for this now???

I think Meryem was giving it 10 days for rumination, and that seems like we should hear something definitive by about Tuesday next week....

chris is correct. i posted the first inquiry on november 27 and am hoping to hear from as many interested parties as possible in a week-10 days, to see if there's interest. so far, so good! people have been contributing some very good ideas, which i'll incorporate as we move it along.


not everyone is the DVinfo addict that i am, so we have to give the more infrequent readers a chance to chime in. so you can expect a more formulated set of guidelines to appear next week.

there are two other questions i'll throw out there....

1) we need a "wall of shame" of sorts...what sort of consquences for those who sign up but don't follow through. i love the "wall of shame"--it's brilliant. it's this hideously terrifying threat which means next to nothing--and yet, it's mere virtual existence was often enough to kick me into gear. maybe it's my warped out upbringing, but it was motivation enough for me to complete the challenges that i signed up for, and also to think twice about signing up for the ones which i knew i did not have time for....

so, any ideas on this one, which would be appropriately UWOL-ish?

the tar pit?

the burning sands?

the steaming cauldron of losers?

any ideas? i'm much happier assigning prizes than shame. but it does seem to juice the competition a bit.

2) i think the hosting issue merits a bit more attention. on one hand, one location, a universal setting appeals. on the other hand, i can hardly stand what uploads to google or youtube look like...i mean, here we are trying to make footage beautiful, using all our latest toys, and then to settle for that quality offends.

any more thoughts on this?

a pillory will be nice Meryem :-) Maybe loosers could be banned for a period to sign in for the contest?

About the video, size and quality should be defined before the contest. I think most people shoot in DV some in HD. Some shoot in aspect ratio 4:3 others 16:9. Fileformat, -wmv, -mov, -flash. It's important to make rules for this.

In the DVC challenge, everyone formatted and posted films in the format they wanted. If they used only one type file, they risk not having other look at an appreciate their films... Point is, its all a part of our "craft", and we learn to live with various issues in each project. I vote to leave it up to the individual if he wants to do it in Flash, QT, or Windows Media, or provide links to all three.

A limit on running time is definitely warranted for the sake of the judge or judges..

I'm In!
 

I agree that there shouldn't be rules to posting finished product. Personally, I would post mine on YouTube - that way I KNOW everyone could see it, but then I'd post better versions in AVI and/or MOV on my website for people to be able to see higher quality.

About people disagreeing with topics - having to do a film about mountains but living in the flats is half the challenge, i think. Some contests would be easier than others for different people. As long as the topics weren't too narrow, I think it would be fun to figure out how YOU or I could give a different treatment to the same topic.

On the part of monthly/bimonthly/etc... Personally I think I'd only be up for every other month. however, that just means if it is a monthly contest I would only enter it every other month ;-)

Timing for the first one - well, Dec has already started now, but i guess if it was 2-3 week contest then there's still time to get it going. I'm still hoping that DVC happens in Jan and not Dec.

lisa makes a very good point. even if we centralize it, there is nothing to stop contestants from posting alternative better-looking links. we could have both--a required link to youtube or google and then the option of posting all the other options you want. that way everyone can view everyone's work, and viewers also have the option of viewing higher rez or better-looking versions.

her point also got me thinking that i should sign up one UWOL account, release the password to participants during submissions week and then change the password on the day submissions are due (so that no one tampers with the account). that way we could have hosting multiple submissions all in one place. one-stop shop for maximum ease of use. it would certainly make it easy for viewers.

what do you all prefer, google video or youtube? i have not used either yet for hosting my own work. i have my own websites and also use ourmedia/archive.org for public docs. the trouble with ourmedia is the lack of ownership over the product which is placed permanently in the public domain. there's no way to delete it, so i don't recommend it. what about the other, more popular public sites? any feedback on which is preferable?

I think this whole thing is a great idea Meryem. I just found this thread cause I was out of circulation earlier this week.

Of course, being in Texas I love the "UWOL Challenge" name idea because as Ken put it, it sounds like you're saying "You all". Hehe, clever.

I would likely participate since I love capturing the great outdoors in HD.

The idea of using a single account on a web video sharing site and then changing the password at submission deadline is brilliant. It would lock out late submissions as well.

And finally, I love this quote...

regards,

-gb-

look at the big fish we netted! welcome aboard, greg--it's good to have a go-to wrangler with an interest in our contest, to keep things civil....

i want to use my canon HV10 to do the "making of" version of whatever you produce, so that i can see how your XDCAM performs in the field. i'm curious about that camera, since discovery channel certified it....as i'm sure many others are as well....

Another suggestion for title

" Out the Window "

I'd love to be part of this as well. Sounds like allot of fun. Course, why couldn;t you have suggested this when the temps were about 50 degrees warmer here in Iowa. :)

ah, senor railsback...at last we meet! you're on my short list for potential judges! there's no backing out now....

of course, i'm more than thrilled to have you participate as well!

i am more and more liking the idea of enlisting a different guest judge for each contest. that way, we get the benefit of a range of input into our contest. and we spread the responsibility around. if we go with me + a celebrity guest judge format, with a certain weighting towards the opinion of the guest judge, then the judging stays fresh. no sedimentation of opinion. also, that allows our guest judge to be a participant when he/she is not judging.

brendan, i like "out the window" quite a bit. very promising and not climate-dependent. and so many interesting windows from which to choose. does anyone know where i can rent a submarine?

keep 'em coming and spread the word....

Name!
 

If your still looking for a name, how about:

"OVER & UNDER SHOOTOUT"

Using a picture of a camcorder where the lens morphs into the barrels of a double barrel shotgun, or the shotgun morphs into a camcorder. I'm sure we have some talented artists out there.

Mike

you're reading my mind, mike. i started working on a little animation for this last night. but there are definitely better animators than i am, so perhaps we should open it up....

what i discovered, though, in playing with the animation, was that i am getting attached to the name "The UWOL Challenge" because it allies our contest both with chris' work here and with the DV Challenge which came before it. and it covers the planet, which is our muse.

so the name is officially set. if there's anyone who wants to take a crack at an animated version, please do. if selected, it will be uploaded to our submissions page. there's no prize for the winner beyond the glory. we'll find a way to acknowledge you on the page as the artist. this isn't a contest, just a chance to show off your skills. the requirements are: it has to incorporate "The UWOL Challenge" preferably with some mention of "Under Water, Over Land" for clarifying purposes. it should also clock in at 10 MB or less in size because most title uploads seem bound by that parameter.

so, if anyone has any free time on their hands, have at it!

I'm confused, you thought of the shotgun/camcorder, camcorder/shotgun animation based on "The UWOL Challenge" name, or is it a different animation?

Come on animators, jump in here. We need a good one.

A possible name...

"Otherwise Hidden"

It has appearenty heen decided.

Mike

Meryem, not sure how I got on your short list but it's certainly an honor to be on it.

I'd love to see this take off and become a regular thing for us nature freaks.

I'm not into taking a self portrait using only the light of my oven or shots of peoples toes or other things like that I had to do when I was in college. :)

There's so many things that can be done with this. I'm glad I'm getting in on the ground floor. :)

glad to hear that you're willing to lend a paw, i mean, hand.

okay, so the other news is that the DVC challenge time frame has just been announced, and it will run this month. which is perfect for us, actually. because we can run the UWOL challenge starting on January 1st, with the official sign-up running the week before, maybe plus an extra day or two to account for the holidays.

if we run our contest every other month, which seems to be a general consensus, that means we can start it in the new year and run it beginning the 1st of every other month (Jan., March, May, July, Sept., Nov.). i would like a little predictability and regularity to the schedule. so we'll run six of these in the next year. if it gains traction, we can increase the regularity. it's always easier to add things than to scale them back. so for now, let's make this the guideline and see how it goes.

thanks for forebearing with me while i think out loud, everybody. we are pretty close to putting together official guidelines, i think, now that a few things are resolving themselves.

and no, mike, i can't say that i had shotguns in mind when i was playing with the animation. i was thinking more along the lines of rainbows and lollipops and care bears. but that's just me!

actually, i'm still going to work on the animation that i started, to have something in the event that no one else rises to the task. (due to copyright restrictions, i'm sadly forced to eliminate the care bears.) my animation is not super-complicated. i'm hoping someone out there has the skills to morph a turtle into the planet or something groovy.

That sounds great Meryem! I can't wait to start on it.
Lets just hope that I get a tripod and some more tapes for Christmas. Or I might be in a bad way! :)

~Gabriel

This sounds great....I'm glad theres a time scale. These things can be so difficult to organise.

Is there any shortlist of potential topics yet ???

will someone send gabriel a DV tape, for heaven's sake?? the lad needs a patron!

as for the tripod, the poor man's version is a beanbag or small pillow. you can do some pretty steady shots, even pans, that way....gotta improvise!

i have a topics list but am undecided. now that i know we're running six of these, i need time to consider the big picture. which six are in, which are best left for another day....

Well if you need a hand with anything at all....then give me a shout and I'll do what I can.

Same here.
Let me know if you want any wildlife and nature stills or anything to incorporate into a banner or whatever.
I'm stoked for this to get started! :)

haha, thanks Meryem, I should be able to make it through. I do have a cheep tripod, I just wish I had a nicer one.

As far as the topics go, are you going to announce them before the challenge? or are you going to wait until after people have signed up? Or is htis still part of your list of things to decide on?

If you need some northwest footage/photos, I could try as hard as possible to help you with that. Sorry that I can not be of much more use then that.

~Gabriel

Count me in...

fabulous. gabriel and DSE facing off in the UWOL Challenge. it's more than i could have hoped for. let the games begin!

i'll post guidelines this afternoon.

If I recall, DSE is a skydiver, and will likely wrap up the over land aspects pretty well......is he Scuba certified too ?

Hi Meryem
Great idea, count me (an Spanish wilderness) in as much as i can

One idea, perhaps when things had ruled for a while could be to make a kind of DVD or similar with the winner or finalist films. This could be a very good award if there is a sponsor somewhere (who knows?). Also, all the selected films could be presented in one or various events. I know is anticipate events but i have the conviction that so many points of view could make a great series.

Fernando

we have so many talented shooters here, i don't think anything is wrapped up! prepare to be awed. i am!

and bienvenido, fernando! it's great to see some new names popping up in the UWOL forum. spain has some beautiful landscape. looking forward to your interpretation of it.

i do have a few ideas about distribution for willing players, but let's shoot some footage first....

Meryem,

with so many high profile shooters its almost scarey to post anything!!

Kidding aside, this seems to be inspiring a lot of interest!!!


Question will be how long will the time frame be for the film, how large can the file be and will we all post in equivalent resolution so that true comparisons/judgements may be made??

Guidelines are here!
 

Guidelines for The UWOL Challenge

The mission of the UWOL Challenge is to encourage outdoor and nature video enthusiasts to the develop their skills by participating in regular contests.

1. The UWOL Challenge will run 6x this year, beginning January 1. It will also run in March, May, July, September, and November, commencing on the 1st of each month. A fresh sign-up thread will be posted the week before the challenge begins. Contestants will be required to sign up for each challenge separately. Once the thread closes, no new players will be admitted for that Challenge.

2. On the first of the month, a topic or prompt will be posted. Players will have three weeks to shoot, edit, and post their videos online. This gives two full weekends for participants to take travel to exotic and difficult-to-reach locations with their gear. Submissions should be 2-3 minutes in length. Entries exceeding the 3-minute limit can be posted on the site but will be disqualified from the judging. Credits are excluded from the 3-minute limit.

3. All material must be original and shot for the purpose of being judged in this contest. All music must be fully licensed. If you use copyrighted materials (music or other copyrighted works), be prepared to show us proof that you own the right to use it. Without proof, we will remove your video from the site. You have the option of providing us with an image-only version, in the event that we are forced to remove it, since our goal is to enable players to make beautiful video images and to develop good production practices.

4. You retain the rights to your video.

5. We will be using this home page to post our videos:

http://www.youtube.com/group/uwolchallenge

During submission week, the password to the page will be released to the players only, who will upload their videos for the judging. These videos will be the judging copies, however players are also encouraged to post to their personal websites or other websites where they may be able to enhance image quality over what Youtube provides. This way, players can offer viewers a range of formats, file sizes, etc. At the deadline, the password will be changed, submissions will be locked, and no new submissions will be admitted. Our contest will be dependent on honor among the participants who will be given the password. Any attempts to delete or alter anyone else's submission constitutes grounds for permanent dismissal from the contest. *IMPORTANT NOTE* It's your responsibility to be sure that I have your most direct, up-to-date e-mail address, so that I can forward you the password to the Youtube page during submissions week. A reminder will be posted on the sign-up thread, but if I don't have your e-mail address, I can't send you the required upload clearance.

Follow this link for more information on Youtube's uploading guidelines. Note that file size is limited to 100 MB:

http://youtube.com/t/help_cat05

6. A new guest judge will be enlisted to help with the judging each month. I will pick the top 3-5 videos (depending on the number of submissions we receive), and the guest judge will be invited to pick the final winner. The guest judge will also have the opportunity to select up to 2 additional finalists to the named selections. The names of finalists will be posted, and a winner will be selected from among the finalists.

7. Winners will be awarded a prize package, to be determined.

8. These guidelines are subject to revision.


----------------------

last chance for feedback before i solicit a wrangler to turn this into a sticky....

Nice Job Meryem.... Looks good. But how do we get to see your great work ??

Can we use royalty free music ?

Don't see why not as long as you licensed it.

It shouldn't be any problem Joey, I'm going to use Smartsound Music.

Cinescore or Smartsound here....